Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

**Brian SCEA** · 03-13-2020, 06:25 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by COMMISSIONERHBK9

So Brian just to clarify for directional it best to don’t influence and just worry about timing correct ? Cuz I tried zone and I feel I’m not doing that correctly. I been playing mlb every year and I always go thru this with hitting lol.

I'm not the best hitting coach, but this is from my answer to a similar question:

The more important goal starting out is to focus on taking bad pitches and getting the right timing. When you have that down, then focus on pitch quadrant and influence. I.e. the learning progression being: a) not swinging on a ball, b) using good timing when you do swing, c) reacting to pitch location (with timing + influence).<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

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When you try to learn all three things at a time, I don't think you'll do well. If you want to learn to juggle 4 balls first learn how to juggle 2 then 3. But maybe someone else knows better.

All I can speak of is to how things are implemented and designed. For example, bad influences hurt and good influences help - so influencing randomly isn't going to be better than focusing on timing alone. Whereas consistent good influence input is better than no input. The interfaces are designed to also reward individual multiple skills a through c, so that you can progress in skill and hitting has a wide differentiation between skill levels. And moreover, each player has a way to showcase his individual strengths even when he has the overall disadvantage.

To give one example of the result of that design, I think last time we gathered the data a Legend player compared to an Allstar player is something like hitting .355 versus .250 with all other things being equal. Rookie would be .145 (comparable to a pitcher hitting). Or put another way, Legend vs Allstar is like .250 versus .145 - an MLB team hitting against a team full of pitchers hitting. Of course, any one of those pitchers can hit a home run and any one of those top players could strike out - we're talking only over the long run.

The moral is - what you do matters, and skill matters (in the long run).

**ManicManday** · 03-13-2020, 06:48 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by Brian SCEA

Directional or Zone is personal preference. As far as the main hitting engine goes, both interfaces are identical (Directional simulates your PCI placement for you and passes it to the engine). In Zone hitting you pick the timing and PCI location. In Directional you pick the timing and influence PCI location (or if you don't influence, it picks for you). For this reason it is better not to influence than to influence randomly and get it half right and half wrong (in that situation you are better off paying attention to location and taking pitches).

I would compare it to manual vs automatic shifting for driving. If you are below average in stick shifting, you are better off using automatic where it handles it for you. Your disadvantage is 'forgiven' though you gain nothing extra for it. If you are above average in stick shifting, you are better off using stick to 'earn' that advantage. This is why professional drivers have to use stick to compete at the highest levels because even a small edge adds up, but you can drive perfectly well either way. In fact automatic accelerates faster than manual and doesn't lose energy to shifts, losing out only because manual is smarter and more efficient in other ways.

For this reason, some players succeed more with Directional, others succeed more with Zone. As you approach Legend difficulty, it becomes more important to use Zone because you have 2 ways to outperform rather than 1 1/2. There is no inherent disadvantage to Directional but you miss out on 1/2 a way to shine. So Zone is not significantly more successful in general. For beginners, Directional is often more successful. To be precise, it depends on if you are above or below average in skill at PCI placement (compared to your 2 other skills - timing and take pitch).

Thank you for this! I can finally stop having so many questions and concerns about directional hitting vs zone.

**TheWarmWind** · 03-13-2020, 07:44 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by Brian SCEA

Directional or Zone is personal preference. As far as the main hitting engine goes, both interfaces are identical (Directional simulates your PCI placement for you and passes it to the engine). In Zone hitting you pick the timing and PCI location. In Directional you pick the timing and influence PCI location (or if you don't influence, it picks for you). For this reason it is better not to influence than to influence randomly and get it half right and half wrong (in that situation you are better off paying attention to location and taking pitches).

I would compare it to manual vs automatic shifting for driving. If you are below average in stick shifting, you are better off using automatic where it handles it for you. Your disadvantage is 'forgiven' though you gain nothing extra for it. If you are above average in stick shifting, you are better off using stick to 'earn' that advantage. This is why professional drivers have to use stick to compete at the highest levels because even a small edge adds up, but you can drive perfectly well either way. In fact automatic accelerates faster than manual and doesn't lose energy to shifts, losing out only because manual is smarter and more efficient in other ways.

For this reason, some players succeed more with Directional, others succeed more with Zone. As you approach Legend difficulty, it becomes more important to use Zone because you have 2 ways to outperform rather than 1 1/2. There is no inherent disadvantage to Directional but you miss out on 1/2 a way to shine. So Zone is not significantly more successful in general. For beginners, Directional is often more successful. To be precise, it depends on if you are above or below average in skill at PCI placement (compared to your 2 other skills - timing and take pitch).

So does this mean my Directional hitting guide is complete bunk?

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ing-guide.html

I don't mind if it is, I would just like to know.

**Therebelyell626** · 03-13-2020, 08:37 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by Brian SCEA

Directional or Zone is personal preference. As far as the main hitting engine goes, both interfaces are identical (Directional simulates your PCI placement for you and passes it to the engine). In Zone hitting you pick the timing and PCI location. In Directional you pick the timing and influence PCI location (or if you don't influence, it picks for you). For this reason it is better not to influence than to influence randomly and get it half right and half wrong (in that situation you are better off paying attention to location and taking pitches).

I would compare it to manual vs automatic shifting for driving. If you are below average in stick shifting, you are better off using automatic where it handles it for you. Your disadvantage is 'forgiven' though you gain nothing extra for it. If you are above average in stick shifting, you are better off using stick to 'earn' that advantage. This is why professional drivers have to use stick to compete at the highest levels because even a small edge adds up, but you can drive perfectly well either way. In fact automatic accelerates faster than manual and doesn't lose energy to shifts, losing out only because manual is smarter and more efficient in other ways.

For this reason, some players succeed more with Directional, others succeed more with Zone. As you approach Legend difficulty, it becomes more important to use Zone because you have 2 ways to outperform rather than 1 1/2. There is no inherent disadvantage to Directional but you miss out on 1/2 a way to shine. So Zone is not significantly more successful in general. For beginners, Directional is often more successful. To be precise, it depends on if you are above or below average in skill at PCI placement (compared to your 2 other skills - timing and take pitch).

Good info brian. Thanks for the clarification. Game playing great

**Therebelyell626** · 03-13-2020, 08:39 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by Brian SCEA

A few years back we changed timing feedback so that Good is wider, so it includes some concept of both 'good early' and 'good late' (this depends on pitch location - on an away pitch being slightly late is fine). Unfortunately there isn't a good way to show both meanings of timing: a) your timing was good for that pitch location, b) the exact early/late/direction of your timing more precisely. We've experimented but simple beats out the other versions we tried.

Essentially, the direction of the hit off the bat will tell you the more precise early/late timing you had, after factoring in location. The swing analysis timing field tells you something more that isn't as obvious.

This makes sense. Thanks for addressing the issue in an informative way. Appreciate your guys hard work

**Brian SCEA** · 03-13-2020, 11:24 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by TheWarmWind

So does this mean my Directional hitting guide is complete bunk?

https://forums.operationsports.com/f...ing-guide.html
I don't mind if it is, I would just like to know.

I looked through it and it's hard to say, I could make the case either way.

For example:
"No influence increases the impact of hot/cold zones for your hitter"

There is no mechanic that specifically does this. However, since you have 1 1/2 inputs (timing + '1/2' PCI) instead of 2 (timing + PCI), in a sense this makes timing worth more (it is now worth 2/3 of your success rather than 1/2). In the same way, you could argue that paying attention to hot and cold zones matters more. However, I would guess that there are more important things that come first. There is some general truth to the idea that 'less input means the inputs remaining matter more' but it is not dramatic.

It is definitely true that high pitches are more for power, versus low pitches, since flyballs care about power (HR versus an out) more than groundballs (single vs an out). But the relationship is not that you gain more power, just that power is more important for that strategy. So you could state 'going for flyballs / high pitches' is more viable with high power hitters than low power hitters. In an extreme example, pitchers are known for flying out all the time and don't necessarily want to go for flyballs or high pitches (but they should also swing well at whatever they can regardless). Important is that you do not gain significant power just for swinging at a high pitch or influencing up.

The same goes on for the rest of the guide. I didn't see anything that wasn't based on some truth, and it might be great for coaching someone at hitting. All I can speak of is how hitting works from input to output. And it is always very hard to use one to interpret the other.

Feel free to use or quote anything I've said. I'm only providing information and I'll even be putting some summary of this into the next strategy guide. I like to think that knowledge should always be free and doesn't belong to anyone.

**TheWarmWind** · 03-13-2020, 11:44 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by Brian SCEA

I looked through it and it's hard to say, I could make the case either way.

For example:
"No influence increases the impact of hot/cold zones for your hitter"

There is no mechanic that specifically does this. However, since you have 1 1/2 inputs (timing + '1/2' PCI) instead of 2 (timing + PCI), in a sense this makes timing worth more (it is now worth 2/3 of your success rather than 1/2). In the same way, you could argue that paying attention to hot and cold zones matters more. However, I would guess that there are more important things that come first. There is some general truth to the idea that 'less input means the inputs remaining matter more' but it is not dramatic.

It is definitely true that high pitches are more for power, versus low pitches, since flyballs care about power (HR versus an out) more than groundballs (single vs an out). But the relationship is not that you gain more power, just that power is more important for that strategy. So you could state 'going for flyballs / high pitches' is more viable with high power hitters than low power hitters. In an extreme example, pitchers are known for flying out all the time and don't necessarily want to go for flyballs or high pitches (but they should also swing well at whatever they can regardless). Important is that you do not gain significant power just for swinging at a high pitch or influencing up.

The same goes on for the rest of the guide. I didn't see anything that wasn't based on some truth, and it might be great for coaching someone at hitting. All I can speak of is how hitting works from input to output. And it is always very hard to use one to interpret the other.

Feel free to use or quote anything I've said. I'm only providing information and I'll even be putting some summary of this into the next strategy guide. I like to think that knowledge should always be free and doesn't belong to anyone.

Thank you very much for taking the time to look at the thread and respond.

I understand you can't give a solid yes or no answer as the guide, as it's become a massive post, and it's also impossible to deny an effect is happening in such a complex system.

I greatly appreciate any contribution, and I also welcome anyone's utilization of the thread for any reason.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Operation Sports mobile app

**HighCmpPct** · 03-14-2020, 02:31 AM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

My approach to directional hitting.
https://forums.operationsports.com/f...l-hitting.html

**PhantomPain** · 03-21-2020, 12:36 AM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by Brian SCEA

I'm not the best hitting coach, but this is from my answer to a similar question:

[I][COLOR=black]The more important goal starting out is to focus on taking bad pitches and getting the right timing. When you have that down, then focus on pitch quadrant and influence. I.e. the learning progression being: a) not swinging on a ball, b) using good timing when you do swing, c) reacting to pitch location (with timing + influence).

So the bolded above made me question something that I thought was correct. Should influencing the swing be something that happens before and during the pitch (hold the influence in the direction as the pitch is coming) or should it happen simultaneously as you are swinging? Or does it matter?

**Rmiok222** · 03-21-2020, 03:30 AM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by PhantomPain

So the bolded above made me question something that I thought was correct. Should influencing the swing be something that happens before and during the pitch (hold the influence in the direction as the pitch is coming) or should it happen simultaneously as you are swinging? Or does it matter?

This has been my question for years! Lol

Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

**knucklecutter** · 03-21-2020, 10:33 AM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Well technically the thought of the influence should be done before the swing. The batter has a game plan on what he's trying to accomplish he just has to actually make it happen during the swing. As far as the game goes you can turn on the indicator and see if it works before you swing by tapping the direction or if you have to hold the stick in the direction the whole time or not.

**PhantomPain** · 03-21-2020, 11:22 AM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by knucklecutter

Well technically the thought of the influence should be done before the swing. The batter has a game plan on what he's trying to accomplish he just has to actually make it happen during the swing. As far as the game goes you can turn on the indicator and see if it works before you swing by tapping the direction or if you have to hold the stick in the direction the whole time or not.

That’s how I’ve always thought it was but the way Brian worded it made me think it might be another way.

As for the indicator, mine must be broke because in directional no matter how I hold it, it never moves from center.

**knucklecutter** · 03-21-2020, 11:33 AM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by PhantomPain

That’s how I’ve always thought it was but the way Brian worded it made me think it might be another way.

As for the indicator, mine must be broke because in directional no matter how I hold it, it never moves from center.

With directional if you turn on the plate coverage indicator you don't see the blue arrow changing positions by hitting the left analog stick?

**Caulfield** · 03-21-2020, 12:07 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

Originally posted by Brian SCEA

Feel free to use or quote anything I've said. I'm only providing information and I'll even be putting some summary of this into the next strategy guide.

whoa, back it up, back it up. beep, beep, beep.

where might one acquire this strategy guide?

**Yubalmelo** · 03-21-2020, 12:18 PM

Re: Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

I think i'm the only one that doesn't use the directional. I just wait for the right pitch and i just press X and the batter will follow the ball. If it is a high ball or a low ball he will follow and it makes it easier for me.

Directional Hitting in MLB The Show 20

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