Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

[DarthRambo]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

Reading through the contract issues of players taking low amounts of money. Now I've never gotten into an off-season other than a few times with this game but...does it really matter how much they are making? As long as there aren't a bunch of high overall players sitting in FA I don't understand why it matters what they're willing to sign for. This isn't real money so it's whatever to me. However if you're saying the FA pool is full of really good players that is more of a problem imo.

Does them taking low amounts of money effect the franchise in later years somehow?

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[Funkycorm]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

Reading through the contract issues of players taking low amounts of money. Now I've never gotten into an off-season other than a few times with this game but...does it really matter how much they are making? As long as there aren't a bunch of high overall players sitting in FA I don't understand why it matters what they're willing to sign for. This isn't real money so it's whatever to me. However if you're saying the FA pool is full of really good players that is more of a problem imo.

Does them taking low amounts of money effect the franchise in later years somehow?

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With free agency, players 80 and above overall will end up signed but players 79 and under will sit there. The 75-79 overall players sit there and teams will start career minor leaguers who are 68 overall instead and those players sit in free agency all year and regress. This has always been a problem. It is just a magic number overall this year that gets signed. Improved but not much better.

As far as the contracts, it has a big impact as players are asking for less. As the Rays, I can sign Judge and Soto and pay them a combined 30 million a year instead of 30 million each. I now have 30 million I shouldn't have as a small market team and can go out and sign 2 pitchers for 20 million each. Payroll is at 70 million with these 4 players instead of the near 100 it should be. If I now play the service time game with my minor leaguers. In 5 years I can have a team of all 85+ overall from top of rotation and bottom of my lineup for 100 million. And be able to sustain it for multiple years.

Now I realize that most people play 1 season maybe 2 total and are not like me where I run 10 year test sims and then run a franchise where I sim for 10 years then play. My point is that the trade and contract logic has a big impact long term and it is worse than it has been before.



I do not think 21 is a bad game. I think there are things that are good about it. But the OP wanted to know if it was worth it for the franchise mode. It is not. Plus thrown in the lack of classic rosters and 20 looks better for franchise replayability.

[DarthRambo]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

With free agency, players 80 and above overall will end up signed but players 79 and under will sit there. The 75-79 overall players sit there and teams will start career minor leaguers who are 68 overall instead and those players sit in free agency all year and regress. This has always been a problem. It is just a magic number overall this year that gets signed. Improved but not much better.

As far as the contracts, it has a big impact as players are asking for less. As the Rays, I can sign Judge and Soto and pay them a combined 30 million a year instead of 30 million each. I now have 30 million I shouldn't have as a small market team and can go out and sign 2 pitchers for 20 million each. Payroll is at 70 million with these 4 players instead of the near 100 it should be. If I now play the service time game with my minor leaguers. In 5 years I can have a team of all 85+ overall from top of rotation and bottom of my lineup for 100 million. And be able to sustain it for multiple years.

Now I realize that most people play 1 season maybe 2 total and are not like me where I run 10 year test sims and then run a franchise where I sim for 10 years then play. My point is that the trade and contract logic has a big impact long term and it is worse than it has been before.



I do not think 21 is a bad game. I think there are things that are good about it. But the OP wanted to know if it was worth it for the franchise mode. It is not. Plus thrown in the lack of classic rosters and 20 looks better for franchise replayability.

Gotcha, yeah that sucks about the good players sitting there then. Guess I'll have to roll a dice and decide what team signs some of those guys then and sign them to teams manually when that time comes.

And I get what you mean now. But at the same time you know the Rays would never spend big money anyway. I would think you could just kind of curve the budgets in a way. The top money given is low, that's okay. You have to force yourself to know that's going to be the top money to give I suppose. It definitely sucks nonetheless. But no sports game will ever get this stuff right. And in baseball the contracts are extremely weird and different from any other sport I imagine it makes it even more difficult.

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[Funkycorm]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

Gotcha, yeah that sucks about the good players sitting there then. Guess I'll have to roll a dice and decide what team signs some of those guys then and sign them to teams manually when that time comes.

And I get what you mean now. But at the same time you know the Rays would never spend big money anyway. I would think you could just kind of curve the budgets in a way. The top money given is low, that's okay. You have to force yourself to know that's going to be the top money to give I suppose. It definitely sucks nonetheless. But no sports game will ever get this stuff right. And in baseball the contracts are extremely weird and different from any other sport I imagine it makes it even more difficult.

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So yes we know no sports game gets contracts perfect. They never have and never will. Real life is too hard to replicate there.

My issue is two fold here. One, I have never had to use 30 team control to get players to sign for realistic amounts. I have never had to use 30 team control to keep trades from being insanely ridiculous. I did not want to start doing that for 21. Partly why I moved on from it.

Second, I am ok with contracts not being realistic. Don't get me wrong. My issue is that SDS touted that this stuff was improved but... It is worse than it was before. I can handle that it is never going to match real life. Heck, I sim 10 years into the future just to ensure it is not like real life. But the contract values being off mess up a lot for me.

As far as the 79 magic threshold, I will say this is an improvement over 20. Used to have players that were 31 years old 85 overall untouched in free agency while 68D potential minor leaguers were promoted.


The roster logic issues are slightly better on 21 but the contract issues with 21 make that point moot and give 20 the edge. I am ok with higher overall players asking for less money on small contracts toward the end of free agency but when a guy like Juan Soto is ecstatic with am offer for $18m per year on day 3 of free agency from the CPU and myself, as I tested them all when this happened to see what they were happy with it creates bigger issues. Now you have more teams with inflated lineups and rotations and more high overall players because they are now magically cheaper.

So now long term, it inflated ratings on teams which changes gameplay.

[Holy Toledo]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

IMO the answer to this is based on your tolerance for bugs and flaws in Franchise Mode in 21.

Some of the larger issues are prospects ages being incorrect in most cases, teams such as LAA, CHW, LAD and SF have almost all their home games as 1:05 starts, the trade logic is off (TOR seems to always trade Vlad or Bo for some old vet), check swings are broken, and year-to-year saves have been removed.

Some of the positives are you can skip Heidi, the budget system is simplified, you can create your own stadium (but you can only play day games in it), and gameplay is as good as it's ever been.

For some people, the issues are game breakers and for others, it doesn't matter at all. It simply comes down to what you are looking to get out of the game.

[Mackrel829]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

So in real MLB, the league minimum is around 500k. Typically after year 1 they will be happy with $1-3M per year. Still a very friendly team contract.

Instead, in 21 only now, you can pay them with 1.000-2.000 service time about 200k and they are taking it. In any previous games their bar would be less than half full and red and the offer would be declined. Not in 21 though.

This problem compounds when arbitration hits and they ask for lower numbers then they should take. The contracts are just too low. It is a problem from the beginning.

I don't want arbitration and renewal eligible players to have crazy demands but it should be semi realistic and be around 1-3m a year. It is a bit better for pitchers. Position players are asking for 1.5M in arbitration when they are 90 overall and would previously take anywhere from 4-7m or so.

The contract negotiations have never been this off base. Especially when they tout that this was improved. It was not.

What rights do players have to negotiate those deals? If a team offers a renewable eligible player a $200k contract, and they want more, what happens? Can they hit the open market?

[DarthRambo]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

What rights do players have to negotiate those deals? If a team offers a renewable eligible player a $200k contract, and they want more, what happens? Can they hit the open market?

Good question. I don't think in baseball they can. I could be wrong but they're under full team control for at least three years,, so they get what they get and don't throw a fit kinda deal there. They can not even be a full fledged FA until 6 years of service time in the MLB.

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[Funkycorm]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

What rights do players have to negotiate those deals? If a team offers a renewable eligible player a $200k contract, and they want more, what happens? Can they hit the open market?

Usually they can't. But if the team releases them they can become free agents early.

But the league minimum is 500k. So a player making 200k as an MLB player with service time is making less than they should.

There is some negotiation but the team has almost all of the cards.

[Mackrel829]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

Usually they can't. But if the team releases them they can become free agents early.

But the league minimum is 500k. So a player making 200k as an MLB player with service time is making less than they should.

There is some negotiation but the team has almost all of the cards.

Got it.

On the previous page, you said that they would be happy with $1-3m. Why would a team pay them any more than the $500k minimum if they are under full control have no leverage to negotiate? The player says they will sit out if they don't get more?

A lot of my renewable eligible players seem to ask for like 600k if they've been in the MLB already. From my experience, I think it has only been the minor league guys who ask for 100-200k.

[Funkycorm]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

Got it.

On the previous page, you said that they would be happy with $1-3m. Why would a team pay them any more than the $500k minimum if they are under full control have no leverage to negotiate? The player says they will sit out if they don't get more?

A lot of my renewable eligible players seem to ask for like 600k if they've been in the MLB already. From my experience, I think it has only been the minor league guys who ask for 100-200k.

Players with 1.000 to around 2.000 will ask for 200k per year. It is not always but it does happen enough. And only in 21. In 20, they would ask for more realistic amounts.

More money in real life keeps players happy. Take care of them and value them and they may sign long term for you. Most teams will pay their players incrementally more each year. This is part of what the morale system was and is trying to replicate.

Look at Tatis. Still had multiple years of team control left and the Padres paid him instead to make him happy and keep him.

In real life, any player promoted will have their pay raised to the minimum as well. This does not happen in any Show game.

[countryboy]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

EDIT: Nevermind

[guinness22]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

Positives:
- on field gameplay is superb using classic pitching/directional hitting (can't speak for other modes but I am sure they are great as well)
- new equipment, and thus also new sponsorships
- 93 players on the roster, a slight increase of 3 from past games
- users have reported the CPU will sign FA's in season (I cannot verify, as I've not gotten far enough myself)
- create a stadium

Negatives:
- RTTS changes, if that's a mode you play
- no Sounds of the Show, with the exception of PS4
- adjusting sliders results in a 50% cut (I believe) in experience and stubs from playing franchise games
- Red Sox, Angels, Dodgers and I think Giants (?) schedules in franchise are almost exclusively day games in error
- still bugs present, plus it appears they introduced a new one with the latest Patch #11 where a mound visit results in you having to pull your pitcher if you view the bullpen. I am sure they will fix, so likely temporary
- can't use created stadiums at night
- most prospect ages are incorrect in rosters, by a year or two (they are younger in game than IRL)
- menus are terrible (this is obviously my personal preference)


I am having a great deal of trouble personally getting into '21 franchise and DD. I played over 1100 hours of '20, and not even 30 hours of '21 so I won't recommend whether someone should buy or not. The above may or may not impact anything you do in game, so it's certainly personal preference. I've been playing on XBOX Series X via Game Pass from time to time waiting for a number of issues to be fixed (the main one being the schedule fubar) before buying the PS4 version to play on my PS5 (for SotS). Not sure that I will even purchase this year given how late in the cycle it is already, and things like fishing and golf take up more of my time outside at this time of year. That said if you aren't playing one of the aforementioned schedule glitch teams I'd guess '21 would appeal to many franchise players.

My .02

Happy gaming!
g22

[Daveboski]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

21 is good. No carry over sucks but it's still worth it

[jack1535]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

Positives:
- menus are terrible (this is obviously my personal preference)

Happy gaming!
g22

I don’t own ‘21 but have seen videos and I gotta say the free agent/ resign menu is sooooo much better. Being able to actually see more than 9 players at a time and not have to see their stupid cards is so clean. Can’t really speak for rest of the menus but that change is so nice

[tessl]

Re: Franchise player mainly, should I buy 21 (PS4)?

I got mlbts21 for the ps5 but I do miss my carry over franchise. If I had a ps4 I would still be playing 20.