MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

[johnnydrum]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Can I ask another seriously possibly stupid question.

When/What/ How/ Who... decides that a Pitcher is more suited as a reliever or closer?
For instance I imagine a guy like Brewers Josh Harder imagined himself as a Ace Starter rather than a Closer.
What and where about s in the development process does a Pitcher s role be determined?
Thank you

[jcar0725]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Can I ask another seriously possibly stupid question.

When/What/ How/ Who... decides that a Pitcher is more suited as a reliever or closer?
For instance I imagine a guy like Brewers Josh Harder imagined himself as a Ace Starter rather than a Closer.
What and where about s in the development process does a Pitcher s role be determined?
Thank you

First thing that comes to mind is stamina. Some pitchers are built to succeed for a short time only, some of it is how their body/arm is structured, but it's also a mentality. Some pitchers just relish the starter role and some prefer to be a reliever/closer, and in a lot of cases, they just fall in to the role that is best suited for them. There is more to it than that. but that is the short answer.

[munsonfan]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Can I ask another seriously possibly stupid question.

When/What/ How/ Who... decides that a Pitcher is more suited as a reliever or closer?
For instance I imagine a guy like Brewers Josh Harder imagined himself as a Ace Starter rather than a Closer.
What and where about s in the development process does a Pitcher s role be determined?
Thank you

Not a stupid question at all.

There are many factors that play into whether a pitcher ends up being a starter or a reliever. No doubt stamina can play a role. Some pitchers simply aren't effective in the major leagues unless they throw every pitch with maximum effort and doing so for five, six or more innings is simply not possible for them. However, a pitcher's repertoire is likely as important.

It is somewhere between exceedingly rare and unheard of for a starting pitcher to be a consistently successful without having at least three quality pitches (e.g., fastball, curveball, change up). No matter how good a pitcher's "stuff" is, many batter's will eventually start to hit it if they see the same pitch or two over multiple at bats in single a game. Having at least three quality pitches is generally seen as a minimum for starters, while one or two can be more than enough for relievers. Many pitchers simply have trouble mastering a third pitch, but have indeed mastered one or two.

The most successful closer of all time, Mariano Rivera, essentially threw his cut fastball (cutter) all the time. (He did, in fact, throw other pitches across his career, but he primarily threw one exceptionally high-quality pitch.) Had he been a starter, it is unlikely he would have been able to get away with that. Rivera did start his career as a starter and was not a particularly effective one, although in fairness he didn't master his cutter until he was already in the bullpen. Sometimes, guys who may have been envisioned as starters but are moved to the bullpen for any number of reasons, initially have so much success coming out of the bullpen that there is little if any reason to ever try them as starters again. That was certainly true of Mariano Rivera.

In the past, relievers all tended to be "failed" starters. In recent years, some guys have been drafted and groomed to be relievers (closers) from the start. Sometimes it may be because they have two dominant pitches (one of which is almost always a top flight fastball), but have a problem controlling them. These pitchers are incredibly hard to hit if they pitch one inning at a time, but likely would be easier to hit if they pitched multiple innings. At the same time, many of these relievers walk far more hitters than would be acceptable out of starters. Even excellent starters are generally easier to hit than top level relievers. While there are a few starters who can average 98 MPH on their fastballs, most can't over multiple innings. Many, many relievers average 98 MPH on their fastballs these days, but aren't expected to pitch more than one inning most of the time and rarely go even a full two innings. If a pitcher is really, really hard to hit, the walks simply matter less, especially if the relievers come in for "clean" innings (at the start of the inning) with no one on base.

[Caulfield]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Can I ask another seriously possibly stupid question.

When/What/ How/ Who... decides that a Pitcher is more suited as a reliever or closer?
For instance I imagine a guy like Brewers Josh Harder imagined himself as a Ace Starter rather than a Closer.
What and where about s in the development process does a Pitcher s role be determined?
Thank you

just touching back on the Brewers Hader, you're absolutely correct. in the minors 75%
of his playing time cames as a starting pitcher. in the majors, nada when it comes to starting. I was looking back at Baseball Americas 2015 prospect handbook and Houston still had hopes he'd be a starter. fast-forward to the 2016 prospect handbook and Milwaukee still had hopes he'd be a starter. once it became clear his secondary pitches would never match what he could do with his fastball, his bullpen fate was decided.

BTW off-topic, apparently bullpen is short for bullpenis

[Firestorm]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

just touching back on the Brewers Hader, you're absolutely correct. in the minors 75%
of his playing time cames as a starting pitcher. in the majors, nada when it comes to starting. I was looking back at Baseball Americas 2015 prospect handbook and Houston still had hopes he'd be a starter. fast-forward to the 2016 prospect handbook and Milwaukee still had hopes he'd be a starter. once it became clear his secondary pitches would never match what he could do with his fastball, his bullpen fate was decided.

BTW off-topic, apparently bullpen is short for bullpenis

The term bullpen dates back to the American civil war. It is essentially the same thing as a concentration camp from Nazi Germany in World War II.

[johnnydrum]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

just touching back on the Brewers Hader, you're absolutely correct. in the minors 75%
of his playing time cames as a starting pitcher. in the majors, nada when it comes to starting. I was looking back at Baseball Americas 2015 prospect handbook and Houston still had hopes he'd be a starter. fast-forward to the 2016 prospect handbook and Milwaukee still had hopes he'd be a starter. once it became clear his secondary pitches would never match what he could do with his fastball, his bullpen fate was decided.

BTW off-topic, apparently bullpen is short for bullpenis

Thank you....I had wondered how the process works---so its essentially down to a limited Pitch repertoire (secondary pitches etc)

[johnnydrum]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

The term bullpen dates back to the American civil war. It is essentially the same thing as a concentration camp from Nazi Germany in World War II.

Every day is a School Day here.....

[johnnydrum]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Good afternoon.

Cant than the posters who helped me with the Questions at the start of the season, and have to say you have all helped me get a better grasp.

Another question that has popped up in my mind this last week....
The Yankees Aaron Judge has been deployed as a "lead off " in some games?
As the teams most powerful batter, why lead off---wouldnt he be more valuable in his normal 3rd/4th slot so his Home Power would be in effect with runners on base?
What would be the logic of him batting leadoff?
Thank you

[jcar0725]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Good afternoon.

Cant than the posters who helped me with the Questions at the start of the season, and have to say you have all helped me get a better grasp.

Another question that has popped up in my mind this last week....
The Yankees Aaron Judge has been deployed as a "lead off " in some games?
As the teams most powerful batter, why lead off---wouldnt he be more valuable in his normal 3rd/4th slot so his Home Power would be in effect with runners on base?
What would be the logic of him batting leadoff?
Thank you

I assume you're talking about real life and not the video game. Yeah a player like Judge would normally not bat #1 or #2 due to his power, but the Yankees have a lot of similar type hitters, they don't really have a high on base speed guy, or two, that could be consistent top of the order hitters. So I think they just put Judge up there to get him as many at bats as possible, and the guys that hit behind him are hitting well also. That's my best guess. I don't really follow that team though.

[Houston]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Here is a good read. Enjoy.

https://empiresportsmedia.com/new-york-yankees/the-yankees-have-tapped-into-a-gold-mine-with-aaron-judges-recent-position-changes/

Sent from my SM-A215U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Mackrel829]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Thank you....I had wondered how the process works---so its essentially down to a limited Pitch repertoire (secondary pitches etc)

Pretty much.

As I understand it, a pitcher is more suited to be a reliever when he has one great pitch and not much else. I'd you can throw an electric fastball, you're going to be striking guys out the first time they see it. However, if that's all you can throw, guys are going to be able to time it up and hit it before too long. Therefore, a reliever with a great fastball and come in and get outs for an inning or two but won't be able to pitch much longer than that without getting hit around.

A good starting pitcher typically has at least three pitches that they can rely on. This means that they can give a hitter a certain look one inning, then switch it up the next time he comes around in the order. If the hitter doesn't know what to expect, his job becomes immeasurably more difficult.

Josh Hader might throw a better Sinker than a lot of starting pitchers, but if that's all he can throw then he won't last long as a starter.

[Caulfield]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Pretty much.

As I understand it, a pitcher is more suited to be a reliever when he has one great pitch and not much else. I'd you can throw an electric fastball, you're going to be striking guys out the first time they see it. However, if that's all you can throw, guys are going to be able to time it up and hit it before too long. Therefore, a reliever with a great fastball and come in and get outs for an inning or two but won't be able to pitch much longer than that without getting hit around.

A good starting pitcher typically has at least three pitches that they can rely on. This means that they can give a hitter a certain look one inning, then switch it up the next time he comes around in the order. If the hitter doesn't know what to expect, his job becomes immeasurably more difficult.

Josh Hader might throw a better Sinker than a lot of starting pitchers, but if that's all he can throw then he won't last long as a starter.

yep. hitting is timing.
pitching is upsetting timing

[Detroit Tigers]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

yep. hitting is timing.

pitching is upsetting timing

“Make the strikes look like balls, and make the balls look like strikes.” - Greg Maddox

[piffbernd]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

An good lead off hitter must have good contact. If he has speed it's even better. Power is semi important. Power give u exit velocity. When u hit the gaps he will be on second base

[DonkeyJote]

Re: MLB Questions--Any MLB fans help a UK Old Timer

Good afternoon.



Cant than the posters who helped me with the Questions at the start of the season, and have to say you have all helped me get a better grasp.



Another question that has popped up in my mind this last week....

The Yankees Aaron Judge has been deployed as a "lead off " in some games?

As the teams most powerful batter, why lead off---wouldnt he be more valuable in his normal 3rd/4th slot so his Home Power would be in effect with runners on base?

What would be the logic of him batting leadoff?

Thank you

In theory, yes, he could get more RBI batting lower. His ability to get on base at a relatively high rate, including getting on 2B with a double, means him leading off gives others a chance at more RBI. Also, a hitter batting leadoff get more chances to hit than a batter hitting 3rd or 4th (36 and 53 more respectively over the average for the entire 2021 season, for example).

Tradition has the best hitter hitting 3rd or 4th, but the numbers actually say your best hitter should hit 2nd (which is where Judge has hit most of his career), and your next two best should hit 1st and 4th.

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