OBPS

[ktd1976]

Re: OBPS

The weight of the formula IS the bases though. Every single weighted formula ever has some fixed number that is weighted against something else.

The weighted numbers can’t change.

If you have class that has a four tests that are worth 40% and the the rest of the work is worth 60% the weight stays the same when you do the math. That is another form of a weighted formula.

Another example is GPA. If you get a class that has 2 credits and have a 3.0 but you have a class where you get 1 credit hour but got a 4.0 your average isn’t 7/2 cause each of those credit hours worked the gpa.

Instead the gpa is 3x2 + 2x1 / 3 (total credits) that is how a weighted gpa works which is exactly how a total bases formula works as well.

If you have 3 doubles and 2 singles over 5 at bats the formula would look just the same almost. It would be 3x2 + 2x1 / 5.

The weighted portion of these formulas is always a predetermined fixed number. The weighted number doesn’t go up and down otherwise you couldn’t do the math properly.

I have never said the weight of the formula was the bases. I have said time and time again it is the hits that must be weighted using the formula to get total bases.

But what do I know spent 10 years get degrees in math heavy fields as well as every single website that ever defines what a slugging percentage is saying it is a weighted average or something to that merit, including MLB themselves which says all hits are not equal in this formula… we are just all collectively wrong.

Life is to short to worry about that. I think everyone who wanted to learn how to use slugging understands it more and whatever minutiae details of how the formula is calculated is literally of no consequence cause it won’t change how it is used.

You literally DID say the weight of the formula IS the bases (see above)

[ktd1976]

Re: OBPS

I have never said the weight of the formula was the bases. I have said time and time again it is the hits that must be weighted using the formula to get total bases.

But what do I know spent 10 years get degrees in math heavy fields as well as every single website that ever defines what a slugging percentage is saying it is a weighted average or something to that merit, including MLB themselves which says all hits are not equal in this formula… we are just all collectively wrong.

Life is to short to worry about that. I think everyone who wanted to learn how to use slugging understands it more and whatever minutiae details of how the formula is calculated is literally of no consequence cause it won’t change how it is used.

Furthermore, the hits aren't "weighted" in the formula to get the total bases.

They are simply multiplied by the number of bases one of that type of hit is equal to. Thus giving the total number of bases for the amount of that type of hit. It's literally just a simple formula that is done for each type of hit, then the totals are added together to get the total number of bases earned from all hits.

[ExarKub00720]

Re: OBPS

A double is 2 total bases. How many total bases is 10 doubles?

Is that a weighted equation? NO, of course not. It is just a simple equation used to find the total bases that 10 doubles is.

But somehow asking "how many total bases is 10 singles, 10 doubles, 10 triples, and 10 Home Runs" is a "weighted formula?

It's not. It's the sum of the totals of 4 separate simple formulas.

If you are just looking at each sum as a separate problem then yes it isn’t even a formula at the point. If we break every single thing down by it’s tiniest of details then nothing of this is a formula at all.

If that’s how you look at then it’s just weird. As stated the full formula, which is what mlb it self says, is (1B + 2Bx2 + 3Bx3 + HRx4)/AB. That is the formula to solve for slugging. If we keep breaking it down to all it’s small parts and refuse to look at it as a whole then yes it isn’t a formula at that point but at some point you are going to have to use the sums of all it’s part to calculate the formula.

If you want to just say well to find double total bases is 2x doubles and triples is 3x total triples and you don’t write out the formula then yeah these are by themselves just math problems.

When you use them as a formula though and plug and play to solve the equation you get something more.

The type of equation that is the slugging equation is an example of a weighted formula.

Here is example what feels like 3,000 of how this is a weighted formula.

https://lhsblogs.typepad.com/files/u...averages-1.pdf

If you look over all the examples which includes an actual math quiz it all points to it being a weighted equation.

[ExarKub00720]

Re: OBPS

You literally DID say the weight of the formula IS the bases (see above)

That isn’t the context of what I was saying though. You said that because it was a fixed number it can’t be weighted. I am saying that the use of how many bases a hit is worth is the weight and not the idea of total bases over all.

[ktd1976]

Re: OBPS

If you are just looking at each sum as a separate problem then yes it isn’t even a formula at the point. If we break every single thing down by it’s tiniest of details then nothing of this is a formula at all.

If that’s how you look at then it’s just weird. As stated the full formula, which is what mlb it self says, is (1B + 2Bx2 + 3Bx3 + HRx4)/AB. That is the formula to solve for slugging. If we keep breaking it down to all it’s small parts and refuse to look at it as a whole then yes it isn’t a formula at that point but at some point you are going to have to use the sums of all it’s part to calculate the formula.

If you want to just say well to find double total bases is 2x doubles and triples is 3x total triples and you don’t write out the formula then yeah these are by themselves just math problems.

When you use them as a formula though and plug and play to solve the equation you get something more.

The type of equation that is the slugging equation is an example of a weighted formula.

Here is example what feels like 3,000 of how this is a weighted formula.

https://lhsblogs.typepad.com/files/u...averages-1.pdf

If you look over all the examples which includes an actual math quiz it all points to it being a weighted equation.

It looks like a weighted formula. But it IS NOT.

The top part of that formula, you are simply solving for an unknown number that isn't tracked, by taking the total number of hits of a certain type, and multiplying them by the number of bases in that type of hit. Doing this for each type of hit, and then adding up the totals. You are not "weighing" each hit by a number, you are simply figuring out the total number of bases.

MLB uses that formula, because they do not track the "total bases resulting from hits" which is the number needed to calculate slugging percentage.

Slugging Percentage is total bases from all hits divided by at bats it took to get those bases.

That "total number of bases from all hits" is unknown,(because it isn't tracked) so we have to first figure out what that number is, using simple formulas of multiplying the number of each type of hit by the number of bases one of that type of hit earns, doing that for each type of hit, then adding the totals. While it looks like a "weighted formula" it really is not. It is actually the sum of 4 separate simple formulas.

If total bases from hits were a stat that was kept, then the formula calculating slugging percentage would be just a simple formula to determine an average.

Just because we have to figure out what the "total bases from hits" number is, using the sums of 4 separate simple (not weighted) formulas, doesn't make the overall equation a "weighted" one.

[ktd1976]

Re: OBPS

That isn’t the context of what I was saying though. You said that because it was a fixed number it can’t be weighted. I am saying that the use of how many bases a hit is worth is the weight and not the idea of total bases over all.

And that is where you are wrong.

1 double is a fixed number of bases. (2)

10 doubles is a fixed number of bases. (20)

10 doubles + 10 Triples + 10 Home Runs is also a fixed number of bases. (90)

Just because that number is unknown until we solve for it (by using a simple equation for each hit) doesn't mean that number isn't a fixed number.

[ExarKub00720]

Re: OBPS

It looks like a weighted formula. But it IS NOT.

The top part of that formula, you are simply solving for an unknown number that isn't tracked, by taking the total number of hits of a certain type, and multiplying them by the number of bases in that type of hit. Doing this for each type of hit, and then adding up the totals. You are not "weighing" each hit by a number, you are simply figuring out the total number of bases.

MLB uses that formula, because they do not track the "total bases resulting from hits" which is the number needed to calculate slugging percentage.

Slugging Percentage is total bases from all hits divided by at bats it took to get those bases.

That "total number of bases from all hits" is unknown,(because it isn't tracked) so we have to first figure out what that number is, using simple formulas of multiplying the number of each type of hit by the number of bases one of that type of hit earns, doing that for each type of hit, then adding the totals. While it looks like a "weighted formula" it really is not. It is actually the sum of 4 separate simple formulas.

If total bases from hits were a stat that was kept, then the formula calculating slugging percentage would be just a simple formula to determine an average.

Just because we have to figure out what the "total bases from hits" number is, using the sums of 4 separate simple (not weighted) formulas, doesn't make the overall equation a "weighted" one.

It doesn’t matter if it’s tracked or not. Even if there was some backend server that tracked bases it was still going to have to use that formula to find it. It’s impossible to find out total bases without using that formula.

It doesn’t matter how that formula is used whether it’s in the back end or not. If you had some stat that listed total bases the computer they calculated it still had to use that formula. The formula is inescapable all known. It tracks you in your sleep and knows everything about your bases. It is there in the shadows watching waiting and lurking. The formula knows your deepest darkest secret and how much kfc sauce you like with your chicken. It is all consuming.

[ktd1976]

Re: OBPS

It doesn’t matter if it’s tracked or not. Even if there was some backend server that tracked bases it was still going to have to use that formula to find it. It’s impossible to find out total bases without using that formula.

It doesn’t matter how that formula is used whether it’s in the back end or not. If you had some stat that listed total bases the computer they calculated it still had to use that formula. The formula is inescapable all known. It tracks you in your sleep and knows everything about your bases. It is there in the shadows watching waiting and lurking. The formula knows your deepest darkest secret and how much kfc sauce you like with your chicken. It is all consuming.

If it was tracked, we would know what the number is, without needing the formula to calculate it.

But, the number would still be the same, unweighted number, whether needing the formula to calculate it, or just knowing what it is.

The total number of bases earned from hits is what it is. It isn't the result of weighing some hits more than others. It is literally the total number of bases a player gets. It is not a result of weighing some hits more than others. It is simply knowing how many bases that type of hit is, and multiplying that number by the total of that type of hit, doing that for each type of hit, then adding the totals together.

[ExarKub00720]

Re: OBPS

If it was tracked, we would know what the number is, without needing the formula to calculate it.

But, the number would still be the same, unweighted number, whether needing the formula to calculate it, or just knowing what it is.

The total number of bases earned from hits is what it is. It isn't the result of weighing some hits more than others. It is literally the total number of bases a player gets. It is not a result of weighing some hits more than others. It is simply knowing how many bases that type of hit is, and multiplying that number by the total of that type of hit, doing that for each type of hit, then adding the totals together.

Okay, let's play a game of who has more sources at their back to justify the fact that this formula is in fact a type of weighted average formula... and not just what they feel is correct but in fact is in no way shape or form correct.

MLB.com

"Slugging percentage differs from batting average in that all hits are not valued equally. While batting average is calculated by dividing the total number of hits by the total number of at-bats, the formula for slugging percentage is: (1B + 2Bx2 + 3Bx3 + HRx4)/AB."

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/standard-stats/slugging-percentage

You can see here, from MLB themselves they stated that the slugging percentage differs as the HITS are not valued equally. They themselves admit they certain hits are worth more.

Wikipedia.org

"Unlike batting average, slugging percentage gives more weight to extra-base hits such as doubles and home runs, relative to singles. Plate appearances resulting in walks are specifically excluded from this calculation, as an appearance that ends in a walk is not counted as an at bat."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slugging_percentage

Again, statements that show that in this formula hits have more weight depending on the type of hit. Again this is just for the formula to be calculated a base is a base, all this formula does is find the total bases... but it is mathematically speaking a weighted average formula to do so.

baseball.fandom.com

"The term slugging percentage is a misnomer, for it is actually a weighted average, not a percentage."

https://baseball.fandom.com/wiki/Slugging_percentage

Another example of baseball references referring to it as a weighted average.

ASDM

https://lhsblogs.typepad.com/files/u...averages-1.pdf

This is a pdf from a math quiz going over the real-world applications of types of weighted averages in the real world using slugging percentage as their example.

indeed.com

"Example:
Sum of variables (weight) / sum of all weights = weighted average"

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice...ighted-average

This breaks down how weighted averages are calculated, which is the exact formula of a slugging formula.

Total Bases (1B + 2Bx2 + 3B x 3 + HR x 4) / Total At Bats.

These formulas are the EXACT same. You can keep claiming otherwise but you have provided ZERO evidence to contradict me expect just your own feelings of how the formula works, which has so far had no evidence backed by anything else.

Just cause the formula used to learn the slugging percentage is in fact a weighted average formula that gives you a ratio of how many bases per at-bat a player should get, doesn't though mean it's treating each base differently. It's just how the math is done. You can't just claim something that is a mathematical truth false without providing any real evidence.

[ktd1976]

Re: OBPS

Okay, let's play a game of who has more sources at their back to justify the fact that this formula is in fact a type of weighted average formula... and not just what they feel is correct but in fact is in no way shape or form correct.

MLB.com

"Slugging percentage differs from batting average in that all hits are not valued equally. While batting average is calculated by dividing the total number of hits by the total number of at-bats, the formula for slugging percentage is: (1B + 2Bx2 + 3Bx3 + HRx4)/AB."

https://www.mlb.com/glossary/standard-stats/slugging-percentage

You can see here, from MLB themselves they stated that the slugging percentage differs as the HITS are not valued equally. They themselves admit they certain hits are worth more.

Wikipedia.org

"Unlike batting average, slugging percentage gives more weight to extra-base hits such as doubles and home runs, relative to singles. Plate appearances resulting in walks are specifically excluded from this calculation, as an appearance that ends in a walk is not counted as an at bat."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slugging_percentage

Again, statements that show that in this formula hits have more weight depending on the type of hit. Again this is just for the formula to be calculated a base is a base, all this formula does is find the total bases... but it is mathematically speaking a weighted average formula to do so.

baseball.fandom.com

"The term slugging percentage is a misnomer, for it is actually a weighted average, not a percentage."

https://baseball.fandom.com/wiki/Slugging_percentage

Another example of baseball references referring to it as a weighted average.

ASDM

https://lhsblogs.typepad.com/files/u...averages-1.pdf

This is a pdf from a math quiz going over the real-world applications of types of weighted averages in the real world using slugging percentage as their example.

indeed.com

"Example:
Sum of variables (weight) / sum of all weights = weighted average"

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice...ighted-average

This breaks down how weighted averages are calculated, which is the exact formula of a slugging formula.

Total Bases (1B + 2Bx2 + 3B x 3 + HR x 4) / Total At Bats.

These formulas are the EXACT same. You can keep claiming otherwise but you have provided ZERO evidence to contradict me expect just your own feelings of how the formula works, which has so far had no evidence backed by anything else.

Just cause the formula used to learn the slugging percentage is in fact a weighted average formula that gives you a ratio of how many bases per at-bat a player should get, doesn't though mean it's treating each base differently. It's just how the math is done. You can't just claim something that is a mathematical truth false without providing any real evidence.

Doesn't matter how many sources you have. It is NOT a weighted avreage.

If they were counting "hits" and then dividing those hits by a number, then it would be a weighted average.

But, that is NOT what is happening.

To get slugging percentage, the total bases is divided by at bats.

The formula used by MLB to get the "total bases" number is NOT a weighted formula. It simply multiplies the number of 2 base hits by 2 go get the total bases, the number of 3 base hits by 3 to get the total bases, and the number of 4 base hits by 4 to get the total bases, then adds them together along with the number of 1 base hits.

I get what you are saying, but, the number of hits/type of hits doesn't matter. They are not being counted. Only the bases produced by the hits matter.

Yes, an equation is needed to find the total number of bases that player amassed, but that equation is nit weighted. It is basically finding the total bases gained from each type of hit, then adding them together to get an overall total of bases by hits the player earned.

Where the fault is, is we aren't measuring hits. Only measuring bases gained by getting hits. The equation does use hits to calculate that number.

If you were assigning points to each type of hit, then dividing those points, THAT would be a weighted average. But that is not what is being done, though it appears to be.

What is being done is a simple calculation of how many total bases a player earned with hits, then dividing that by the total at bats it took to get those bases. That number of "total bases" he earned is not a weighted number. Yes, because it is unknown, (because that stat isn't kept) we have to use an equation to figure that number out.

Even simpler yet.

Player A got 4 singles in 6 at bats. 4 total bases.
Player B got a home run in 6 at bats. 4 total bases.

Both have the same slugging percentage.

The total bases they earned are the same. It is NOT a weighted total.

[Jr.]

Re: OBPS

Y'all are still going on about this??

Sent from my SM-G970U using Operation Sports mobile app

[ktd1976]

Re: OBPS

https://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Slugging-Percentage?amp=1

Great site that explains it much better than I have.

Shows how it is not a weighted average, because the hits are not being weighted.

They are just being used to calculate the number of total bases, the number needed to calculate slugging percentage.

The only way slugging percentage would be a weighted average is if some bases were given different "weight" than others.

[ExarKub00720]

Re: OBPS

Doesn't matter how many sources you have. It is NOT a weighted avreage.

If they were counting "hits" and then dividing those hits by a number, then it would be a weighted average.

But, that is NOT what is happening.

To get slugging percentage, the total bases is divided by at bats.

The formula used by MLB to get the "total bases" number is NOT a weighted formula. It simply multiplies the number of 2 base hits by 2 go get the total bases, the number of 3 base hits by 3 to get the total bases, and the number of 4 base hits by 4 to get the total bases, then adds them together along with the number of 1 base hits.

I get what you are saying, but, the number of hits/type of hits doesn't matter. They are not being counted. Only the bases produced by the hits matter.

Yes, an equation is needed to find the total number of bases that player amassed, but that equation is nit weighted. It is basically finding the total bases gained from each type of hit, then adding them together to get an overall total of bases by hits the player earned.

Where the fault is, is we aren't measuring hits. Only measuring bases gained by getting hits. The equation does use hits to calculate that number.

If you were assigning points to each type of hit, then dividing those points, THAT would be a weighted average. But that is not what is being done, though it appears to be.

What is being done is a simple calculation of how many total bases a player earned with hits, then dividing that by the total at bats it took to get those bases. That number of "total bases" he earned is not a weighted number. Yes, because it is unknown, (because that stat isn't kept) we have to use an equation to figure that number out.

Even simpler yet.

Player A got 4 singles in 6 at bats. 4 total bases.
Player B got a home run in 6 at bats. 4 total bases.

Both have the same slugging percentage.

The total bases they earned are the same. It is NOT a weighted total.

It matters how many sources I cite. That's how debates work I show my evidence and back it up you show yours. You haven't shown anything but what you feel. Feelings don't matter in math, it's just a formula.

"If they were counting "hits" and then dividing those hits by a number, then it would be a weighted average.

But, that is NOT what is happening.

To get slugging percentage, the total bases is divided by at bats. "

You literally have to run a formula to find out how much those hits are worth in comparison to how many bases they created. It still is just finding out how many bases were created, but you must use that formula which weights each hit differently compared to how many bases were created.

And guess what, if MLB gave you that number, they had to have had some computer program ALSO run that formula. The only way to find that answer is to know the formula.

Nothing I have stated claims that the bases are treated differently or anything of the sort. This is MATH, it's how formulas work. The formula is a formula for a weighted average to find the ratio of bases per at-bat. That is literally what the formula is solving for.

Calling it weighted MEANS nothing, nada, zip... it could be called a Zeus Average for all I care, the name is just what is used to call this type of formula. You seem to sink into the term weighted again as having any sort of meaning but it is just the term of that formula's name.

It doesn't really matter cause how you use the answer to the formula is all that matters. You are using the formula correctly and I think everyone understands more what it means so we move on.

[ExarKub00720]

Re: OBPS

https://www.wikihow.com/Calculate-Sl...rcentage?amp=1

Great site that explains it much better than I have.

Shows how it is not a weighted average, because the hits are not being weighted.

They are just being used to calculate the number of total bases, the number needed to calculate slugging percentage.

The only way slugging percentage would be a weighted average is if some bases were given different "weight" than others.

"Slugging Percentage (SLG) = Total Bases ÷ At Bats
Total Bases = Singles + (2 x Doubles) + (3 x Triples) + (4 x Home Runs)
Total Bases (alternate method) = Hits + Doubles + (2 x Triples) + (3 x Home Runs)[1]"

It literally tells you it's weighted though. The weighted portion of the formula is HOW you learn what total bases are. In that formula, it shows the doubles triples and home runs have a higher base weight cause? They created more bases. That is how the formula is being used, it makes those hits worth more. Your own source shows how you found total bases is that each hit was weighted more depending on how many bases they made.

Yes slugging is found with total bases/at bats but to find those total bases you HAVE to learn it by doing a formula that weights the hits equal to how many bases each hit created.

[ExarKub00720]

Re: OBPS

Y'all are still going on about this??

Sent from my SM-G970U using Operation Sports mobile app

Honestly, I am not even sure why I am at this point, it almost feels like a game at this point... I should just go and play the game for once.