Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

[Gagnon39]

Watching Javier Baez and Jon Lester the past few years have made me think about some areas that really need to be addressed in The Show. Specifically with the addition of new attributes/ratings and animations.

First for Baez, who is arguably the best tagged and slider I’ve ever watched, which is something I’ve never paid a whole lot of attention to in my 35+ year love affair with the game of baseball. But Javy is simply amazing. His ability to tag runners out and avoid tags is incredible. He’d be a 99 in each of these ratings if they were (and should be) in The Show. The game should have an assortment of sliding animations (especially Javy’s, “ninja slide) where he moves his left hand away from the tag, reaches around the fielder’s glove with his right hand onto the bag and then keeps his left toe on the bag. He’s don’t it on multiple occasions. If you don’t know what I’m talking about just YouTube, “Javier Baez sliding.” Of course, like most things, this should NOT be overdone, and a David Ortiz or Prince Fielder-type should not be pulling this off.

Like wise, sometimes the tagged should get you despite your slide, other times, you should avoid the tag. It should be a dice roll that takes into account the fielder’s tagging ability and the base runner’s sliding ability.

Another area is pitchers holding on runners, or Lester’s case the inability to do so. Lester would be a 10 at best in a, “pickoffs,” attribute/rating. There should be a very high risk of an awful throw to first with him and runners should be able to comfortably get an extra step, or two, or three, or four (again, YouTub, “Lester holding runners).

The Show is so polished at this point that I feel these are some of the last few things that need to be addressed to really just make it an even more complete game (gameplay wise) than it already is.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Caulfield]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

I dont know if we'll see an expansion of attributes until the Show moves to the PS5 & even then not until its completely off PS4.But maybe new defensive animations could be added w/o new defensive attributes. maybe by making it a quirk?and back to new attributes, I wouldnt mind seeing vision & discipline split into left/right like contact & power. same for pitchers h/hr/k/bb/9's. make 'em left/right also. and while they're at it, catcher pitch framing too.

[moTIGS]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

I would like to be able to see velocity, break, and control ratings for each individual pitch without going into the edit screen. Or at least an overall of sorts for each pitch.

I don't know how the current velocity/break/control ratings work, but I assume a guy who has three mediocre pitches vs. a guy with two outstanding ones and three bad ones will end up having similar ratings in those three categories.

This information is all already in the game. Just not displayed.

[bigwill33]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

The Show should do more with sliding and tagging for sure. You should be able to use a speed burst, because not all players run the same speeds and sometimes I want to dictate when I go all out.

You should be able to over slide the bag. You should be able to apply different types of tags, and a lot of them should be manually done (if you choose to set the game that way). You should be able to hold a tag on a sliding player or place the glove in front of the bag so that they have to slide into your tag. And there should be counters for higher attributed base runners that allow them to perform hook slides that contort their hands or arms around a potential tag, but at the risk of over sliding or getting injured, perhaps.

I think it would be more immersive to have to wait to catch the ball and then swipe the right stick to perform a sweep tag, or hold the right stick to try and place your tag ahead of the bag.

The Show also needs more fielding animations for jumping, diving, and sliding. The same ones have been in the game for years now and they look tired and stale. We need more control over these animations as well, and they could be tied to attributes or something as to which ones you can trigger with which players and at which positions.

And the entire cat and mouse game of getting a lead off of a bag needs redone. You need to have more control over when you can get back and not be stuck in an animation. The tagging system I mentioned above would be perfect for the pickoff situations. I would also get rid of the canned steps away from first, let the user have more control over how many feet they take from the bag. As it stands right now, I pretty much lower the pitcher pickoff slider to 0 because I never take an extra step unless they are not holding me on at the bag. I hate the way the pickoffs work in this game and would love to see them be addressed. It is almost a waste of time to try and pick off the cpu so I rarely throw over unless I see a base stealing threat taking an extra step.

[jada855]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

Bigwill33 covered a lot so to be short in swift

#1 BASE RUNNING REWRITE! In short attributes should affect both human and CPU runners. Baserunners need to be way more aware rather than scripted to go to the next base. Its like they are currently on auto pilot. I dont think an attribute will fix this. Needs to be rebuilt from the ground up!
* Tagging needs to affect overall game play for CPU & Human

* Pick off/Dive to bag: Complete Rewrite
* Human/Player Lock fielder control: Complete Rewrite (True Step Tech)

* Player Lock Fielding interaction with CPU: Complete Rewrite.

[KBLover]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

Tagging/sliding would be very hard to evaluate, especially on a 0-99 scale. What's the difference between 90 tagging and 99? or 80 sliding and 85? How would it progress/decline? What stats would be used, since player development in this game is tied at least half way to performance?

I think the tag/slide abilities should be like pickoff rating (not 0-99 but more a low, average, high scale) - and show the quirk on the player if it's high (i.e. like Pickoff Artist). Or maybe in this case make it more binary...either he has it or he doesn't (like Breaking Ball Hitter or Night Player). And the die roll/event/user control responds accordingly. If the runner has "Ninja Slider" and the fielder doesn't have "Acrobatic Tagger" then then runner has a 30% chance to evade the tag. If the fielder has "Acrobatic Tagger" then it's a 15% chance to evade for the runner. Something like that.

Of course, those numbers and quirk interactions would be hard to set because that's also hard (if not impossible) to quantify, even with Statcast. Would take a lot of watching and, hopefully, Beaz isn't the only one who attempts to avoid tags or good at tagging for more sample size.

Why couldn't a slower runner be better at avoiding tags? Just because someone is slow doesn't mean they can't manipulate their body on a slide. I don't think it has anything to do with speed. Baez is no Billy Hamilton after all but he's just that aggressive and competitive in that aspect of the game, both with tagging and sliding.

This also opens it up for created players for future years of franchise so that it's just not "a Baez rating" but one that further describes and impacts a player's style on the field that we can see in the game.

I don't know how the current velocity/break/control ratings work, but I assume a guy who has three mediocre pitches vs. a guy with two outstanding ones and three bad ones will end up having similar ratings in those three categories.

They really should show the pitcher's best/worst pitches and, ideally, their actual ratings on a screen (perhaps a third screen for pitchers: pitching ratings, hitting/fielding/running ratings, and individual pitch ratings).

Also, perhaps color the best pitches in blue, average ones stay white, and weak ones in orange when it shows the pitcher's repertoire. Then again, there are quirks for the pitches so you can see the top end, but that still leaves a lot of missing information.

[bigwill33]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

I'd also like a new pitch mechanic for deliveries. Something that isn't using the analog sticks, but still rewards timing somewhat.

I would like there to be more feedback from the controller and its vibrations for the strain I put on an arm upon release of a pitch. Something like each windup is different in the game and that windup determines how slow the pitch meter goes for accuracy, but for strength of pitch or velocity, that is determined by how hard you press the pitch button, or something to that effect.

Then when you release the ball you really feel like you are driving the pitch or following through and applying a certain spin on the ball, with feedback in your controller to help rumble and know how hard you threw it.

It is harder to explain in writing than if I tried and show or describe in with my voice, but I would like something that combines some of the old school games and how you pitched in those, with more complexity that is in today's baseball games, but without the tediousness of analog controls for pitching. If that makes any sense.

[JoseJoseph9119]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

We need to be able to reach into the stands for foul balls. Had 4 popups in one game land in front of the first row in the stands while my fielder just stood there picking sunflower seeds out of his teeth

[Gagnon39]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

Tagging/sliding would be very hard to evaluate, especially on a 0-99 scale. What's the difference between 90 tagging and 99? or 80 sliding and 85?

I disagree. As it stands right now one of the big gameplay changes in 18 was the fielder's tagging. As soon as I saw the developers talk about it and a few videos I immediately said, "well, everyone's going to apply perfect tags. Every. Single. Time." Which they do. If the ball beats the runner to the bag and the throw is online, the runner is out, 100% of the time. In real baseball this is not the case.

As far as the difference, it could be as easy as a 99 has a 99% chance of applying a perfect tag. An 80 has an 80% chance, etc. Of course there could be higher percentages for guys rated lower as you wouldn't want to have a guy that only has a 40% chance of applying a good tag.

But the tags should be high up on the shoulder sometimes, on the head sometimes, the hip and when it's perfect on the hand or foot (whichever is reaching the bag first). I don't buy that this would be all that hard to program, since this game is so detailed as it is. It could be a more simple solution than this but the fact remains, there should not be perfectly placed tags 100% of the time, period. I'd just take that as it is, make all players, "not perfect." However, making player's skill at tagging and also sliding would be the perfect scenario.

[Caulfield]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

I disagree. As it stands right now one of the big gameplay changes in 18 was the fielder's tagging. As soon as I saw the developers talk about it and a few videos I immediately said, "well, everyone's going to apply perfect tags. Every. Single. Time." Which they do. If the ball beats the runner to the bag and the throw is online, the runner is out, 100% of the time. In real baseball this is not the case.

As far as the difference, it could be as easy as a 99 has a 99% chance of applying a perfect tag. An 80 has an 80% chance, etc. Of course there could be higher percentages for guys rated lower as you wouldn't want to have a guy that only has a 40% chance of applying a good tag.




But the tags should be high up on the shoulder sometimes, on the head sometimes, the hip and when it's perfect on the hand or foot (whichever is reaching the bag first). I don't buy that this would be all that hard to program, since this game is so detailed as it is. It could be a more simple solution than this but the fact remains, there should not be perfectly placed tags 100% of the time, period. I'd just take that as it is, make all players, "not perfect." However, making player's skill at tagging and also sliding would be the perfect scenario.

I didnt take it KB is saying its difficult to program but rather, hard to evaluate without proper stats?

[BigOscar]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

I didnt take it KB is saying its difficult to program but rather, hard to evaluate without proper stats?

You could say the same about a lot of the stats already there tbh (durability, clutch, difference between fielding and reactions, bunt/drag bunt etc etc)

I think they could do with changing the scale for a lot of these stats are 1-99 is just unnecessary. No one really bunts enough anymore to have an accurate rating, maybe just simplify them to a 1-5 scale or something. (while keeping 1-99 fo more measurable things like contact/power/speed/arm strength etc)

[KBLover]

Re: Attributes, animations, etc. that need to be in The Show.

I didnt take it KB is saying its difficult to program but rather, hard to evaluate without proper stats?

Exactly. How would the rating get set more than "99 for Baez because he's all over highlights with his slides/tags"?

That's why I think the quirk approach would be better and to Big Oscar's good point, apply that for a lot of the "intangible" ratings.

Even if they still exist "under the hood" - show quirks for guys who are good at it. It highlights them more readily, expands the quirks system, players could grow into them/lose them, and alleviates the "what's the difference between 2 points of this or that".

You probably could put ALL attributes under a similar thinking. Probably why the scout scale is 2-8 or 20-80 with changes being representative of large, easily observed/measured levels.

Would be an interesting option - like how OOTP lets you change the scale