Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

[countryboy]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

So we are the moderaters now of our own thread? Or as a community can we make suggestions and comments that clearly relate to the topic at hand, which may help readers of the post and not just the OP?

What does you talking about a fix breaking something else or how sliders are needed for true sim stats have to do with the topic at hand?

Not a damn thing.

EDIT: Requested thread locked. I've sent thread link to SDS so they could see the videos that bcruise posted. Thanks

[Vercingetirex]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

I have had some early success with lowering the CPU contact slider to 2, foul ball frequency to 2, and timing to 3. While only turning up human pitching consistency to 6. Everything else default. Going to run these for a while more and see what kind of stats I am getting. So far I have seen swinging strikeouts and strikeouts looking. They will chase on pitcher counts, but still can get a decent amount of hits, most importantly, XBH.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

What does you talking about a fix breaking something else or how sliders are needed for true sim stats have to do with the topic at hand?

Not a damn thing.

Re-read my posts and you might understand. Some people are here for help. And i personally think while sliders are not the point, they are a huge help to some. Is that not relevant?

[JoshC1977]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

No because this isn't about not understanding the meter. This is about both the user and AI being able to make contact on pitches where the PCI is located significantly away from the location of the pitch.

I know a lot of people in here could give two craps about online play, what countryboy's talking about here is a huge subject of discussion by online DDers right now. People are able to not only make contact with balls well out of the zone (and off the PCI), but they are able to hit them with authority. I don't play online myself, but I have seen some wacky stuff watching streams (the wackier stuff likely due to inflated card ratings). Nonetheless, contact hitting and the ease of it has a lot of eyes on it right now - and this is something that affects all MLB communities.

If they fix it, the next wave of threads on here will likely be "since the last patch CPU hitting sucks. I am dominating now. They broke something else." But it's not that they broke something, its that they only fixed one part of the scale. Unless we are expecting SDS to back under the hood and, in addition to adjusting contact, adjust hit velocities, fielder reaction, and whatever else, it isn't going to technically fix anything unfortunately. It will just rear its head elswehere.

And this summarizes my concern to a T. If SDS tries to fix it somehow, it's a gamble as to whether or not something else will be adversely affected. I also suspect this is why there hasn't been a gameplay patch yet (which I applaud).

What does you talking about a fix breaking something else have to do with the topic at hand?

Not a damn thing.

There IS an imbalance in the game and we know why. That's very clear.

Should it be fixed though? That is the next question that should be answered. Is it really THAT bad? Is it worth running the risk of potentially breaking something else?

I think it's a cautionary statement of "be careful what you wish for" and is the next logical progression of this discussion.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

EDIT: Requested thread locked. I've sent thread link to SDS so they could see the videos that bcruise posted. Thanks

Request locking the thread if you want but you are talking out of both sides of your mouth as shown here....

The POINT of this thread was to see if others were seeing the same issue I was an then seeing if we can find a culprit and possibly a fix if we can narrow down the culprit. That's it.

It's been made, and clearly made, time and time again in this thread.

Explain this post by the OP in the the thread "Help Generating Strikeouts" :

I am having a difficult time generating high amount of strikeouts with pitchers who should be putting up 8 plus per game. Does anybody have any recommendations to help generate more strikeouts? What pitching interface is the best to use?

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...trikeouts.html

To which you immediately pretty much killed the thread by replying

Discussion about this taking place here

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...trikeouts.html

That thread was requesting help. But you send them here, then say that help isn't the "point". The only "point" is finding a culprit/fix.

Very confusing....

[countryboy]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Request locking the thread if you want but you are talking out of both sides of your mouth as shown here....



Explain this post by the OP in the the thread "Help Generating Strikeouts" https://forums.operationsports.com/f...trikeouts.html



To which you immediately pretty much killed the thread by replying


That thread was requesting help. You send them here, then say that help isn't the "point". The "point" is finding a culprit.

Very confusing....

That thread was talking about help with lack of strikeouts which I replied that a discussion in regards to lack of strikeouts was taking place here. I referred him here because we were discussing the excessive contact therefore leading to less strikeouts, which his issue would've been in line with.

Not once did I claim that help wasn't the point. In fact I even said that if we could find the culprit then we could possibly determine a fix via the user to combat it.

What I did say was you talking about needing to adjust sliders to get realistic stats over 162 games or how if SDS fixed this issue that another issue would come about, or when rebel was talking about other issues with hitting and the direction of the game, had nothing to do with the topic at hand and were better served elsewhere.

So you can accuse me of **** all you want, but the bottom line is that this thread was being taken off topic and turning into a discussion that had no business being in this thread.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

Not once did I claim that help wasn't the point.

The POINT of this thread was to see if others were seeing the same issue I was an then seeing if we can find a culprit and possibly a fix if we can narrow down the culprit. That's it. (Emphasis NRS)

It's been made, and clearly made, time and time again in this thread.

Alrighty then.......

So you can accuse me of **** all you want, but the bottom line is that this thread was being taken off topic and turning into a discussion that had no business being in this thread.

Off topic in one person's opinion - Yours. In many other's opinions, if you re-read the thread, my points were directly on topic and is reflected in what others have said throughout this thread. Your opinion isn't the only one that matters, even if you started the thread, and if the members don't discuss the topic exactly how you want them to.

But i agree. This thread probably needs to be closed and people who want to discuss Contact, Swings and Misses, and Strikeouts can go to the thread that was sent here.
https://forums.operationsports.com/f...trikeouts.html

[countryboy]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

The whole idea about upping pitcher control is really interesting, because it's essentially the same effect I was talking about with getting high confidence early in a game and "getting on a roll" so to speak. I want the same thing because I know it'll increase K's (because control is a big factor on Legend with any pitching mode except maybe analog) , but I'm trying to make it happen without a slider change, for now.

I missed these types of discussions on here.

I was thinking about this today while at work watching the Cards/Brewers game, for whatever reason.

Since you and I are on the same page, seemingly about the CPU hitting pitches it probably shouldn't due to PCI placement, are you finding they are making that contact due to missed accuracy marks with meter pitching?

Something I'm going to pay attention to during my gaming session tonight.

[bcruise]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

I was thinking about this today while at work watching the Cards/Brewers game, for whatever reason.

Since you and I are on the same page, seemingly about the CPU hitting pitches it probably shouldn't due to PCI placement, are you finding they are making that contact due to missed accuracy marks with meter pitching?

Something I'm going to pay attention to during my gaming session tonight.

Well, in the sense that I don't throw the ball where I want it and when those misses go over the plate they get hit, yeah. I don't think there's anything directly saying that I get hit for missing my accuracy mark though, it's just one consequence of that - others can be wild pitches, obvious balls, or hit batters - and I see plenty of all of the above.

Appreciate you passing the earlier stuff on to SDS, btw. Hopefully they have it in the right context - This may very well be just Legend being Legend, and it being intended that way to make the hardest difficulty level tougher. I'm not sure if I'd really agree with that hypothetical approach, but it definitely forces me to change the way I pitch, in a more conservative and - dare I say realistic - way.

I should probably play around with HOF and All-Star to see if there's a difference.

[countryboy]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

I was wondering if pitches out of the zone that CPU is off on PCI placement but still makes contact, if those were generally missed accuracy pitches.

I thought about messing around on HoF to see if I noticed a difference but with people here saying they see it at those levels as well I didn’t mess with it.

And happy to send to SDS. Not sure what will become of it but we’ll see.




Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Caulfield]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

is there a known website that tracks IRL swings & misses? I get the vast majority of my info from Baseball Reference but I dont even know if thats something they track . in todays analytical baseball world , I cant imagine that there is not at least one place that would keep a running tally

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

is there a known website that tracks IRL swings & misses? I get the vast majority of my info from Baseball Reference but I dont even know if thats something they track . in todays analytical baseball world , I cant imagine that there is not at least one place that would keep a running tally

We are taking a huge risk of being off-topic here but i like baseball reference...

https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...pitching.shtml


https://www.baseball-reference.com/l...-batting.shtml

Those are by team, but can also view it by hitter or pitcher.

Fangraphs too.

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...ter=&players=0

Or Pitch Info Plate Discipline which i consider more accurate:

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...ter=&players=0

[bcruise]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

is there a known website that tracks IRL swings & misses? I get the vast majority of my info from Baseball Reference but I dont even know if thats something they track . in todays analytical baseball world , I cant imagine that there is not at least one place that would keep a running tally

For most of the stuff relating to contact and swings/misses, I look in Fangraphs "Plate Discipline" sections. I don't know if it charts every swing somewhere, but the stats are shown in percentages which makes them easier to deal with.

Here's an explanation page with all of them (including averages). And if you want to see how the actual stats look, look in the Leaders tab, choose a year and go to the "Plate Discipline" tab.

https://library.fangraphs.com/pitching/plate-discipline-o-swing-z-swing-etc/

It's important to understand I'm not trying to fry my brain by attempting to re-create these exact kinds of percentages in the game (they're averages anyway so they shouldn't always look like that), but when they're way off of those averages consistently it's usually a sign that there's a problem which is impacting the in-game stats. Ultimately all I care about is what shows up in the game's boxscore, so if I'm getting the right numbers of K's and everything else then I'm not going to panic over OSwing% being too high/low. That's "paralysis by analysis" IMO.

BTW....I played All-Star for a game with Scherzer and struck out 14 in 7 innings, not changing my approach from Legend. So, the strikeouts are definitely in there.

[Caulfield]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

For most of the stuff relating to contact and swings/misses, I look in Fangraphs "Plate Discipline" sections. I don't know if it charts every swing somewhere, but the stats are shown in percentages which makes them easier to deal with.

Here's an explanation page with all of them (including averages). And if you want to see how the actual stats look, look in the Leaders tab, choose a year and go to the "Plate Discipline" tab.

https://library.fangraphs.com/pitching/plate-discipline-o-swing-z-swing-etc/

It's important to understand I'm not trying to fry my brain by attempting to re-create these exact kinds of percentages in the game (they're averages anyway so they shouldn't always look like that), but when they're way off of those averages consistently it's usually a sign that there's a problem which is impacting the in-game stats. Ultimately all I care about is what shows up in the game's boxscore, so if I'm getting the right numbers of K's and everything else then I'm not going to panic over OSwing% being too high/low. That's "paralysis by analysis" IMO.


BTW....I played All-Star for a game with Scherzer and struck out 14 in 7 innings, not changing my approach from Legend. So, the strikeouts are definitely in there.

yeah , it could be overkill trying to replicate real numbers but the topic did make me wonder how accurate it is . the last couple games I made a mental note of percentage misses I was getting and 5% was my result .
#CuriousCat

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Contact - Swings & Misses - Strikeouts

yeah , it could be overkill trying to replicate real numbers but the topic did make me wonder how accurate it is . the last couple games I made a mental note of percentage misses I was getting and 5% was my result .
#CuriousCat

I track this every year in my franchise. If i remember right, if measuring per pitch count (not by strikes) league average is around 11%.