Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

[jmel07]

Let me start this thread with stating I love the way the outfield and players appear in MLB The Show 19. It's the most realistic interpretation I've seen of the space. However, I'd love to offer a few thoughts on what seems to be just a little off.

I've not done scientific analysis on any of these points, this i just after playing about 60 games of Franchise Mode.

1. Default outfielder positioning seems too shallow
2. Outfielders get to too many balls smoked down the line before they reach the corner
3. Too many hits down into the corners that should be easy doubles result in close plays or outs at second base. Even the slowest guys (I'm looking at you Yadier Molina) can walk into second base on a ball hit down into the corner.
4. CPU pitchers make WAY more plays on balls hit back up the middle than they should and than mine do. This might be a by product of needing to control BABIP, but it feels really cheap.

Here's an example of a hit from an actual MLB game last night, that's basically an out every time in MLB The Show 19.



Something about either the outfielders speed, jump and/or positioning allows them to essentially run up directly behind the infielders going back on balls. And I'm not talking about long hangtime popups. This happens on little flares like the one above.

The positioning problem is especially true of sluggers. I know Gallo is an extreme example, but it was an easy thing to do an image search for. Sluggers are usually within 20 feet of the warning track in the pull field. This is simply not the case in MLB The Show and it results in a lot of balls being caught that I feel should fall in.



Here's the Yadier Molina example from last night's game as well. I promise this ball is either stopped before the wall in The Show, or the OF picks it up and throws out Molina (and his zero speed rating) before he gets to 2b in the show more often than not.



In summary, it feels like the outfielder positioning depth needs some tweaking (and perhaps that means more balls need to get hit further to keep the balance with hits and outs), and balls hit down into the corner need some work. Either it's outfielder speed or positioning or some combination of both.

I'd love to hear others thoughts on the topic. Again, love the game, this is just one aspect where it could use a bit more realism.

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I do wish there was more versatility in outfield positioning. I wish that hitting tendencies mattered more than they do, and players were positioned more toward those tendencies.

Without going into a lot of detail, one of the most necessary changes for me (and a lot of other people) is to drop fielder speed and reaction by quite a bit. I see a lot more balls drop between fielders (but still a realistic amount - Its not often) and balls in the corners end up usually being stand up doubles even for slow guys. Fast guys can leg out a realistic amount of triples.

Some people refuse to use sliders (even though in reality they STILL are using sliders - But they're just using Sliders someone else chose for them - without even knowing the person, their skill, their style of play, their difficulty level, or their hitting/pitching interfaces), but to me it is absolutely neccessary because all these factors change things, per person.

For the correct amount of balls in play to end up as singles, doubles, and triples, adjusting both fielding sliders is a must. And it's usually one of the first things i change before anything else. Even a larger percentage of fly balls should land in play for hits than most people realize. (Although obviously still a small amount).

[Vercingetirex]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Sliders do help on reaction and speed, but i wonder if there is a scale issue. The games fields are actually smaller compared to the player models than it would be in real life for example.

[jmel07]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Sliders do help on reaction and speed, but i wonder if there is a scale issue. The games fields are actually smaller compared to the player models than it would be in real life for example.

I feel like on the player model to scale point that this was addressed this year. I didn't play much of 18 at all, but when I jumped into 19 I noticed what I thought was a large scale overhaul of the outfield dimensions and player scale within those dimensions. Do you feel that way?

[jmel07]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Without going into a lot of detail, one of the most necessary changes for me (and a lot of other people) is to drop fielder speed and reaction by quite a bit. I see a lot more balls drop between fielders (but still a realistic amount - Its not often) and balls in the corners end up usually being stand up doubles even for slow guys. Fast guys can leg out a realistic amount of triples.

I was resisting this, but only because I don't tinker much until I've played a really large amount of games. I did grab an early slider set (which I do each year), but I generally don't even check back in on that for at least a few months worth of Franchise games. I don't like to over-react early on.

However, when playing with the Brewers and having speed demons like Jesus Aguilar, Mike Moustakas and Yasmani Grandal - you tend to notice that balls ripped down into the corner are turning into outs instead of doubles with alarming frequency.

[stealyerface]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Default speed, for both outfielders and infielders is too fast. By a lot.

But, when you nerf the outfielders with speed and reaction, then the baserunners have too much of advantage.

What you need is the perfect combination of arm strength, outfielder speed, and baserunner speed to keep the game balanced, and to keep it looking realistic.

If you search, and not too hard, you will find some really great slider sets, and you can start to see a lot more realistic outcomes happening with regards to outfielders getting to hits, balls in the corner, and what ought to be stand up doubles, actually being stand-up doubles.

The game's default speed allows too many north-south gap balls (between the infielders and outfielders) to be corralled by both fielding positions. It also does not allow for balls to get to the wall, or bounce around in the corners (east-west gaps), as again, they are just way too fast.

Once you adjust the speed for the fielders, the magic begins. Balls start to fall between the infield and outfield, and outfielders playing too shallow will begin to see balls going over their head, with no chance of running those balls down. Outfielders playing deep will not be able to run in and make catches on those balls that are hit into the shallow outfield, and balls down the line will make it to the wall, and bounce around allowing extra base hits.

Find a set of sliders that adjust the speed to realistic levels, and you'll have way more fun with the game.

Bonus** You'll have to actually position fielders defensively to play trends and shifts... You won't be getting away with blazing speed mid-level outfielders covering the ground they once did. And, you'll start to see the scale of field versus player really shine.

~syf

[Noiziv]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I think that the biggest problem is just the scale of the players compared to the fields. It has always been that way, however.

[stealyerface]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I think that the biggest problem is just the scale of the players compared to the fields. It has always been that way, however.

Try a game or two with the camera for defense set at Dynamic. This gives a really great sense of the size/scale/fielder coverage, without hindering the gameplay.

~syf

[papadell]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Sliders do help on reaction and speed, but i wonder if there is a scale issue. The games fields are actually smaller compared to the player models than it would be in real life for example.

My biggest complaint has been the number of balls that don't bloop in over infielders. And scaling was something I felt caused it because the fielders seem too tall and the infield not deep enough and they just range back and catch balls that should nestle in as bloopers

[jmel07]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I think that the biggest problem is just the scale of the players compared to the fields. It has always been that way, however.

Would you agree or disagree that they took a shot at improving this? I feel like it was a large step forward. And that may totally be one of the issues. I just feel like the outfields got much bigger this year, but as others have suggested, the speeds keep it feeling smaller than it should.

[Noiziv]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

Would you agree or disagree that they took a shot at improving this? I feel like it was a large step forward. And that may totally be one of the issues. I just feel like the outfields got much bigger this year, but as others have suggested, the speeds keep it feeling smaller than it should.

I can’t say I’ve noticed a difference in this year’s game. I use the Broadcast camera for both hitting and fielding, and have for a couple of years now, if that makes a difference at all. I feel like both baserunners and fielders are much more...athletic(?) in this year’s game. Everyone feels like they move pretty quickly, even people with 1 speed can score from first on a ball in the gap. On the same spectrum, outfielders get to the ball way too quickly on balls down the line.

I am actually testing out FenwayMac’s speed sliders as we speak. I do feel like it gives a more natural balance and definitely slows down the pace of the game (in a good way, if that makes sense).

[Caulfield]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

lol I just posted a few days ago I wish I could bunch up/squeeze my outfielders into centerfield but I was only thinking about doing that at the Polo Grounds . I'll concede a cheap tater into the short left/right porches but the triples I give up there compound matters worse . however , this thread makes me wish indeed I could move my outfielders into all sorts configuration

[Vercingetirex]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

A few sliders that help make it it feel more real, allowing both bloopers over infielders to drop in and balls to the corners for doubles are as follows:

Fielder speed - 4
Fielder reaction - 4
OF throw strength - 4
IF throw strength - 4
Baserunner speed - Leave at 5

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

I think that the biggest problem is just the scale of the players compared to the fields. It has always been that way, however.

Using different cameras will give a distorted view and some make it seem its out of scale, due to zoom level etc...

I knew a huge baseball nerd that actually attemped to measure this in MLB 18. How embarrassing for him. Smh...

But by having a 6 foot player dive, so he is stretched out on the ground, and going into replay, zooming out evenly to see the baseline, and then measuring the diving guy, heel to crown of head at 3", and measuring the baseline at 45" the infield turned out to be accurate size for a 6' player and 90' bases. Also zooming out to see the entire field, measuring home to the wall at Globe Life Park, the ratios were correct to the infield bases. So from that "very scientific" way of determining sizes, he concluded the scale was correct, or at least very close, in MLB 18.

I still can't believe I... I mean he... did that. I mean who does that??

[NolanRyansSnowmonkey]

Re: Defensive Positioning & Gameplay

lol I just posted a few days ago I wish I could bunch up/squeeze my outfielders into centerfield but I was only thinking about doing that at the Polo Grounds . I'll concede a cheap tater into the short left/right porches but the triples I give up there compound matters worse . however , this thread makes me wish indeed I could move my outfielders into all sorts configuration

At the polo grounds you need a rover. Maybe they can add that for '20...