The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

[Maverick09]

After having played Out of the Park Baseball (OOTP) for the first time this year, I couldn't help but notice the huge disreptancy in the trade logic and player management between the OOTP and The Show.

With the way that the current off-season has been going in the real MLB and the Giancarlo Stanton trade, it's become very clear that huge contracts (and their perceived liability) are not taken into consideration in The Show. Great players can be traded for top-notch prospects regardless of their contracts. The strategy with managing budgets and player salaries is not very present in The Show.

You really have to think twice before giving a huge long term contract to a player in OOTP since the player may regress and become literally "untradable" in future years. The contract is literally seen as a liability. The budget management is a major strategy element and team building mechanic in OOTP.

How likely is this level of trade logic and team management to make it's way into The Show? I know the fracnhise team is pretty small at SCEA and this seems like a big code-intensive undertaking. IMO it could potentially add a huge layer of strategy to the Franchise game mode.

OOTP also does not have absolute player ratings; they fluctuate according to the different scouts which makes it difficult to determine who the actual good players are in the league (you've got to dig down into their stats). I wonder if this could be an approach that is introduced into the The Show in future years.

[CaseIH]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

After having played Out of the Park Baseball (OOTP) for the first time this year, I couldn't help but notice the huge disreptancy in the trade logic and player management between the OOTP and The Show.

With the way that the current off-season has been going in the real MLB and the Giancarlo Stanton trade, it's become very clear that huge contracts (and their perceived liability) are not taken into consideration in The Show. Great players can be traded for top-notch prospects regardless of their contracts. The strategy with managing budgets and player salaries is not very present in The Show.

You really have to think twice before giving a huge long term contract to a player in OOTP since the player may regress and become literally "untradable" in future years. The contract is literally seen as a liability. The budget management is a major strategy element and team building mechanic in OOTP.

How likely is this level of trade logic and team management to make it's way into The Show? I know the fracnhise team is pretty small at SCEA and this seems like a big code-intensive undertaking. IMO it could potentially add a huge layer of strategy to the Franchise game mode.

OOTP also does not have absolute player ratings; they fluctuate according to the different scouts which makes it difficult to determine who the actual good players are in the league (you've got to dig down into their stats). I wonder if this could be an approach that is introduced into the The Show in future years.

Yeah OOTP is the way to go for the most realistic experience, if you prefer just being manager or GM. I struggle with what to do, I still enjoy actually playing, but Im also very OCD about stats and realism, so I cant decide if I want to go to OOTP exclusively and give up MLBTS altogether, or continue to hope that MLBTS improves in alot of things.
The Show plays a great game, but if your into stats, then its not quite so good. Plus OOTP has all the Baseball leagues, and even winter ball.
So Im really leaning on going with OOTP this yr only. I cant really justify buying both games anymore, but Im hoping MLB18 takes a major step forward with franchise mode, since it all I play, but I got a feeling they are going more the route of online gamers, and franchise may not be a top priority like it once was.

[Maverick09]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Yeah OOTP is the way to go for the most realistic experience, if you prefer just being manager or GM. I struggle with what to do, I still enjoy actually playing, but Im also very OCD about stats and realism, so I cant decide if I want to go to OOTP exclusively and give up MLBTS altogether, or continue to hope that MLBTS improves in alot of things.
The Show plays a great game, but if your into stats, then its not quite so good. Plus OOTP has all the Baseball leagues, and even winter ball.
So Im really leaning on going with OOTP this yr only. I cant really justify buying both games anymore, but Im hoping MLB18 takes a major step forward with franchise mode, since it all I play, but I got a feeling they are going more the route of online gamers, and franchise may not be a top priority like it once was.

I'm in the same boat, I love the gameplay aspect of The Show, but I struggle to play Franchise mode after having played OOTP. OOTP really mimics the management aspect of baseball seen in reality. It's a challenge though to include such complicated things into a game while keeping it approachable to people who are new and casual to baseball; so I understand why SCEA might shy away from implementing a more realistic player management system.

The thing I find the most interesting with OOTP is the lack of player ratings. This is really a concept that I would like to see added to modern sports games. In reality, there is no consensus as to who is a good player, and who is a bad player in absolute terms. Everyone has their own opinion based on the eyeball test, or on stats, it's completely subjective.

This different approach would definetly shake things up, and would open doors for new concepts in franchise mode, whether it be Madden, The Show, or any other sports game.

[bronxbombers21325]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Trade logic in the show has never been good. If you don't use 30 team control you end up with some really messed up things going on.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Ah, yes, the first OOTP experience. Once you get a taste of a true sim like that, it's difficult to see other games measure up to it from an AI/logic/customization standpoint.

A more intricate front office module in franchise mode is the next frontier for MLB The Show. Cash in trades, adjusting contract amounts by year--escalating/de-escalating, bonuses, different types of contract options triggered by different events, trade AI factoring in financials, deeper farm systems, amateur stats for scouted players, more variation in progression/regression (modeled in OOTP as a "talent change randomness" slider), minor league contracts, minor league contracts with major league options, retired players entering the coaching pool, posting from foreign leagues. I am probably forgetting quite a few.

To insinuate that MLB The Show should basically have all of the graphics of the console series and all the logic and depth of a computer game like OOTP is probably unfair, but incorporation of some of these things--and less focusing on adding arcade-y elements like "quirks"--would be a big help.

[Benz87]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Playing OOTP has essentially ruined The Shows franchise for me and has made it difficult to entrench myself in such a shallow team management system. Pretty much the reason I play the show strictly online (DD) and get my franchise management fix from OOTP for the past few years.

[Bard]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Playing OOTP has essentially ruined The Shows franchise for me and has made it difficult to entrench myself in such a shallow team management system. Pretty much the reason I play the show strictly online (DD) and get my franchise management fix from OOTP for the past few years.

Honestly, OOTP has ruined The Show for me. I am a huge baseball fan, and I love being able to be in complete control over my team. I am a simmer, and only play maybe 5 games in a 162 game season these days due to time and honestly interest.

The Show needs something big, or a lot of things we have been wanting for a long time for me to buy this year. I have already sold back The Show 17, and am having a blast with my Switch and PC gaming.

We shall see though, but this would be my first year ever not buying day one.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Caulfield]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

trades we dont always agree with are going to happen even IRL
I'm curious for those that 30 team control to over-ride trades they dont approve of,
what would you do if a Andrew McCutchen for Crick/Reynolds or a
Gerritt Cole for Feliz/Moran/Musgrove/Martin comes down, do you deny it to happen?

[Benz87]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

trades we dont always agree with are going to happen even IRL

I'm curious for those that 30 team control to over-ride trades they dont approve of,

what would you do if a Andrew McCutchen for Crick/Reynolds or a

Gerritt Cole for Feliz/Moran/Musgrove/Martin comes down, do you deny it to happen?

Veto. If I was a PIT fan I’d be triggered on these trades. I can’t believe they settled for so little. Two perennial all stars traded for prospects who grade out no higher than average players at best.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Maverick09]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Veto. If I was a PIT fan I’d be triggered on these trades. I can’t believe they settled for so little. Two perennial all stars traded for prospects who grade out no higher than average players at best.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

I agree, although they did trade both players off of their peak years. They surely would have gotten a kings ransom a few years ago at their best.

Both players are also due to make a lot of money in the coming years, which diminishes their value on the trade market. Teams want cheap, controllable players, which OOTP does a great job of recognizing. Even though both players are very talented, they get dinged by the AI due to their contracts and lack of team control, which The Show does not take into account.

[Armor and Sword]

The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Running my franchises with 30 team control is a must.

I am able to create a fun, and realistic franchise atmosphere with trade stories and a more robust free agency/Winter Meetings phase.

Yeah it takes some work and some house rules and random number stuff. But I make it work.

I would love nothing more than an OOTP front office atmosphere but I am also realistic and know that will never happen.

I think The Show does a great job for a console sports game. It has taken a lot from MVP 2005 and also has plenty of real contract rules, rule 5 etc etc.

Now if they could get the CPU AI really humming for single offline franchise players that would almost be enough for me to be really happy.

On the diamond though this game is second to none.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[GlennN]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Interesting that some of you mentioned the absence of ratings in OOTP v. The Show. I actually enjoy the extra ratings in OOTP v. The Show. Power and Gap Power are not the same thing in OOTP. Speed and Stealing are also not the same thing in OOTP. I like those differences to further differentiate players.

[gamer052001]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

If we could pay extra to somehow play our OOTP games on The Show, that would be amazing. Linking our franchises together and using OOTP ratings on The Show. I know it will never happen, but I can dream!

[bobzyauncle]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

Running my franchises with 30 team control is a must.

I am able to create a fun, and realistic franchise atmosphere with trade stories and a more robust free agency/Winter Meetings phase.

Yeah it takes some work and some house rules and random number stuff. But I make it work.

I would love nothing more than an OOTP front office atmosphere but I am also realistic and know that will never happen.

I think The Show does a great job for a console sports game. It has taken a lot from MVP 2005 and also has plenty of real contract rules, rule 5 etc etc.

Now if they could get the CPU AI really humming for single offline franchise players that would almost be enough for me to be really happy.

On the diamond though this game is second to none.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Have you posted anywhere how you do this 30 team control and what house rules you use, numerical randomness etc or is it all in your OP in the sliders section?

[coach422001]

Re: The OOTP Effect: Trades and Player Management in The Show

trades we dont always agree with are going to happen even IRL
I'm curious for those that 30 team control to over-ride trades they dont approve of,
what would you do if a Andrew McCutchen for Crick/Reynolds or a
Gerritt Cole for Feliz/Moran/Musgrove/Martin comes down, do you deny it to happen?

Mid-season if the Pirates are in the playoff hunt I would not have them trade away Cole. Off season though I mimic the real life deals as much as I can within reason. McCutchen in my franchise was a free agent and did not sign Pittsburgh's qualifying offer. There was a player on Pittsburgh that belonged with SF, so I made that deal for Crick. The dilemma I have now is McCutchen wants 30 million a year which would bury SF's budget. Likewise Bruce wants more than 13 million a year so the Mets low-balled him; we'll see what happens. As players retire I can't always move the prospects so i do the best I can.

During the season though I consider the playoff situation before I make the trades. Example: It also made no sense for me to move JD Martinez from Detroit to AZ last year, despite some insisting that you improve your team at the deadline, AZ had 3 solid outfielders including Daian Viciedo and Jay Bruce. So instead I had Detroit trade him to Toronto who was making the run but eventually fell off in September.