MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

[Funkycorm]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

The draft isn’t new at all. They literally took card unveils from DD added it for the first 3 picks and that’s it. They made it out like they created a new scouting and drafting system and they didn’t. It’s the exact same function you just have 3 scouts now instead of 4. The way the scouts scout is the exact same. The big selling point during the stream was “no more bad logic like closers and relievers being half the top 30 propsects. That wasn’t true either.

Ok, a bit of semantics. Old version versus the current version then.

There is still improvement needed. I have said it elsewhere. The draft still needs better generation of C, 1B, and 3B prospects. But this is part of how players at that position are weighted in their overall. A bigger issue that needs to be addressed as well.

But my above post is still accurate. The draft no longer generates 25 year old prospects and this stops the 30 year old rookies. There is room for improvement.

But I was responding to the post that said that no players in the draft are viable. This is absolutely not true. I even shared numbers in another thread here a while back about the same point.

But to the point of the thread, the devs will need to show me something big in terms of changes (expanded rosters and more draft rounds) to get my purchase this year.

[ChaseB]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

The line in the article about how massive sports games are and that being to their detriment is something I don’t think is talked about enough. You might play the Call of Duty single player campaign but that’s probably not why you bought the game. The opposite with the Last of Us, no matter how good the multiplayer part may have been that’s probably not the reason you bought the game. You bought it for the single player story. Now take sports games: some people (me) never touch the online aspects of the game. Others only play online. And you have to crank a new version out every year and try to keep two very different fan bases happy. And on top of that there are multiple different ways to play online and offline: rtts, franchise, m2o, negro leagues storylines, jeter storylines, plus all the dd stuff that I can’t even speak to.

Yeah it's something I want to talk more about in the near future.

[breakfastcat]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

The line in the article about how massive sports games are and that being to their detriment is something I don’t think is talked about enough. You might play the Call of Duty single player campaign but that’s probably not why you bought the game. The opposite with the Last of Us, no matter how good the multiplayer part may have been that’s probably not the reason you bought the game. You bought it for the single player story. Now take sports games: some people (me) never touch the online aspects of the game. Others only play online. And you have to crank a new version out every year and try to keep two very different fan bases happy. And on top of that there are multiple different ways to play online and offline: rtts, franchise, m2o, negro leagues storylines, jeter storylines, plus all the dd stuff that I can’t even speak to.

The one thing I'll say to that is that they are not beholden to an annual release. They only choose to do that because of a tradition that has been the norm for decades to stay current in a time before games could be updated post release. And as games get more and more complicated, less and less can be done in a single year dev cycle. I would happily take a game that releases once every 3-4 years with actual innovation and progress (and lets say a $25 roster/face scan update each season between releases). Unfortunately they already have the expectation of a yearly release, so they can get away with charging customers $70 every year for what becomes a smaller and smaller improvement with each new game. No one is forcing them to release a game every year. But the market has allowed it, and it's much more profitable to do it, and profit is more important than progress.

[djflock]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

The one thing I'll say to that is that they are not beholden to an annual release. They only choose to do that because of a tradition that has been the norm for decades to stay current in a time before games could be updated post release. And as games get more and more complicated, less and less can be done in a single year dev cycle. I would happily take a game that releases once every 3-4 years with actual innovation and progress (and lets say a $25 roster/face scan update each season between releases). Unfortunately they already have the expectation of a yearly release, so they can get away with charging customers $70 every year for what becomes a smaller and smaller improvement with each new game. No one is forcing them to release a game every year. But the market has allowed it, and it's much more profitable to do it, and profit is more important than progress.

Not sure of the sales numbers but that $70 is $100 in a lot of cases in the form of deluxe editions.

[tessl]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

The new draft did several important things. First, it stopped the 25 year old draft picks. This is by far the most important. It also produced more players that are closer to MLB ready.

I think you would be surprised that the draft picks are much more viable than you think. Try a 15 year test simulation and go through the rosters. You will be surprised. Now, yes, there is improvement needed. But this is something they have been working on for multiple iterations now. The new draft has actually helped because it stops those 23-25 year old draft picks and hence 30 year old rookies.

I know I have said the above before. And believe me, I don't blindly defend the game. Check my MLB post history. But I think you need to take a look yourself at this to see this progression and draft thing is actually not as catastrophic as you make it sound.

I have posted a video of the draft in my franchise. My post history includes a youtube video of the mlbts23 draft and it is a mess. If you are saying they fixed the issues for mlbts 24 then I'd love to see a video. Please sim to the mlb draft and then post a youtube video. I'd love to see it.

[Funkycorm]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

I have posted a video of the draft in my franchise. My post history includes a youtube video of the mlbts23 draft and it is a mess. If you are saying they fixed the issues for mlbts 24 then I'd love to see a video. Please sim to the mlb draft and then post a youtube video. I'd love to see it.

So one thing to keep in mind is that it will take a player 4-5 years to become MLB ready, especially if they enter through the draft at 18. So yes players will be rated low overall but they do become relevant. I will try to make a video if I have time.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

I have posted a video of the draft in my franchise. My post history includes a youtube video of the mlbts23 draft and it is a mess. If you are saying they fixed the issues for mlbts 24 then I'd love to see a video. Please sim to the mlb draft and then post a youtube video. I'd love to see it.

I missed the video, would you mind sharing again? How many years are you into your franchise? In my MLB 23 franchise I was like 5 or 6 years in and I finally started to get some prospects reach the MLB level that I had drafted (or traded for which other teams drafted). Outside of a rare handful of players, I find it takes the right amount of time for players to get to the MLB since your average player takes anywhere from 4-8 years after they were drafted to come up.

I also like that not every A potential pans out. Definitely issues with progression/regression at the MLB level, but I’m seeing plenty of guys reach the MLB if you wait long enough on your franchise.

Pitcher stamina on the other hand, that’s an issue for draftee progression.

[tessl]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

I missed the video, would you mind sharing again? How many years are you into your franchise? In my MLB 23 franchise I was like 5 or 6 years in and I finally started to get some prospects reach the MLB level that I had drafted (or traded for which other teams drafted). Outside of a rare handful of players, I find it takes the right amount of time for players to get to the MLB since your average player takes anywhere from 4-8 years after they were drafted to come up.

I also like that not every A potential pans out. Definitely issues with progression/regression at the MLB level, but I’m seeing plenty of guys reach the MLB if you wait long enough on your franchise.

Pitcher stamina on the other hand, that’s an issue for draftee progression.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4zgCFeEr2I

Synopsis of what I found in the video. Note the stamina on most starting pitchers. Lots of them in the 70's. That will drop while their h/9 etc may or may not improve depending on potential and performance.

Dodgers #1 stamina 73 h/9 40. He could progress in to an MLB pitcher but not a starting pitcher because while h/9 improves stamina will decline.

Baltimore #1 pick. 1B with 26 con R 38 vision. He won't make it to MLB. Scouts apparently say he will but irl the progression system won't allow him to gain that many points. As with many other teams they drafted no starting picthers.

Boston #1 Catcher. He has a good chance to develop into a line drive hitter with little power but look at his arm strength of 33. He will be a terrible catcher.

Yankees #1 LF good speed but 30 con R 36 vision. Good luck making it to MLB with the progression system. Again did not draft a SP.

Blue Jays. 4 draft picks. All RP. Need I say more?

Angels. No player with higher than C potential.

Rangers #1 93 stamina which is fantastic. 36 h/9 and C potential. He won't develop.

Notice how many #1 picks have 30's con/vision and C potential. Those guys aren't going to develop.

Phillies #1 SS C potential with 30's con/vision. He will be a great fielder with speed who can't hit. His offense won't progress because he will have poor numbers combined with C potential.

I'm not trashing the developers just stating the obvious. Scouting estimate of progression does not match actual progression. Maybe in the sim world that somehow works but not in manage mode playing 9 innings/162.

They need to rework actual progression to match the scouting progression or simply put better players in the draft. The most glaring issue is with pitcher stamina but it's also with position players.
__________________

[tessl]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

So one thing to keep in mind is that it will take a player 4-5 years to become MLB ready, especially if they enter through the draft at 18. So yes players will be rated low overall but they do become relevant. I will try to make a video if I have time.

BAL: 5
BOS: 10
NYY: 6
TB: 17
TOR: 11
CWS: 12
CLE: 26
DET: 15
KC: 10
MIN: 12
HOU: 6
LAA: 11
OAK: 12
SEA: 5
TEX: 11

169/390 (43%)

ATL: 9
MIA: 11
NYM: 13
PHI: 8
WAS: 16
CHC: 14
CIN: 10
MIL: 11
PIT: 10
STL: 6
ARI: 7
COL: 14
LAD: 10
SD: 7
SF: 9

Was it that one listing 74 overall players in 2034? 23 teams have less than half the roster with viable MLB level players.

I'm in 2026 of my mlbts23 franchise and half or more of the league has a lineup with mostly batters with contact/power in the 50's. I don't sim anything and perhaps in the sim world those players put up good numbers but none of them reach the Mendoza line when I play the games.

I'd love to see the video. Please show the stamina for starting pitchers for each team also.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4zgCFeEr2I

Synopsis of what I found in the video. Note the stamina on most starting pitchers. Lots of them in the 70's. That will drop while their h/9 etc may or may not improve depending on potential and performance.

Dodgers #1 stamina 73 h/9 40. He could progress in to an MLB pitcher but not a starting pitcher because while h/9 improves stamina will decline.

Baltimore #1 pick. 1B with 26 con R 38 vision. He won't make it to MLB. Scouts apparently say he will but irl the progression system won't allow him to gain that many points. As with many other teams they drafted no starting picthers.

Boston #1 Catcher. He has a good chance to develop into a line drive hitter with little power but look at his arm strength of 33. He will be a terrible catcher.

Yankees #1 LF good speed but 30 con R 36 vision. Good luck making it to MLB with the progression system. Again did not draft a SP.

Blue Jays. 4 draft picks. All RP. Need I say more?

Angels. No player with higher than C potential.

Rangers #1 93 stamina which is fantastic. 36 h/9 and C potential. He won't develop.

Notice how many #1 picks have 30's con/vision and C potential. Those guys aren't going to develop.

Phillies #1 SS C potential with 30's con/vision. He will be a great fielder with speed who can't hit. His offense won't progress because he will have poor numbers combined with C potential.

I'm not trashing the developers just stating the obvious. Scouting estimate of progression does not match actual progression. Maybe in the sim world that somehow works but not in manage mode playing 9 innings/162.

They need to rework actual progression to match the scouting progression or simply put better players in the draft. The most glaring issue is with pitcher stamina but it's also with position players.
__________________

But did you sim to test this out? I’ve had plenty of guys with really low contact or power (under 45) at 18 that develop to having 80+ in either category by the time they reach 24 years old. Just curious if you’ve simmed 10 years in to see how these prospect panned out.

I think that’s the part I’m confused about. If you think they will develop in a year or two, the game is supposed to simulate actual prospect progression which can take several years. They also might slowly progress for 3-4 years and then jump a lot in their 5th year.

The only stat I’ve seen an issue with is pitcher stamina as it always goes down.

[eric7064]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

I have always been one to sim 10+ seasons when the game comes out to see how development works because I feel it has been one of the weaker parts of the game.

While they did do some work in some facets of the development it is still nowhere near where it needs to be. Way too many players are drafted that you can tell instantly won't ever make it to the MLB. Even if they are A potential, they simply are way to low to really make an impact.

You will NEVER see a 20-21 year old debut in the MLB and be successful and turn into a star. There is never just huge jumps in development, it's always slow and methodical based on the potential rating they get. You will never see a 77 overall 21 year old jump to a 90 after an all star season. It simply does not happen. There is very little dynamic change in ratings.

Also certain positions for whatever reason develop better than others, and certain positions just simply aren't represented well enough in the draft.

By year 10 of a franchise nearly all 30 teams have a rotation with 80+ overall pitchers. This makes It near impossible for young players to ever crack it to the big leagues because it's oversaturated.

I also don't know why, but for many years I have noticed that the first two drafts (moreso the first) is always more loaded than any other class that comes out. Also the way development works in the show there aren't enough "different" type of players. Too many players are perfectly balanced across the board. You don't often see a guy with 50 contact and 80 power. It just seems like every player ends up being way too similar and balanced. There were improvements in the last couple years, but it is nowhere where it needs to be.

That goes without saying how awful the AI is at finding the good players and making poor decisions like drafting RP in the early rounds even though SDS literally said that wouldn't happen anymore.

Some attributes off the top of my head that I know many prospects come in way too low

H/9
K/9
Contact
Fielding

I have seen pitchers that look like they have good ratings, but they come into the MLB with a sub 50 h/9 and just get crushed. A generated pitcher getting 200ks in a season becomes SO rare deeper into a franchise.

All in all, for YEARS I have had to go into the top 100 prospect list and edit the ratings of prospects just so some would debut and be impactful. I had to come up with my own house rules.

[Funkycorm]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

BAL: 5
BOS: 10
NYY: 6
TB: 17
TOR: 11
CWS: 12
CLE: 26
DET: 15
KC: 10
MIN: 12
HOU: 6
LAA: 11
OAK: 12
SEA: 5
TEX: 11

169/390 (43%)

ATL: 9
MIA: 11
NYM: 13
PHI: 8
WAS: 16
CHC: 14
CIN: 10
MIL: 11
PIT: 10
STL: 6
ARI: 7
COL: 14
LAD: 10
SD: 7
SF: 9

Was it that one listing 74 overall players in 2034? 23 teams have less than half the roster with viable MLB level players.

I'm in 2026 of my mlbts23 franchise and half or more of the league has a lineup with mostly batters with contact/power in the 50's. I don't sim anything and perhaps in the sim world those players put up good numbers but none of them reach the Mendoza line when I play the games.

I'd love to see the video. Please show the stamina for starting pitchers for each team also.

So this was only the generated prospects. This does not include any player on the base roster 10 years in. Which I also did state on my original post in that thread. I was answering specifically about the progression of drafted prospects in game. There are a whole lot more players above 74 but it wasn't what I was counting.

Those numbers show that 40 percent of the MLB rosters on 2034 are composed of players who were drafted in the game itself and are MLB players. Just that. Not including any player on the base roster (Vlad Jr, Elly, Gunnar Henderson, and all of the rest. Many of them are 90+ and develop into superstars)

I will try to stream it then link the replay here. But I won't guarantee that.

[Funkycorm]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

I have always been one to sim 10+ seasons when the game comes out to see how development works because I feel it has been one of the weaker parts of the game.

While they did do some work in some facets of the development it is still nowhere near where it needs to be. Way too many players are drafted that you can tell instantly won't ever make it to the MLB. Even if they are A potential, they simply are way to low to really make an impact.

You will NEVER see a 20-21 year old debut in the MLB and be successful and turn into a star. There is never just huge jumps in development, it's always slow and methodical based on the potential rating they get. You will never see a 77 overall 21 year old jump to a 90 after an all star season. It simply does not happen. There is very little dynamic change in ratings.

Also certain positions for whatever reason develop better than others, and certain positions just simply aren't represented well enough in the draft.

By year 10 of a franchise nearly all 30 teams have a rotation with 80+ overall pitchers. This makes It near impossible for young players to ever crack it to the big leagues because it's oversaturated.

I also don't know why, but for many years I have noticed that the first two drafts (moreso the first) is always more loaded than any other class that comes out. Also the way development works in the show there aren't enough "different" type of players. Too many players are perfectly balanced across the board. You don't often see a guy with 50 contact and 80 power. It just seems like every player ends up being way too similar and balanced. There were improvements in the last couple years, but it is nowhere where it needs to be.

That goes without saying how awful the AI is at finding the good players and making poor decisions like drafting RP in the early rounds even though SDS literally said that wouldn't happen anymore.

Some attributes off the top of my head that I know many prospects come in way too low

H/9
K/9
Contact
Fielding

I have seen pitchers that look like they have good ratings, but they come into the MLB with a sub 50 h/9 and just get crushed. A generated pitcher getting 200ks in a season becomes SO rare deeper into a franchise.

All in all, for YEARS I have had to go into the top 100 prospect list and edit the ratings of prospects just so some would debut and be impactful. I had to come up with my own house rules.

I have been saying for multiple years that it needs to continue to improve. In fact, I said it in my posts in this thread at some point.

The original post I was responding to was that no one develops. That simply isn't true.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

I have always been one to sim 10+ seasons when the game comes out to see how development works because I feel it has been one of the weaker parts of the game.

While they did do some work in some facets of the development it is still nowhere near where it needs to be. Way too many players are drafted that you can tell instantly won't ever make it to the MLB. Even if they are A potential, they simply are way to low to really make an impact.

You will NEVER see a 20-21 year old debut in the MLB and be successful and turn into a star. There is never just huge jumps in development, it's always slow and methodical based on the potential rating they get. You will never see a 77 overall 21 year old jump to a 90 after an all star season. It simply does not happen. There is very little dynamic change in ratings.

Also certain positions for whatever reason develop better than others, and certain positions just simply aren't represented well enough in the draft.

By year 10 of a franchise nearly all 30 teams have a rotation with 80+ overall pitchers. This makes It near impossible for young players to ever crack it to the big leagues because it's oversaturated.

I also don't know why, but for many years I have noticed that the first two drafts (moreso the first) is always more loaded than any other class that comes out. Also the way development works in the show there aren't enough "different" type of players. Too many players are perfectly balanced across the board. You don't often see a guy with 50 contact and 80 power. It just seems like every player ends up being way too similar and balanced. There were improvements in the last couple years, but it is nowhere where it needs to be.

That goes without saying how awful the AI is at finding the good players and making poor decisions like drafting RP in the early rounds even though SDS literally said that wouldn't happen anymore.

Some attributes off the top of my head that I know many prospects come in way too low

H/9
K/9
Contact
Fielding

I have seen pitchers that look like they have good ratings, but they come into the MLB with a sub 50 h/9 and just get crushed. A generated pitcher getting 200ks in a season becomes SO rare deeper into a franchise.

All in all, for YEARS I have had to go into the top 100 prospect list and edit the ratings of prospects just so some would debut and be impactful. I had to come up with my own house rules.

The K ratings in general are messed up, even on the default roster because they don’t split the DD and regular roster for those stats enough.

I do agree that there could be a few more 21-22 year olds that come up, especially because it’s become more of a thing since they changed the draft rules. However is main issue is that there aren’t enough draft rounds so the player pool is a little thin to begin with.

If anything, too many players that get drafted go into the MLB because the actual % of MLBers from any draft is only 10-15% on average. I get that it’s higher in the game because there is no international signing for foreign players and only 6 rounds. But looking at just the 2019 draft as a sample (because it was 5 drafts ago), only 13% of the players drafted have had at least 1 AB in the MLB. Of the 559 hitters drafted that year, only 14 (2.5%) have played more than 300 games.

This is the draft that had Rutschman, Witt Jr., Henderson, Volpe, Abrams, Stott, and Corbin Carroll. Most drafts aren’t that deep with talent, so it’s crazy that while those guys all came up quickly, there are still a significant number of players that haven’t been up yet or just got their call up after they turned 24.

There is definitely some room for improvement (developing pitchers as an example), but there shouldn’t be too many guys making the MLB. If they add 4 more draft rounds and go to 10, it would make for more realistic numbers of players panning out.

[0blong00]

Re: MLB The Show 25 Should Have Something to Prove

Go download the OS 100 roster. I forgot who did it, but there’s a thread in the rosters section for it. The guy simmed out 100 years and exported the roster. If anything there is OVR bloat. Most teams have all 5 starters 80+. There are plenty of hitters in the 70s sitting in AAA. Whatever progression problems may exist, the game is certainly capable(at least based on OVR)of producing mlb caliber talent.