Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

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  • bigd51
    Aqua?!
    • Sep 2014
    • 627

    #1

    Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

    I moved away from Meter and started using Pure Analog years ago b/c to me, it just felt the most realistic in regards to the natural motion of the windup and pitch location. I've tried every option and even spent a ton of hours using Pulse recently, but I always end up going back to Pure Analog, which is why I was kinda confused when they introduced Pinpoint w/ the main reason being to give players an even more accurate option.

    Pure Analog, to me, is already insanely accurate enough. Even on Legend, I've never had any complaints in regards to where the ball ends up compared to where I was aiming. If I hit the yellow line on the down-stroke and place the marker in the middle of the circle on the up-stroke, 9 times out of 10 the ball goes exactly where I intended it to. Upping the difficulty and playing w/ low rated pitchers only seems to make the up-stroke a bit more touchy -- meaning it's a bit harder to get the marker to land in the circle. But other than that, as I said, if you hit the yellow line and land the marker in the circle, it's going to go where you intended it to w/ little-to-no deviation.

    With that said, I still figured I'd give Pinpoint a shot. I knew from the reveal video that it wasn't going to be easy to just jump into and that a lot of practice would have to go into it to really get the hang of it.

    But after a number of games and using multiple different pitchers, my early impressions leave me unimpressed. Not that it's a poorly made interface. In fact, it's very well made for a first iteration. My issue isn't exactly so much w/ the difficulty of the execution as much as it is w/ whether or not it's worth using for the boost in accuracy.

    Pure Analog only has two systems in place and fairly simple; the timing of the down-stroke when it hits the yellow line and the angle on the up-stroke to get into the top circle for horizontal ball-placement.

    (Yes, technically there's a third system where the speed of your up-stroke will supposedly affect the pitch velocity, but 99% of players go max velocity anyway and there's no real reason to NOT do so, which leaves that part of the interface moot)

    Pinpoint has three different systems in place:

    1. the pattern you have to follow w/ the right stick
    2. the speed in which you must follow that pattern to the top circle
    3. the timing of the down-stroke to the bottom circle.

    The 2nd step is where most -- if not all -- of your accuracy comes from and it is NOT forgiving. Pinpoint is surely accurate as all hell when you get it right, but even the slightest deviation of speed in which you have to follow the pattern can affect your accuracy greatly.

    A pitcher w/ a slow windup is fairly easy to handle, becoming slightly more difficult out of the stretch (as it does w/ Pure Analog and Meter). But even a guy like Kershaw pitching out of the stretch can be a world of difference from using a guy like Josh Hader, who has a crazy fast windup by default. Spend 7+ innings pitching w/ the former before switching to the latter and you'll likely be flailing all over the place to start. They weren't lying when they said that every pitcher will feel unique and come w/ their own challenges... and trust me when I say the 8 warm-up pitches you're given when substituting pitchers have never been more useful than they are now when using Pinpoint. I haven't even dared try to execute a slide-step yet...

    So while the option is as advertised in every way and really well done, I just don't see myself ever fully committing to it as my main pitching interface when Pure Analog is already accurate enough.

    If you're looking for a more challenging pitching interface and willing to invest several hours practicing to get really good at it, then this is definitely the option for you. But if a crazy accurate interface is all you're looking for, Pure Analog is still where it's at, IMO. I just don't believe Pinpoint is worth the time and effort you'd have to put into mastering it for the added accuracy (if that's what you're after) when the difference in accuracy b/w Pinpoint and Pure Analog is pretty marginal.
  • ChaseB
    #BringBackFaceuary
    • Oct 2003
    • 9655

    #2
    Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

    Yeah the points that get you close to nailing the pitch are certainly the pace of the motion and then the flick down on time to throw. I'll probably go back and forth as well, but I do think it's cool that there are clear positives and negatives that come through with this style of pitching. Some guys are harder to use from the stretch but they're also harder to steal on etc.
    I won't ask for Christmas or birthday gifts if you subscribe to the Operation Sports Newsletter (Not Just Another Roster Update). I write it, and it hits your inbox every Friday morning (for freeeeeee).

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    • cvantu
      Banned
      • Oct 2016
      • 353

      #3
      Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

      I didn't know I couldn't kick off a thread to post the tutorial video, but if this tutorial helps others on how pinpoint pitching works, I hope it is okay to put it in a relatable thread. Personally, the system has been very beneficial to me, especially when you figure out how each part of the mechanic affects the pitch outcome.

      Comment

      • bigd51
        Aqua?!
        • Sep 2014
        • 627

        #4
        Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

        Originally posted by ChaseB
        Yeah the points that get you close to nailing the pitch are certainly the pace of the motion and then the flick down on time to throw. I'll probably go back and forth as well, but I do think it's cool that there are clear positives and negatives that come through with this style of pitching. Some guys are harder to use from the stretch but they're also harder to steal on etc.


        For sure. It definitely adds more immersion to the game and actually improves features like the aforementioned 8-pitch warmup outside of simply being an uber-easy way to increase pitch confidence. I went into an 8-pitch warmup w/ Kenly Jansen and had to end it early b/c I couldn't get the timing down and didn't want to keep making my pitch confidence even worse before facing the first batter. I've never once ended a warmup early b/c of that and in some strange way, I kinda liked it. Despite it's difficulty, it's a great interface for those who want more of it.

        Because of the extra 3rd factor and increased difficulty/learning curve, though, it only served to negate the boost in accuracy compared to Pure Analog, personally. So I kept finding myself asking if it was worth going through the growing pains of trying to master Pinpoint when Pure Analog is already crazy accurate when done right.

        As it stand for me right now, the answer is a resounding "No." If the need for a greater challenge arises, I'll definitely be heading back to it.

        Comment

        • cvantu
          Banned
          • Oct 2016
          • 353

          #5
          Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

          Originally posted by bigd51
          For sure. It definitely adds more immersion to the game and actually improves features like the aforementioned 8-pitch warmup outside of simply being an uber-easy way to increase pitch confidence. I went into an 8-pitch warmup w/ Kenly Jansen and had to end it early b/c I couldn't get the timing down and didn't want to keep making my pitch confidence even worse before facing the first batter. I've never once ended a warmup early b/c of that and in some strange way, I kinda liked it. Despite it's difficulty, it's a great interface for those who want more of it.

          Because of the extra 3rd factor and increased difficulty/learning curve, though, it only served to negate the boost in accuracy compared to Pure Analog, personally. So I kept finding myself asking if it was worth going through the growing pains of trying to master Pinpoint when Pure Analog is already crazy accurate when done right.

          As it stand for me right now, the answer is a resounding "No." If the need for a greater challenge arises, I'll definitely be heading back to it.
          Don't give up on it.

          Comment

          • lemarflacco
            Banned
            • Mar 2018
            • 1002

            #6
            Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

            I am totally with you on the points you make.

            For me personally, I prefer a real life sim. And with pulse or meter I could never give up walks. I was forced to use a randomizer to see which guys I would walk during the game. I was forced to not throw a fastball on a full count to try and get walks.

            Im loving the difficulty of this mechanic and the fact that Its so hard to hit your spots.

            But I agree, if you are playing online, or just trying to hit your spots, I wouldn't use this.

            Comment

            • cvantu
              Banned
              • Oct 2016
              • 353

              #7
              Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

              Originally posted by lemarflacco
              I am totally with you on the points you make.

              For me personally, I prefer a real life sim. And with pulse or meter I could never give up walks. I was forced to use a randomizer to see which guys I would walk during the game. I was forced to not throw a fastball on a full count to try and get walks.

              Im loving the difficulty of this mechanic and the fact that Its so hard to hit your spots.

              But I agree, if you are playing online, or just trying to hit your spots, I wouldn't use this.
              Maybe it's because I've played so much 2k baseball that it didn't take long to get used to the pitching here, but as someone who has never played this series before, and using pinpoint pitching, I'm 6-1 in ranked, even beat a couple of PlayStation guys. Once you get the mechanic down, you will be pinpointing a good plenty of your spots. I even threw a perfect game against someone.

              Comment

              • Jr.
                Playgirl Coverboy
                • Feb 2003
                • 19219

                #8
                Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

                Originally posted by lemarflacco
                I am totally with you on the points you make.

                For me personally, I prefer a real life sim. And with pulse or meter I could never give up walks. I was forced to use a randomizer to see which guys I would walk during the game. I was forced to not throw a fastball on a full count to try and get walks.

                Im loving the difficulty of this mechanic and the fact that Its so hard to hit your spots.

                But I agree, if you are playing online, or just trying to hit your spots, I wouldn't use this.
                Try classic with vibration off if you're not walking enough guys and want ratings to have the greatest effect

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                Comment

                • Will I Am
                  Pro
                  • Nov 2013
                  • 919

                  #9
                  Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

                  Is the interface easier or harder depending on which level you play on?

                  Comment

                  • RainOnTim
                    Rookie
                    • Mar 2018
                    • 151

                    #10
                    Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

                    Originally posted by Will I Am
                    Is the interface easier or harder depending on which level you play on?
                    I don't think it's any easier on lower difficulties, but it is more forgiving. I could be wrong but I think you get graded the same for the same input on every difficulty but the PAR (region your pitch ends up) is smaller on lower difficulties.

                    I have to disagree so far with the original post. I was expecting it to be much harder to learn, but it's actually not that bad. I also find that the gesture part of the pitch is reasonably forgiving. Matching the speed seems to be much more important than the shape of the gesture, also you can get perfect releases with an 80% gesture, which is a pretty low bar.

                    I've seen tutorial videos saying that the final part of the delivery, hitting the circle at the bottom of the interface, is the part that contributes the most to accuracy. Anecdotal, but this is how it feels so far to me. Could be wrong though.

                    Comment

                    • cvantu
                      Banned
                      • Oct 2016
                      • 353

                      #11
                      Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

                      Originally posted by Will I Am
                      Is the interface easier or harder depending on which level you play on?
                      I'm playing on HOF at the moment. Honestly, I can't really tell between the different levels.

                      Comment

                      • cvantu
                        Banned
                        • Oct 2016
                        • 353

                        #12
                        Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

                        Originally posted by RainOnTim
                        I don't think it's any easier on lower difficulties, but it is more forgiving. I could be wrong but I think you get graded the same for the same input on every difficulty but the PAR (region your pitch ends up) is smaller on lower difficulties.

                        I have to disagree so far with the original post. I was expecting it to be much harder to learn, but it's actually not that bad. I also find that the gesture part of the pitch is reasonably forgiving. Matching the speed seems to be much more important than the shape of the gesture, also you can get perfect releases with an 80% gesture, which is a pretty low bar.

                        I've seen tutorial videos saying that the final part of the delivery, hitting the circle at the bottom of the interface, is the part that contributes the most to accuracy. Anecdotal, but this is how it feels so far to me. Could be wrong though.
                        I actually detail how pitch location is determined here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-cvivkDXyw

                        Yeah, the release timing and the end point determine your pitch location. It is the most important part of the mechanic. The release timing (the transition timing from end point of gesture to end point of release) determines how high and low the ball strays from your intended location. Early release goes high, late goes low. The end point match determines left and right, which the feedback actually tells you where you ended.

                        This is identical to MLB2K8

                        Comment

                        • RainOnTim
                          Rookie
                          • Mar 2018
                          • 151

                          #13
                          Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

                          Originally posted by cvantu
                          Early release goes high, late goes low. The end point match determines left and right, which the feedback actually tells you where you ended.

                          This is identical to MLB2K8
                          What about for sliders and other breaking pitches? I'm pretty sure early release means the ball will end up higher and off to the pitcher's arm side, while late will be lower and to the glove side all things being equal.

                          Comment

                          • cvantu
                            Banned
                            • Oct 2016
                            • 353

                            #14
                            Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

                            Originally posted by RainOnTim
                            What about for sliders and other breaking pitches? I'm pretty sure early release means the ball will end up higher and off to the pitcher's arm side, while late will be lower and to the glove side all things being equal.
                            Possibly, though I haven't noticed that. I've been pinpointing breaking balls as well as other pitches. I'm not saying that you're wrong or anything, just that what I mentioned has the obvious visual effects to pitch location. Really, the most important part, as you said, is the timing from the end point of gesture to end point of release. If people nail that one part down consistently, they'll be pitching like a pro.

                            Comment

                            • RainOnTim
                              Rookie
                              • Mar 2018
                              • 151

                              #15
                              Re: Pinpoint Pitching doesn't seem to be worth the boost in accuracy

                              Originally posted by cvantu
                              Possibly, though I haven't noticed that. I've been pinpointing breaking balls as well as other pitches. I'm not saying that you're wrong or anything, just that what I mentioned has the obvious visual effects to pitch location. Really, the most important part, as you said, is the timing from the end point of gesture to end point of release. If people nail that one part down consistently, they'll be pitching like a pro.
                              I could be wrong about this, but it always felt to me like that's how early/late release worked for breaking balls using meter. I'm assuming it's the same here. I'm assuming it's simulating the effect an early/late release has on breaking pitches in real life.

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