Pitcher energy is cosmetic

[forme95]

Pitcher energy seems cosmetic. Amir Garrett came into a tied game in the 9th with less then 50% energy. Pitched 6 innings, 5.2 of the innings with no energy. No injury, no loss of confidence, no loss of control, pitching like its no problem. Every pitch like he had full energy. I'm about to sim to the end this because this is just rediculous programming. Now I'm more curious to see how long this actually goes on.
I don't know which is the bigger joke, the fact of how long he pitched, or that the bullpen had plenty of arms to use.
KC has had a pitcher warming up since the 10th inning.

AS default, sds 4/29 live roster no adjustments. Absolutely baffles me.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

You definitely lose velocity and break. PAR gets larger too, and I believe also the hitter's PVI.

But also, confidence isn't tied to fatigue and is designed to counteract some of the effects (even says so in game). So if you're pitching really well, you can go longer with low fatigue. But being tired absolutely has an effect.

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[forme95]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

You definitely lose velocity and break. PAR gets larger too, and I believe also the hitter's PVI.

But also, confidence isn't tied to fatigue and is designed to counteract some of the effects (even says so in game). So if you're pitching really well, you can go longer with low fatigue. But being tired absolutely has an effect.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

I 100% agree programming plays off confidence not energy. My OP proves that.

And tell Amir about losing velo and break. He loss neither. Lol.

I get the "confidence will let you go longer with low fatigue" BUT 5.2 inning with ZERO energy? I mean appearantly because programming allows it, which again proves "energy is cosmetic"

[bcruise]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

Just gonna leave this here....





Honestly I have a bunch of questions about the situation in which this happened (15+ inning game, CPU only using one pitcher in extras, played game vs. manage mode/CPU vs CPU, etc.). There's a LOT of weird stuff going on here based on what you described, not the least of which is a pitcher seemingly not being affected by fatigue.

I will say one thing, though. According to that top screen, fatigue effect works on kind of a threshold basis - once you hit a certain point you see steeper dropoffs, rather than it being a steady drop in performance. Those threshold points are where you see the PCI increase in size like DonkeyJote mentioned, for example. So, at the point where a pitcher hits 0 energy, there's not going to be any further drop off. If Garrett came in at 50% I'd guess he probably hit that point by around the 3rd inning of work, so after that if he was still throwing effectively (in terms of getting outs) it wasn't going to get any worse for him regardless of how many pitches he threw - can't go less than 0% after all. Confidence is a factor (and it was probably very high in this case) but I usually find that it only delays the effects of fatigue (the "dropoff" points I mentioned above) - and it was long past having any kind of meaningful effect by the time he hit 0%.

That's all I can really say about this without having more information. If this was a played game, maybe consider lowering the hitting difficulty so that the CPU can't pitch effectively to you on zero energy?

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

I 100% agree programming plays off confidence not energy. My OP proves that.

And tell Amir about losing velo and break. He loss neither. Lol.

I get the "confidence will let you go longer with low fatigue" BUT 5.2 inning with ZERO energy? I mean appearantly because programming allows it, which again proves "energy is cosmetic"

I'd have to see proof of that. Because every time I've gotten a pitcher "out of energy" it's an instant loss in velocity.

Went into a game and used Jhoan Duran. In the Green and Yellow, every single fastball was 101-102. Once he hit red, he dropped to 99-100 with 1 fastball touching 101. When he was Out of Energy, he was down to 98-99. Also was dominant until he hit the red when all of a sudden the cpu started making really solid contact. Amir probably didn't lose additional velocity once he had already ran out of stamina, but I'm pretty confident that he lost it before then.

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[Caulfield]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

it does sound like more bullpen logic issues as much as energy problems
a double whammy
*shrug*

[forme95]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

it does sound like more bullpen logic issues as much as energy problems
a double whammy
*shrug*

I'll have to go look back at the box score, they did (off memory) go through 5 pitchers I believe, and I know the closer is 1-6 day injured. I'll screen shot it ne t day or two when I play again. But I think I have the answer. I honestly now don't think they had a replacement pitcher without going to another starter...... So that actually may answer that part of it. It just dawned on me as I was reading responses and typing this reply. Energy wouldn't matter I guess with the thought (program) of Amir is the last RP, so you'll either lose a arm or not but your pitching till the end lol.

I'd have to see proof of that. Because every time I've gotten a pitcher "out of energy" it's an instant loss in velocity.

Went into a game and used Jhoan Duran. In the Green and Yellow, every single fastball was 101-102. Once he hit red, he dropped to 99-100 with 1 fastball touching 101. When he was Out of Energy, he was down to 98-99. Also was dominant until he hit the red when all of a sudden the cpu started making really solid contact. Amir probably didn't lose additional velocity once he had already ran out of stamina, but I'm pretty confident that he lost it before then.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

All I have at this point is the boxscore. I stopped twitching games a couple years ago. Without going back and looking, I don't think Amir throws hard, so I may just not have noticed velocity change. I know he threw a lot of pitches and I'd get guys on base and then a double play would end it. End of the 16th inning 80 something pitches is when he lost it. Walked 2 and then a 2 run double given up.

I'll post the boxscore the next time I go on to play.

I'll look at your post and respond to Bcruise tomorrow on my computer. Hard to read and I hate typing on this phone.

[AUTiger1]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

You definitely lose velocity and break. PAR gets larger too, and I believe also the hitter's PVI.

But also, confidence isn't tied to fatigue and is designed to counteract some of the effects (even says so in game). So if you're pitching really well, you can go longer with low fatigue. But being tired absolutely has an effect.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

Was coming here to say just that. If your pitching well you can go longer with low or no energy but as soon as you give up a hit or two with no energy you're toast. It snowballs and is nearly impossible to finish an inning.

[Detroit Tigers]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

it does sound like more bullpen logic issues as much as energy problems

a double whammy

*shrug*

I can’t even count how many times I’ve thought the AI went to the pen at the exact time I thought they should, to where “any kind of baserunner here and he’s gone” is a 100% predictor. This happens nearly every game if you’re paying attention, and what I think happens is a lot of the time guys aren’t paying attention really at all, and sleepwalk through the game until they’re annoyed with how they can’t even get a pitcher with zero energy out of the game.

Like it’s really obvious that you simply have no control/momentum/feel for the game at that point and that’s why you can’t get the AI to put a new reliever in. When you’re on your game you can virtually dictate the entire gameflow. When you’re miles off your game, things like facing the same reliever for six innings happens.

There’s nothing wrong with how the AI uses their pen imo. Not that I’ve seen.

[forme95]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

Was coming here to say just that. If your pitching well you can go longer with low or no energy but as soon as you give up a hit or two with no energy you're toast. It snowballs and is nearly impossible to finish an inning.

He was rolling pretty good for a dead arm. He'd give up a BB here and there, a hit here and there, and then would get out of it with a double play. The 16th inning though, he finally fell. Gave up back to back walks, and then JRam hit a 2 run double, and Naylor hit a single over the SS head. After that, Amir got out of the inning and Clase closed it out.

[forme95]

Re: Pitcher energy is cosmetic

Honestly I have a bunch of questions about the situation in which this happened (15+ inning game, CPU only using one pitcher in extras, played game vs. manage mode/CPU vs CPU, etc.). There's a LOT of weird stuff going on here based on what you described, not the least of which is a pitcher seemingly not being affected by fatigue.

In a previous response I noted that after looking at the box score, I believe it was because Amir was the last available RP, and that is why he went as long as he did. Game went 16 innings total. Not my longest. I had a 23 inning game back in 19 or 20. I saved it on my Twitch. That was a long game. As I said, I will post the box score when I can. Off memory, Starter went 5.2, RP1 0.1, RP2 1.0, RP3 1.0 RP4 1.0 RP5 0.1 (I dont think he faced 3 batters either. 1 hit, 1SO) then Amir 5.2. If I recall, that was the pitching line.
It was manage mode, 30 team control.
His confidence was never high, just stayed around mid range mostly. I do play from the dugout, so i dont see location of pitches and as I said earlier, I dont think he has lighting stuff to tell if his velocity dropped or not. I was watching speeds and pitches to try to get steals when I could.

I will say one thing, though. According to that top screen, fatigue effect works on kind of a threshold basis - once you hit a certain point you see steeper dropoffs, rather than it being a steady drop in performance. Those threshold points are where you see the PCI increase in size like DonkeyJote mentioned, for example. So, at the point where a pitcher hits 0 energy, there's not going to be any further drop off. If Garrett came in at 50% I'd guess he probably hit that point by around the 3rd inning of work, so after that if he was still throwing effectively (in terms of getting outs) it wasn't going to get any worse for him regardless of how many pitches he threw - can't go less than 0% after all. Confidence is a factor (and it was probably very high in this case) but I usually find that it only delays the effects of fatigue (the "dropoff" points I mentioned above) - and it was long past having any kind of meaningful effect by the time he hit 0%.

I see what your saying with that.

That's all I can really say about this without having more information. If this was a played game, maybe consider lowering the hitting difficulty so that the CPU can't pitch effectively to you on zero energy?

Ive never delt with this in my play franchise, but I get the points you are making. In conclusion, I think it was Amir was the last pitcher available and it was you are pitching till the end or till your arm falls off. I was so consumed in the game, that I didnt realize they had gone through all those pitchers already. Every team has a 12 pitcher rotation.

[forme95]

Re: Pitcher energy

I amended my title to be more SDS and OS friendly