MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

[Mackrel829]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

Not to derail this but why would a division rival give the A's a very valuable player and let you keep your better prospects? I can't see a scenario where Gallo goes within the AL West unless its a big overpay

Well they're not exactly a rival. I'm trying to make the playoffs and the Rangers are the worst team in the league and in need of a rebuild. They recently traded in real life too.

I wanted to make sure I gave enough back, which is why I gave the much better pitcher instead of the low ceiling one. You don't think two A potential prospects and a decent young catcher is enough? Heard and Eierman both turn into studs 2023-2025 on my depth chart.

[GamecocksLaw17]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

Well they're not exactly a rival. I'm trying to make the playoffs and the Rangers are the worst team in the league and in need of a rebuild. They recently traded in real life too.

I wanted to make sure I gave enough back, which is why I gave the much better pitcher instead of the low ceiling one. You don't think two A potential prospects and a decent young catcher is enough? Heard and Eierman both turn into studs 2023-2025 on my depth chart.

I get where you're coming from using in game information. But in reality Eierman is a 24 year old in AA who is a 40fv prospect. Allen is an old prospect who might be a backup catcher if everything goes perfectly. And Taylor Heard is a completely made up prospect.

So basically the Rangers got a fictional prospect and minor league fodder for their best trade chip?

[Mackrel829]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

I get where you're coming from using in game information. But in reality Eierman is a 24 year old in AA who is a 40fv prospect. Allen is an old prospect who might be a backup catcher if everything goes perfectly. And Taylor Heard is a completely made up prospect.

So basically the Rangers got a fictional prospect and minor league fodder for their best trade chip?

Well you have to balance attempts at realism with in game factors. Allen is already starting for the Rangers (I just played against him), and prospects like Eierman are going to hit their potential far more often in game than in real life.

Heard might be a fictional prospect but we don't have full minor league rosters. I feel like it makes more sense to behave as if the As have him in real life than to pretend he's not on my roster.

Gallo's value isn't even that high according to the MLB trade simulator but is be happy to do the same package for Teoscar Hernandez if that would be more realistic than Gallo?

[dpower15]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

Waters value alone is higher than Story's. In a Story trade, you're looking more at a 2nd tier return...something along the lines of Muller, Harris and Shoemaker (#'s 4, 5 and 10 in Atlanta's system). Even that is an overpay of about $6-7 mil in surplus value. Alternatively, Langeliers+Harris would be pretty much flush with Story's value.

Think about the return that Baltimore got for Machado at the deadline? Not very good...

As for Blackmon-He has negative surplus value (-$37 mil) due to his age, contract and poor defence. What does this mean? You'd essentially have to give up Story+ just to get rid of his contract.

As for Hoerner? if you're skipping over "realistic" and just going for "fair" (Which is 100% fine IMO), Hoerner's current surplus value is pretty much the same as Story's. Prospect/young player-wise, if you gave up Rodgers+Doyle+Lambert, it would get you pretty close in terms of overall value.

I know you said you don't want to move him, but Marquez is your only trade chip that will bring back a top 25 prospect right now.

I ended up doing Story and Oberg for Langeliers and Touki.

If McMahon is having a great season (hitting over .300, 15 HR in mid-June), would him and Tapia (hitting .280 as my lead off) for Hoerner and Heyward potentially work if the Cubs are a fringe playoff team and both are hitting sub .220? I figure adding Heyward makes it closer since I’m guessing he has negative value given his contract. So basically for Hoerner the Cubs effectively upgrade current performance at both positions for a playoff push while also shedding a bad contract. Thoughts?


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[GamecocksLaw17]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

Well you have to balance attempts at realism with in game factors. Allen is already starting for the Rangers (I just played against him), and prospects like Eierman are going to hit their potential far more often in game than in real life.

Heard might be a fictional prospect but we don't have full minor league rosters. I feel like it makes more sense to behave as if the As have him in real life than to pretend he's not on my roster.

Gallo's value isn't even that high according to the MLB trade simulator but is be happy to do the same package for Teoscar Hernandez if that would be more realistic than Gallo?

That's fine but in the past this thread has been about creating realistic trades using realistic value unless the poster says otherwise. If that wasn't the goal of your trade then go ahead. But what you posted and what you traded would not be a realistic trade for Gallo.

[GamecocksLaw17]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

That's fine but in the past this thread has been about creating realistic trades using realistic value unless the poster says otherwise. If that wasn't the goal of your trade then go ahead. But what you posted and what you traded would not be a realistic trade for Gallo.

Sorry to quote myself here, but when you look into doing a trade like this you have to ask yourself, would you do the same trade if your team was giving up the MLB asset. Would the A's trade away Ramon Laureano for a 26 year old AAAA catcher, a team's 21st prospect and a made up prospect? If the answer is no, then why would the Rangers do the same deal for Joey Gallo?

[Mackrel829]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

Sorry to quote myself here, but when you look into doing a trade like this you have to ask yourself, would you do the same trade if your team was giving up the MLB asset. Would the A's trade away Ramon Laureano for a 26 year old AAAA catcher, a team's 21st prospect and a made up prospect? If the answer is no, then why would the Rangers do the same deal for Joey Gallo?

But my point is that you can't really factor in whether or not a prospect is real in terms of realism. There are no made up players in real life, but we can apply real life values to made up prospects.

If I had the top 3 prospects and they were all made up, that would be an incredibly enticing trade package. It wouldn't be worthless because they're fictional. You have to take real life values and apply them to the fictional players.

The pitcher that I traded would be very valuable in real life.

[GamecocksLaw17]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

But my point is that you can't really factor in whether or not a prospect is real in terms of realism. There are no made up players in real life, but we can apply real life values to made up prospects.

If I had the top 3 prospects and they were all made up, that would be an incredibly enticing trade package. It wouldn't be worthless because they're fictional. You have to take real life values and apply them to the fictional players.

The pitcher that I traded would be very valuable in real life.

Where was he picked in the draft? We could use historical draft results to determine it. The A's have the 25th pick in the draft which is usually a 45fv prospect. So the package includes 0 top-100 prospects. Again, your franchise so do what you want but historically we used this thread for a different purpose. If this isn't how we will handle the thread this year I am more than happy to bow out and let you guys proceed as you wish

[Mackrel829]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

Where was he picked in the draft? We could use historical draft results to determine it. The A's have the 25th pick in the draft which is usually a 45fv prospect. So the package includes 0 top-100 prospects. Again, your franchise so do what you want but historically we used this thread for a different purpose. If this isn't how we will handle the thread this year I am more than happy to bow out and let you guys proceed as you wish

Well no, the whole reason that I created the thread was to ensure that I had a place to go to find people more knowledgeable than me about trade values in MLB. I want to make a realistic trade and am happy to trade back if it isn't realistic.

I posted a trade and received advice that it was plausible, then actually ended up giving over more than the original package that got the green light. If it's not plausible then I'd like to take it back.

My issue was the assertion that a fictional player holds no value simply because they're fictional. I'd like to operate using realistic values. I'm not too fussed if I'm trading for/away fictional players as long as I'm assigning them the value that they would have if they were to exist in real life.

[Friar Fanatic]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

2 near MLB ready players that are both A potential in game would be top 100 specs easily, maybe top 50 specs.

In real life, nobody would give up 2 top 100 specs for Gallo, so if anything in that deal the Rangers got the better end of it since both specs have an ETA of 2022 and would be top 100 based on their potential.

Real life goes out the window when dealing with fictional players in franchise. For example, if someone posts a trade that occurs in the year 2025 with fictional prospects, you need to look at their potential and what that value equates to top 100 wise.

To dismiss it because irl they are ranked differently is stupid. I.e. Lordes Gurriel Jr is an 86 ovr and 88 pot player. He would command more of a return than he would in real life based on his ratings

[Beastboy2335]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

2 near MLB ready players that are both A potential in game would be top 100 specs easily, maybe top 50 specs.

In real life, nobody would give up 2 top 100 specs for Gallo, so if anything in that deal the Rangers got the better end of it since both specs have an ETA of 2022 and would be top 100 based on their potential.

Real life goes out the window when dealing with fictional players in franchise. For example, if someone posts a trade that occurs in the year 2025 with fictional prospects, you need to look at their potential and what that value equates to top 100 wise.

To dismiss it because irl they are ranked differently is stupid. I.e. Lordes Gurriel Jr is an 86 ovr and 88 pot player. He would command more of a return than he would in real life based on his ratings

The point of this thread for as long as I can remember (since 2017 at least) has been about equating players to real life value and dismissing ratings/ actually using good rosters. This is done through surplus value of players and equating prospects to their proper values regardless of their overall or potential for a realistic experience. If you don't subscribe to that, that's your opinion, but when you run into people from previous trade threads this is the response you'll see

[Friar Fanatic]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

The point of this thread for as long as I can remember (since 2017 at least) has been about equating players to real life value and dismissing ratings/ actually using good rosters. This is done through surplus value of players and equating prospects to their proper values regardless of their overall or potential for a realistic experience. If you don't subscribe to that, that's your opinion, but when you run into people from previous trade threads this is the response you'll see

Please explain to me how you can equate real life value to players if the year is 2025? What about 2023? You cant.

How about equating players using Bacon's fictional roster? You cant use real life clearly.

So youre saying that if I do a quick manage franchise and I am in the year 2025, that I cant use this thread? I cant ask for an opinion regarding a 36 year old and declining Jacob DeGrom?

You do realize there are trades that happen after 2021 and 2022 right?

[kinsmen7]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

I think the most important thing to look at when you're making moves is "Does this trade make any sense for the other team?"

From a FV/SV perspective, Gallo is worth $13.6 mil. Eierman and Allen add up to $2.0. An argument could be made from either side here on Heard's value. I agree that if you're going by Oakland's average draft position, he's likely someone who got picked late in the first round. Using last years draft rankings, a comparable could be Nick Bitsko, 18 YO picked 24th OA by the Rays.

Bitsko's value is $10.3 mil. So, you've got around $12.3 mil in SV. If you look at the fact that Gallo is being traded in his own division, you should probably go on the high end of his value ($16.1).

End of the day, everyone is free to make their own trades, but IMO, you're probably light, and I'm not sure you're meeting the Rangers needs. They've got Huff as their catcher of the future. I'd say swap Allen out for someone like Daulton Jefferies and you're a lot closer in terms of what it would take.

IMO, Eierman steps in within a year or two and becomes a utility player in the short term, Jefferies is likely close enough to use in the near term as well, and Heard jumps in behind Winn and Crouse to form their future rotation.

[Mackrel829]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

I think the most important thing to look at when you're making moves is "Does this trade make any sense for the other team?"

From a FV/SV perspective, Gallo is worth $13.6 mil. Eierman and Allen add up to $2.0. An argument could be made from either side here on Heard's value. I agree that if you're going by Oakland's average draft position, he's likely someone who got picked late in the first round. Using last years draft rankings, a comparable could be Nick Bitsko, 18 YO picked 24th OA by the Rays.

Bitsko's value is $10.3 mil. So, you've got around $12.3 mil in SV. If you look at the fact that Gallo is being traded in his own division, you should probably go on the high end of his value ($16.1).

End of the day, everyone is free to make their own trades, but IMO, you're probably light, and I'm not sure you're meeting the Rangers needs. They've got Huff as their catcher of the future. I'd say swap Allen out for someone like Daulton Jefferies and you're a lot closer in terms of what it would take.

IMO, Eierman steps in within a year or two and becomes a utility player in the short term, Jefferies is likely close enough to use in the near term as well, and Heard jumps in behind Winn and Crouse to form their future rotation.

This is incredibly useful, thank you!

[dpower15]

Re: MLB The Show Trade Discussion Thread

I think the most important thing to look at when you're making moves is "Does this trade make any sense for the other team?"

From a FV/SV perspective, Gallo is worth $13.6 mil. Eierman and Allen add up to $2.0. An argument could be made from either side here on Heard's value. I agree that if you're going by Oakland's average draft position, he's likely someone who got picked late in the first round. Using last years draft rankings, a comparable could be Nick Bitsko, 18 YO picked 24th OA by the Rays.

Bitsko's value is $10.3 mil. So, you've got around $12.3 mil in SV. If you look at the fact that Gallo is being traded in his own division, you should probably go on the high end of his value ($16.1).

End of the day, everyone is free to make their own trades, but IMO, you're probably light, and I'm not sure you're meeting the Rangers needs. They've got Huff as their catcher of the future. I'd say swap Allen out for someone like Daulton Jefferies and you're a lot closer in terms of what it would take.

IMO, Eierman steps in within a year or two and becomes a utility player in the short term, Jefferies is likely close enough to use in the near term as well, and Heard jumps in behind Winn and Crouse to form their future rotation.

How do you come up with these values? Do you have an excel workbook you plug ratings and contracts into? Lol


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