Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

[HypeRNT]

I had a guy with 99 speed on 1st, and a guy threw to 1st 27 times in a row, is there no punishment for this crap? Energy? I mean that should be 27 pitches, it was insane just sitting there and watching this....

[Blzer]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

I had a guy with 99 speed on 1st, and a guy threw to 1st 27 times in a row, is there no punishment for this crap? Energy? I mean that should be 27 pitches, it was insane just sitting there and watching this....

Why should there be? There isn't in real life; in fact, there can't be in real life.

I think a minor drain in energy would be nice, but what are you going to do? Have the game yell "STOP IT"? Then automatically let you steal, or automatically hinder you for stealing?

That's unfortunate, but outside of the smallest energy drain, I'm not really sure what else you should expect from it. Maybe the pitcher accidentally balks time to time?

[bcruise]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

I had a guy with 99 speed on 1st, and a guy threw to 1st 27 times in a row, is there no punishment for this crap? Energy? I mean that should be 27 pitches, it was insane just sitting there and watching this....

There is an energy cost to attempting pickoffs, it's pretty easy to see in offline play if you IBB the first guy and just throw over repeatedly. I don't know if it's a whole pitch's worth of energy or some fraction of one, but it is there.

The thing is though, energy isn't even going to play much of a part in most online games because a lot of people will swing at virtually everything in the strike zone. That usually doesn't allow pitch counts to get very high, or much energy to be expended. Let alone allowing any energy hit from repeated pickoffs to be a factor.

I'm curious though - did you take the extra leadoff step on every one of those? If you just had the standard lead and weren't pressing L1 each time, that seems like something that needs to be addressed. People shouldn't just be able to throw over non-stop if no lead is being taken - that borders on being an exploitable way to not allow a game to continue (or at least, cause it to progress extremely slowly).

[Bunselpower32]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

Why should there be? There isn't in real life; in fact, there can't be in real life.

I think a minor drain in energy would be nice, but what are you going to do? Have the game yell "STOP IT"? Then automatically let you steal, or automatically hinder you for stealing?

That's unfortunate, but outside of the smallest energy drain, I'm not really sure what else you should expect from it. Maybe the pitcher accidentally balks time to time?

Agreed, but there should be a drop in effectiveness. The first pick off throw is generally the most effective, then down from there pretty sharply.

I don't know how it works in The Show because it's so infrequent, but if the chance for being picked off doesn't drop effectively to 0 after three or so attempts, something is wrong. Nobody is going to get picked when they've seen the guy's move after basically 2 throws. I can only assume that he did that because there was a chance for it to happen, which is not right.

Also, there should be a soft limit built in, the umpire would eventually call a delay of game I would imagine irl.

[Blzer]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

Yeah, now that you mention it I agree that there should be something. Even in real life, the more you focus on the runner, the less you "focus" on the batter. More chances to miss your spots, especially out over the plate or something. I see what you mean.

I don't know how the effectiveness should work towards pickoffs, though. You could just as easily exploit that on the other side of the ball then as a baserunner and get your steals as needed.

[Vmascarello]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

If someone is taking a one step lead, I have zero problem with throwing over an infinite amount of times. It’s on the base runner to stop taking the lead. And if they’re stubborn enough to continue to take an extra lead, then let the stalemate commence.

Biggest reason being that anyone over 90 speed will steal the base successfully with a one step lead just about every single time. I will never blame anyone for not conceding this. There is no entitlement to getting free stolen bases. If you are playing someone that plays close attention to base runners, then you either deal with it or try to steal without the extra lead.

Not saying it towards the OP because I don’t know the situation specifically that he’s bringing up. But nothing grinds my gears more than someone complaining about throw-overs when they continue to take extra leads.

I mean do you expect people will just hand you stolen bases?

[Caulfield]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

lol
I'd say the punishment was ya'll both had to play (& watch) that cat & mouse mess 27 times.

[HypeRNT]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

Why should there be? There isn't in real life; in fact, there can't be in real life.

I think a minor drain in energy would be nice, but what are you going to do? Have the game yell "STOP IT"? Then automatically let you steal, or automatically hinder you for stealing?

That's unfortunate, but outside of the smallest energy drain, I'm not really sure what else you should expect from it. Maybe the pitcher accidentally balks time to time?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE ISNT IN REAL LIFE?
You have to pretty much throw a fastball to 1st 27 times before you even attempt to pitch an inning... Most pitchers struggle going 6 innings these days, let alone waste 27 pitches. Thats besides the point that some pitchers struggle with accuracy throwing to 1st, others simply dont(like lester)
Ontop of that, you got a pretty much an exploit by preventing the game from going on, so if im losing, il walk 1 guy and throw to first until my opponent rage quits.... Because who will sit there for 2 hours watching a pick off move being done over and over for the fact to win a game....

Yes there should be heavy stamina drop, and yes there should be a limit to how many pick off moves you can do either per inning or per batter... If you need to throw to 1st 27 times in a row then you aren't playing the game properly nor being efficient because throwing a fast ball of the plate would accomplish the same thing or a pitch out.

And as a side note, i was taking a 1 step lead for half of those, until i got bored and stopped and he threw like 12 more times to first in which case i said that it had nothing to do with me and he was more raging that i got a blooper base hit then anything, but who knows i cant read his mind.

[Blzer]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE ISNT IN REAL LIFE?
You have to pretty much throw a fastball to 1st 27 times before you even attempt to pitch an inning... Most pitchers struggle going 6 innings these days, let alone waste 27 pitches.

I'm only going to respond to this portion.

Pickoffs aren't thrown with maximum effort. If they were, they would be included in the overall pitch count, alongside warm-up pitches, pitches in the bullpen before one's appearance, or just playing catch with somebody in any other capacity (long toss or otherwise). You can't throw 2,000 times, I agree, but pickoffs aren't going to tax the arm like pitches are. That's why I said that a drop in stamina should be there, but not on the same level as pitches.

The other thing I brought up was there isn't anything in the sport that says you can't pickoff over and over, because it would be broken if there was a limit. Logically, that runner would just steal right in front of your face and you couldn't do anything about it.

Anyway, I am for something where the more you attempt to pick off a runner, the more likely you are to throw one away or balk. I'm also good with the slight stamina drop. Unfortunately, the rest is up to you playing online. I don't play online, because they don't play like baseball players do... they play like online players. It's not fun for me, and that would probably be a reason why.

[nflman2033]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE ISNT IN REAL LIFE?
You have to pretty much throw a fastball to 1st 27 times before you even attempt to pitch an inning... Most pitchers struggle going 6 innings these days, let alone waste 27 pitches. Thats besides the point that some pitchers struggle with accuracy throwing to 1st, others simply dont(like lester)
Ontop of that, you got a pretty much an exploit by preventing the game from going on, so if im losing, il walk 1 guy and throw to first until my opponent rage quits.... Because who will sit there for 2 hours watching a pick off move being done over and over for the fact to win a game....

Yes there should be heavy stamina drop, and yes there should be a limit to how many pick off moves you can do either per inning or per batter... If you need to throw to 1st 27 times in a row then you aren't playing the game properly nor being efficient because throwing a fast ball of the plate would accomplish the same thing or a pitch out.

And as a side note, i was taking a 1 step lead for half of those, until i got bored and stopped and he threw like 12 more times to first in which case i said that it had nothing to do with me and he was more raging that i got a blooper base hit then anything, but who knows i cant read his mind.

Last i knew there was a limit to how often you can throw over if you dont take an extra step. Maybe something that needs to be patched.

But take a step and I am not going to throw a single pitch. You want to see a pitch stop taking a step.

[BigOscar]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

This whole thing is just a result of people online exploiting the fact that human pickoffs pretty much never, ever succeed online. So scrubs will take an extra step lead, knowing it almost guarantees a stolen base, safe from the real life risk of being picked off if you do this.

So as a result, people will take the extra step 50 times and the pitcher will throw over 50 times, because why should they just let you steal second?

If you want to punish throwing over repeatedly, then first they have to punish taking that extra step, in the form of far more frequent pick offs.

[HypeRNT]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

I'm only going to respond to this portion.

Pickoffs aren't thrown with maximum effort. If they were, they would be included in the overall pitch count, alongside warm-up pitches, pitches in the bullpen before one's appearance, or just playing catch with somebody in any other capacity (long toss or otherwise). You can't throw 2,000 times, I agree, but pickoffs aren't going to tax the arm like pitches are. That's why I said that a drop in stamina should be there, but not on the same level as pitches.

The other thing I brought up was there isn't anything in the sport that says you can't pickoff over and over, because it would be broken if there was a limit. Logically, that runner would just steal right in front of your face and you couldn't do anything about it.

Anyway, I am for something where the more you attempt to pick off a runner, the more likely you are to throw one away or balk. I'm also good with the slight stamina drop. Unfortunately, the rest is up to you playing online. I don't play online, because they don't play like baseball players do... they play like online players. It's not fun for me, and that would probably be a reason why.

Talking about written rules and baseball is just not the best thing to do considering how many "unwritten" rules the sport has. But this isnt real life, this is a video game and video games need balance.

While you dont throw a 100mph fast ball to 1st, you still have to make it fast enough to pick of the player, so yes, there is a considerable amount of energy used, since you have to turn and twist your body if you are a RHP, but all thats IRL stuff.

And i dont get why people are bringing up stolen bases like this is some glitch or something. Fast players can steal bases, slow velocity pitches allow for those bases to be stolen at a higher rate, this is nothing special.

There isnt just 1 way to prevent a steal, in fact throwing to 1st is actually the worst way to prevent a steal... At least in DD. If you know a guy is taking a 1 step lead and he is going for a steal, you can pitch with a fastball or pitch a fastball just out of the zone which makes it for an easy pick off throw or even a pitch out which works great vs aggressive base stealers.

Yet the problem remains that its not realistic nor should it be viable to throw to 1st that many times. If you throw to 1st 10 times and you havent gotten the guy at 1st thats taking a step, thats your fault, you should be punished for that, it should be risk vs reward, your reward being an out at 1st, risk being either a thrown away ball, or extended energy drain that kicks in after x amount of throws to 1st, or some sort of mistake by the pitcher which are not consistent when throwing to 1st constantly in the first place so im not sure why they are in this game.

Now i have not even mentioned in this post the problem that comes with unlimited no punishment mechanics that can break the game when players want wins because there are rewards to be had, i can spend an hour throwing to 1st as long as i get a win while my opponent rage quits cuz hes not into having a 3 hour game or a 1 hour first inning.

[RockPowderDownLoL]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

Talking about written rules and baseball is just not the best thing to do considering how many "unwritten" rules the sport has. But this isnt real life, this is a video game and video games need balance.

While you dont throw a 100mph fast ball to 1st, you still have to make it fast enough to pick of the player, so yes, there is a considerable amount of energy used, since you have to turn and twist your body if you are a RHP, but all thats IRL stuff.

And i dont get why people are bringing up stolen bases like this is some glitch or something. Fast players can steal bases, slow velocity pitches allow for those bases to be stolen at a higher rate, this is nothing special.

There isnt just 1 way to prevent a steal, in fact throwing to 1st is actually the worst way to prevent a steal... At least in DD. If you know a guy is taking a 1 step lead and he is going for a steal, you can pitch with a fastball or pitch a fastball just out of the zone which makes it for an easy pick off throw or even a pitch out which works great vs aggressive base stealers.

Yet the problem remains that its not realistic nor should it be viable to throw to 1st that many times. If you throw to 1st 10 times and you havent gotten the guy at 1st thats taking a step, thats your fault, you should be punished for that, it should be risk vs reward, your reward being an out at 1st, risk being either a thrown away ball, or extended energy drain that kicks in after x amount of throws to 1st, or some sort of mistake by the pitcher which are not consistent when throwing to 1st constantly in the first place so im not sure why they are in this game.

Now i have not even mentioned in this post the problem that comes with unlimited no punishment mechanics that can break the game when players want wins because there are rewards to be had, i can spend an hour throwing to 1st as long as i get a win while my opponent rage quits cuz hes not into having a 3 hour game or a 1 hour first inning.

you mentioned leading off 12 times before stopping? also, if you lead off and you plan to steal(when you prompt your player to steal), eventually your player will freeze and get picked off. if you lead off and you do NOT prompt your player to steal then he will not freeze. so it sounds like you were leading off without any intention of stealing which leads me to ask why the hell lead off 12 times without ever intending to steal? you sound like the type of player who i wouldn't even enjoy beating. there is something off that you are not telling us...

prove me wrong.

[Bunselpower32]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

Yeah, now that you mention it I agree that there should be something. Even in real life, the more you focus on the runner, the less you "focus" on the batter. More chances to miss your spots, especially out over the plate or something. I see what you mean.

I don't know how the effectiveness should work towards pickoffs, though. You could just as easily exploit that on the other side of the ball then as a baserunner and get your steals as needed.

Yeah, I should have clarified, that’s if you don’t have a big lead. Every step you take off is going to lengthen that amount of time. And every guy has a spot where they can reliably get back in time, that should depend on ratings.

[HypeRNT]

Re: Is there no punishment for throwing to 1st 27 times?

you mentioned leading off 12 times before stopping? also, if you lead off and you plan to steal(when you prompt your player to steal), eventually your player will freeze and get picked off. if you lead off and you do NOT prompt your player to steal then he will not freeze. so it sounds like you were leading off without any intention of stealing which leads me to ask why the hell lead off 12 times without ever intending to steal? you sound like the type of player who i wouldn't even enjoy beating. there is something off that you are not telling us...

prove me wrong.

Yeah sorry i forgot i got under the table dealings with Pete Rose, like wtf do you expect me to tell you? Im leading of because its less of a chance for a double play, as well as having a guy on 1st with 99 speed, u know the 30 power hitter that is only useful if he gets on base by a grounder?

Obv the intention is to steal a base, but if someone is paying attention then it no longer becomes about that, just because you take a lead does not mean you will steal every time, regardless this does not change the premise of the thread, so im not sure why you are so focused on 1 tiny detail trying to mislead and deflect the conversation constantly.