Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

[hyacinth1]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

RTTS (the most popular mode in the game) and Franchise will be impacted. There is a risk that roster shares, CAPs and so on may also been impacted.

In a worst-case where there is no means to perpetuate rosters forward, that "99.9%" that are unaffected may very well be more like 30% (and if you have/will ever used/use a roster from the vault, you too will be impacted).

While many here may be "over-reacting" (myself included), I feel like you're doing the opposite - I don't think you fully appreciate the impact that this could have (either that, or you're just trolling).

Could the benefits outweigh this issue down the road? Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that (depending on the breadth of this issue - which none of us know right now) it could have a significant impact on the community.

why is it these days that if someone doesn't agree with another it's trolling?

Im just giving you the reality. I'm the messenger here. Outside of OS, the majority of players who play THE SHOW don't give a crap about carry over save files. There was a survey i remember reading here a few years ago SDS did and franchise and other traditional modes were way down on the list. We all know what was #1 on the list : DD.

It's just annoying that they haven't even released the majority of details about the game but everyone here is having a hissy fit saying they're done w/ 21 because of this and that based on minimal information.

Yes we dont know if we will have vaults or roster saves but let's wait and see before what they will tell us about the game before jumping off a bridge.

[speels]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

So, to try to see a bright side to this I was playing The Show last night and in noticed that I could choose to use a Show19 or Show20 Roster and slider. SO if I had a roster from the Show19 I could use that in my Show 20 game.

So this got me thinking. Sony said no carryover Franchise saves, but it did not say anything about rosters or sliders. What that could mean is that I could download say Bacon's roster onto my PS4 for The Show20, then in The Show21, use that roster but save it as a Show21 roster. Then I can use it in my franchise.

I mean it doesn't allow me to carryover my existing franchise roster, but that may allow us to start new franchises with the rosters that we want. But perhaps you could export and import your rosters from your existing franchise into just a Show20 Roster then upload that into 21.

Just hopefully thinking.

[hyacinth1]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

So, to try to see a bright side to this I was playing The Show last night and in noticed that I could choose to use a Show19 or Show20 Roster and slider. SO if I had a roster from the Show19 I could use that in my Show 20 game.

So this got me thinking. Sony said no carryover Franchise saves, but it did not say anything about rosters or sliders. What that could mean is that I could download say Bacon's roster onto my PS4 for The Show20, then in The Show21, use that roster but save it as a Show21 roster. Then I can use it in my franchise.

I mean it doesn't allow me to carryover my existing franchise roster, but that may allow us to start new franchises with the rosters that we want. But perhaps you could export and import your rosters from your existing franchise into just a Show20 Roster then upload that into 21.

Just hopefully thinking.

ya exactly, we don't know yet. Let's give SDS the chance to inform us before reacting or overreacting. It's only fair.

[JoshC1977]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

I was going to respond to the other points of your last post...but honestly, it all boils down to this.

Yes we dont know if we will have vaults or roster saves but let's wait and see before what they will tell us about the game before jumping off a bridge.

People have been telling you that it DOES NOT MATTER to them! Folks are going to say, "Listen, I don't care what they do...the inability to move my Franchise/RTTS forward kills it." There ARE things that can absolutely kill ones interest in a game...because it is literally THAT important to them. This is no different than saying "I'm not buying a game because it is online-only".

If people were going-off saying things, "This game doesn't have Y2Y saves, it is garbage!" - I'd be right there with you saying that people were being unreasonable.

They aren't...they're saying "This game doesn't have Y2Y saves, and that's a big enough issue for me that no matter what else SDS does, I am not going to buy it".

It IS possible to say, "This is a good game, but not for me".

[TheWarmWind]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

I was going to post a new thread for this, but it seems the forums aren't letting me right now, so I'll just put it here.

Let me first start off by saying: This is supposition and an opinion piece. I have no access to insider information.

Here goes:

Why we Might not get Carry-Overs back for MLB 22, and why that Might be a Good Thing

I loved the carry-over save when it was announced. Finally, I didn't have to choose between the team that I'd been building and getting attached to and whatever new features popped up in each new iteration of the Show.

I love carry-overs still. I've had the pleasure of playing the same team from 2014, watching my 1rst round draft of that year develop into my current ace, watch trades I made flourish or bust. Over the slow course of time, playing every pitch and every inning, I molded this team, and I can say with confidence today that the team I play today is uniquely mine.

I got to do all of that while also enjoying many upgrades throughout the years. While I'm just as frustrated as everyone else about the lack of needed improvements to Franchise, there no doubt has been some improvement to the mode, and while most were unwanted/unasked for, many have become essential parts of the experience to me (Quick manage, front page, contract extensions, to name a few).

As time wore on though, I became more an more suspicious that year to year saves were holding the mode back as much as they were helping. My two biggest wishes for improvement were roster expansions and revamping the progression/regression system. The more I thought about it, the more difficult of a task it seemed to integrate those changes into a carry-over function. It's a difficult task even when you just look at it from a conceptual standpoint, never mind the monumental task of actually programming it.

The foundation of a players attributes needed to be revamped. There was no real way to generate that for carry over players, who have a hard limit on their attributes and data that can be transferred over between games. The only solutions I could think of were randomized attributes or a hard reset on year to year saves. The former solution may have let us keep carry-overs in some fashion, but would have likely cause a degradation spiral for game quality (in said year to year saves). A hard reset is a cleaner solution. Sometimes the best solution is still an awful one. All of this is just exploring one aspect that may have been holding franchise back. There may have been more that I didn't think about.

It's possible that SDS just dropped year-to-year saves due to time constraints or an unwillingness to keep supporting it. That would be very disappointing, however, I don't believe that's true for two reasons:

1. It comes at a time when SDS is claiming to be bringing big franchise changes. That is more then a little coincidental.

2. SDS has shown immense passion, not just for the game of baseball, but for its fans and the community. It's not like them to drop a feature like this without reason.

I suspect they want to bring it back. Call it a hunch if nothing else. So why do I think it might not come back for 22, and that it would be a good thing?

Think about it, if all of what I said so far happened to be true, then we had a system (year-to-year saves) that held back needed changes to franchise for years. Committing to carry-overs in 22 would lock them into whatever systems they created in 21. What if long term/massive data sets show that the new system for progression/regression requires tweaking, or even a new feature? What if in 22 SDS feels confident in ditching the last generation of hardware, opening up even more roster spots or ability to integrate new features into the foundation of Franchise?

Assuming that you'll work out all the kinks after 6 years of stagnation of the system is arrogant and wrong. I think they do want to bring back year to year saves, but they want to be sure the foundation is something they'll be proud of, and will be proud of 10 years from now, as opposed to needing another reset.

I could be wrong about all of this, and we hardcore franchise lovers could be getting the shaft yet again. However, this one piece of (admittedly devastatingly) bad news could be a sign of great things to come, and non-committal messaging from SDS on the subject of year-to-year saves has the potential to mean something very positive.

[Armor and Sword]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

I was going to post a new thread for this, but it seems the forums aren't letting me right now, so I'll just put it here.



Let me first start off by saying: This is supposition and an opinion piece. I have no access to insider information.



Here goes:

Why we Might not get Carry-Overs back for MLB 22, and why that Might be a Good Thing

I loved the carry-over save when it was announced. Finally, I didn't have to choose between the team that I'd been building and getting attached to and whatever new features popped up in each new iteration of the Show.



I love carry-overs still. I've had the pleasure of playing the same team from 2014, watching my 1rst round draft of that year develop into my current ace, watch trades I made flourish or bust. Over the slow course of time, playing every pitch and every inning, I molded this team, and I can say with confidence today that the team I play today is uniquely mine.



I got to do all of that while also enjoying many upgrades throughout the years. While I'm just as frustrated as everyone else about the lack of needed improvements to Franchise, there no doubt has been some improvement to the mode, and while most were unwanted/unasked for, many have become essential parts of the experience to me (Quick manage, front page, contract extensions, to name a few).



As time wore on though, I became more an more suspicious that year to year saves were holding the mode back as much as they were helping. My two biggest wishes for improvement were roster expansions and revamping the progression/regression system. The more I thought about it, the more difficult of a task it seemed to integrate those changes into a carry-over function. It's a difficult task even when you just look at it from a conceptual standpoint, never mind the monumental task of actually programming it.



The foundation of a players attributes needed to be revamped. There was no real way to generate that for carry over players, who have a hard limit on their attributes and data that can be transferred over between games. The only solutions I could think of were randomized attributes or a hard reset on year to year saves. The former solution may have let us keep carry-overs in some fashion, but would have likely cause a degradation spiral for game quality (in said year to year saves). A hard reset is a cleaner solution. Sometimes the best solution is still an awful one. All of this is just exploring one aspect that may have been holding franchise back. There may have been more that I didn't think about.



It's possible that SDS just dropped year-to-year saves due to time constraints or an unwillingness to keep supporting it. That would be very disappointing, however, I don't believe that's true for two reasons:



1. It comes at a time when SDS is claiming to be bringing big franchise changes. That is more then a little coincidental.



2. SDS has shown immense passion, not just for the game of baseball, but for its fans and the community. It's not like them to drop a feature like this without reason.



I suspect they want to bring it back. Call it a hunch if nothing else. So why do I think it might not come back for 22, and that it would be a good thing?



Think about it, if all of what I said so far happened to be true, then we had a system (year-to-year saves) that held back needed changes to franchise for years. Committing to carry-overs in 22 would lock them into whatever systems they created in 21. What if long term/massive data sets show that the new system for progression/regression requires tweaking, or even a new feature? What if in 22 SDS feels confident in ditching the last generation of hardware, opening up even more roster spots or ability to integrate new features into the foundation of Franchise?



Assuming that you'll work out all the kinks after 6 years of stagnation of the system is arrogant and wrong. I think they do want to bring back year to year saves, but they want to be sure the foundation is something they'll be proud of, and will be proud of 10 years from now, as opposed to needing another reset.



I could be wrong about all of this, and we hardcore franchise lovers could be getting the shaft yet again. However, this one piece of (admittedly devastatingly) bad news could be a sign of great things to come, and non-committal messaging from SDS on the subject of year-to-year saves has the potential to mean something very positive.

Outstanding post. I really hope and I think I speak for a lot of people here that this is exactly the case.

And if it is this franchise can go to new heights.

I think for those of us staying on PS4 (and that was my entire point) another year at least, it made our decision to pass on the game (at least at full retail) a very easy decision. There is a strong contingency of players here on OS that have been pouring 1000’s of hours into their franchise/RTTS files since MLB 14 when they introduced this feature.

So let’s hope.




Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[ninertravel]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

Yeah because the default rosters this year were so good?

"C'mon Man"

Exactly!! I mean remember guys like Lux and Puk were not even on it.. a lot of it wasn't Ridins fault either it was paperwork etc with MLBPLA

there is one way you can do it from scratch that is LOOOOONG time consuming. but it also depends if edit player is exactly the same too. you get your phone take a video of the edited player in MLB 20 with all the variables then open mlb 21 and create the player.

I used to do this in a franchise seeing there was no import player option. but this depends if edit player is the same options as well. That is a option that takes a long time but faster then creating a face from scratch.

[ninertravel]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

One thing to keep in mind is what exactly has changed from 20 to 21. If it’s just how franchise is structured then one could assume it’s just Y2Y franchise saves that are affected.

If they re-work how rosters are structured, such as adding or subtracting ratings (like more defensive metrics - pitch framing for catchers or other ratings to further separate other fielders) then roster transfers won’t work either.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

someone else thinking logically like me as well! glad it's not just me trying to sound like a no it all. I am just speculating and could be wrong. but this is what it sounds like. The move had to happen one day and I would take it over having the same thing over and over again. it's just a shame it happened this year when the game is already delayed when a lot of us just want to start a franchise during baseball season and carry it over.

[pantherfan076]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

So let’s get something straight.

This place “Operation Sports” is a community made up of your arbitrary number of .001% of Show players who care.


This community cares a lot. This community is very passionate about our amazing content creators and slider makers.

And I have actually no problem with SDS going in a new design direction they want with Franchise mode. Knowing them, it will probably be really good. It was overdue, I think we can all agree. But will it be what we have been clamoring for? No one knows that answer till the game drops.

But a ton of us have seen the tides turning on single player offline modes in sports games. And a lot of us have been around and sports gaming for over 3 decades. Reading the tea leaves has become easier and easier. So I can appreciate a lot of the apprehension many in “this” community have.

Posts that piss or in your case take a slight jab on the thoughts and opinions of this hardcore sports community are simply bad form IMO.

I for one am not sounding an alarm. I am merely making a conscience choice to pass on “this” years version of the game because it does not fit “my”needs as a die hard long time Show player.

I have faith MLB 22 can be a great game that I can hopefully consider purchasing for the PS5 if I want to let go of the incredible inventory of classic/fictional rosters I have on 20 and more importantly let go of a couple of franchises I started back on MLB 16 and 17 which have given me over 1500 hours of baseball joy.

A lot of us have become truly attached to carry over saves. It probably was the single greatest “franchise” feature ever introduced to console sports gaming. It was something many of us (according to you) in this paltry .001% dreamed about back when franchise modes became a thing in the early 2000’s.

So take it easy with the “it does not matter posts” in this particular part of the sandlot.

We are hardcore in here. This is our clubhouse. And everyone is welcome.

Just be cool man.

We got a big kick in the nuts. So take it easy on some of us who were passionate about carry over saves, and the roster makers....my god we are talking 10’s of thousands of hours of work....potentially done. It is the end of a true era for roster modders for MLB The Show. Hopefully a new era will begin. Hopefully.

Will we have a vault?
Will we have Sounds of The Show?

A lot of questions unanswered at this point.

But losing Y2Y is a huge deal to this MLB The Show forum.

Peace man.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

All I know is IF there are no year to year saves I may cry after all the work I put in MLB20 to prepare for MLB21!

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

If you're buying a next gen console, 20 got new life in true 4k. Keep playing 20 if you are in love with your rosters or franchise. 20 is arguably the greatest sports game of all-time.

As TWW said, a reset isn't a bad thing here.

Yes, its a shame we lose some really great rosters. But PC will change the game. Once we get a roster editor... there aren't words for how that will change the roster process. Infinitely better. Immediately. And we'll really be on the edge if greatness if we get under the hood of this thing (stadium editor, stat editor, uniform editor)

(... yes, I am well aware PC hasn't been announced yet. We all know its coming)

My $0.02, take it or leave it..

[ninertravel]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

See a few things scare me about if they change franchise if they pull a EA here and take things out and take years to put it back in things like

30 team control ( I stopped buying madden after this it they haven't changed it since (yes you can spend 30 mins creating 30 profiles to do it )

roster editing usually if they really have completely re-done franchise they might decide to lock out editing within Franchise. when Madden made the switch to PS3 I remember the first year that was locked out and you couldn't do anything.

With being able to edit service time MLB 20 might be my best friend for years to come because that basically makes it unlimited in roster making, I have a bad feeling a lot of these things will be locked with mlb 21 coming to xbox and if changes are made.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

See a few things scare me about if they change franchise if they pull a EA here and take things out and take years to put it back in things like

30 team control ( I stopped buying madden after this it they haven't changed it since (yes you can spend 30 mins creating 30 profiles to do it )

roster editing usually if they really have completely re-done franchise they might decide to lock out editing within Franchise. when Madden made the switch to PS3 I remember the first year that was locked out and you couldn't do anything.

There is no evidence SDS would do anything like that. It would be a new development. They have made incremental steps forward as long as I have purchased this product. Certainly can't be compared to the Empire.

.. and even if it was to happen; stick with 20 until they get their buisness in order! It is the best baseball game of all-time.

[ninertravel]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

There is no evidence SDS would do anything like that. It would be a new development. They have made incremental steps forward as long as I have purchased this product. Certainly can't be compared to the Empire.

.. and even if it was to happen; stick with 20 until they get their buisness in order! It is the best baseball game of all-time.

season mode was taken out... just saying you make a change some things don't come back or take years. it's one step forward and 3 steps back with these next gen moves sometimes

[Caulfield]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

...What exactly do we lose?

my best assumption as far as anything that has anything to do with MLB 20:

Spoiler

everything

[MLB14]

Re: Carry-over File Saves in MLB 21 .... What exactly do we Lose ?

Yes, its a shame we lose some really great rosters. But PC will change the game. Once we get a roster editor... there aren't words for how that will change the roster process.

(... yes, I am well aware PC hasn't been announced yet. We all know its coming)

I wonder when a PC version will be released. I've thought about how the community here would work with it. It's intriguing.