How to handle changeup velocity gaps

[coreyerb]

Cursory look shows a lot of pitchers' changeups are way slower than in real life, leading to sometimes 12-15 mph gaps off their fastball where in real life very few pitchers have that large a speed differential (what's up, Jharel Cotton).

How do you handle this? Crank up the breaking pitch speed slider and lower the fastball speed slider? Wait for the pitch edits roster (is Hybrid still a thing?)? Thanks in advance.

[shark547]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

This kind of thing annoys the crap out of me....not sure why the insist on doing that.

[RunRickyRun24]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

I strike out - and as a result I want to bite my living room table Lmao. This year I think speeds are a tiny bit slower so I’m a little better with this. Also I def guess pitch that changeup low at random times just to “protect against it”


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[coreyerb]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

This kind of thing annoys the crap out of me....not sure why the insist on doing that.

Same, when I saw a 79 mph changeup from Aaron Bummer (lol) coming at me it threw me off. Like doesn't this guy throw 95? Turns out he averaged 88.6 on changeups last year. Breaks immersion for me.

Guessing pitch sometimes is a good suggestion. I resorted to editing each opposing team's pitchers' pitches before I faced them in franchise last game I played. I would like to not have to do that, it's pretty time consuming.

[John_2400]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

They got so many pitchers velocity and pitch types off it's beyond ridiculous been like that for years.

[coreyerb]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

They got so many pitchers velocity and pitch types off it's beyond ridiculous been like that for years.

I would like to try to help fix that, but I don't know if I have time to help with a pitch edits roster. Is the OSFM Hybrid roster still a thing?

[shark547]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

They got so many pitchers velocity and pitch types off it's beyond ridiculous been like that for years.

The change up gap is always too big. I heard in a stream they do that on purpose so people really notice the difference. It is against the grain for realism. I know they get pitch types and velocities wrong.

I used to edit all the pitchers myself before I used the vault. I still remember when we had generated pitchers with 95 mph fastballs and knuckle balls!

[coreyerb]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

The change up gap is always too big. I heard in a stream they do that on purpose so people really notice the difference. It is against the grain for realism. I know they get pitch types and velocities wrong.

I used to edit all the pitchers myself before I used the vault. I still remember when we had generated pitchers with 95 mph fastballs and knuckle balls!

Makes sense but I wonder if they've ever played their own game and been 10 feet out in front of a million changeups. That's not realistic.

What vault rosters have been good for pitch edits, either historically or this year?

[TheDominator273]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

Here's an excerpt from an article written in 2016 which should still be quite relevant to this discussion.

Changeup

Average Velocity Difference: 7.5 mph
Standard Deviation: 1.8 mph
Maximum: 15.3 mph – Scott Kazmir
Minimum: 3.3 mph – Zack Greinke
Range: 12 mph

Like the curveball, changeups can win on both velocity and movement. Zack Greinke and Felix Hernandez are among the main contributors to the rise of the fast changeup. Greinke has seen success with his 3.3 mph gap, a contributing factor into his league-best wCH of over 20 runs, while the latter has earned a deserving reputation for possessing one of the most lethal changes in the game. We have all had the pleasure of bearing witness to King Felix’s change-up.

On the other, more traditional side, there is a pitch intended to win with the deception that stems from a more significant velocity difference. Movement on the pitch is a nice bonus, but for a slower changeup, deception and velocity are essential. Cole Hamels and his 8.2 mph difference set the standard for the offering, while others like Scott Kazmir see an even larger gap. There is no single velocity ideal for a changeup and, despite its’ origins as a pitch that wins with a large velocity difference, the modern changeup relies on movement and deception as much as a lack of speed.

It's quite disappointing if pitchers don't have accurate pitches and velocities with how much data there is regarding this. This is something that should be rated correctly on the games base rosters and not have to rely on community edits to get it corrected.

[coreyerb]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

I have fastball pitch speed up a couple notches and offspeed pitch speed up more and that's seemed to help.

Any other suggestions that have worked for you?

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

Wait, are you suggesting that pitch speeds in the game are actually accurate in regards to the time it takes for them to reach home plate? Isn't pitch speed different for every difficulty?

I would agree that the devs ought to just label the pitch speed with whatever source they use claims, but it never occurred to me that people actually thought that they were seeing pitches with true life velocity.

There are a million issues with how that has to be handled. And the most important one is how the average user interprets the change in speed within the limits of a video game versus real life. In that realm, the speed differential seems to work pretty well.

[coreyerb]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

Wait, are you suggesting that pitch speeds in the game are actually accurate in regards to the time it takes for them to reach home plate? Isn't pitch speed different for every difficulty?

I would agree that the devs ought to just label the pitch speed with whatever source they use claims, but it never occurred to me that people actually thought that they were seeing pitches with true life velocity.

There are a million issues with how that has to be handled. And the most important one is how the average user interprets the change in speed within the limits of a video game versus real life. In that realm, the speed differential seems to work pretty well.

Not sure who you're addressing but I'll speak for myself, I don't think pitches are or should be true to life with the time they take to reach the batter. What I'm asking for is true to life velocity differentials between pitchers' fastballs and changeups. So in the example of Aaron Bummer, his velo gap is 11 mph in this year's game, while it was 5.6 mph in real life.

To me, the way it is now, too many pitchers have such a gap between changeup and fastball that it makes hitting artificially hard. You're late on fastballs or way early on changeups (the animation is comical when you swing and miss out in front).

I've edited pitch types/velocities to match real life repertoires in franchises in the past and the game plays more true to life. You can still be fooled by changeups but not every pitcher is Alex Claudio throwing a Bugs Bunny change.

[My993C2]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

I recently read something someone wrote here, that on Legend with the Fastball Speed slider set to a 10, that this was basically the same as a 90 mph Fastball in real life. Not sure if it is true, but if it is it, it just shows how talented the real world guys are. But that is off topic I guess.

I have my Fastball Speed slider set at the max of 10 and the Offspeed slider set to a 7. I have seen some people saying their Offspeed slider set to 10, but that just seems contradictory? Or maybe it's not. I do know that I have swung early at offspeed pitches in my games and felt rather silly. But I am a rookie when it comes to hitting so I just chalked it up as something to try and learn from.

[shark547]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

Makes sense but I wonder if they've ever played their own game and been 10 feet out in front of a million changeups. That's not realistic.

What vault rosters have been good for pitch edits, either historically or this year?

Maybe they have a lot better eyes than I do! lol

I wait for OSFM...then I see if anyone is going to do pitch edits...the same guy usually puts out a spread sheet. I can't seem to recall his name. If no one on here talks about it I will do it myself. I have never uploaded a roster. I will if no one else does it. My OCD can't handle things being wrong....

[underdog13]

Re: How to handle changeup velocity gaps

I turn the breakingball speed slider up by one notch. It's helped a good bit.