Best catcher at the moment?

[papadell]

Re: Best catcher at the moment?

No such thing. All swings are the exact same speed.

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This definitely isn't true. There's always been guys like Bench and Schmidt that have noticeably slower swings that leads to them not getting used a lot. Even guys like Mays, Piazza and Ripken Jr have had awful swings that people end up disliking. And on the flip side, guys like Lofton and Mondesi have lightning fast swings that lead to them being more used than their attributes might indicate.

Additionally, and this is important for mets, the swing type also affects timing windows. Without looking at Tatis, he is probably either a Pull or Extreme Pull hitter. That means that his timing window for inside pitches is greater than other players might have. Essentially, you have more time to react with Tatis or other Extreme Pull guys on inside pitches. If you're used to using players that aren't pull hitters, you're probably used to gearing up for fastballs to time them. The same approach with Tatis could lead to early swings.

It's a very nuanced element of the game that doesn't get talked about a lot. And SDS doesn't like explaining how their game works for some reason. But think about these things or even go into practice and mess around to see the timing variance for yourself and it can make a world of difference.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Best catcher at the moment?

Last year, a guy did some testing: https://youtu.be/gsE1kTr51Pw

Mike Schmidt's swing was the exact same speed as Mike Trout's. 4 frames. Every swing is the same speed. Some swings seeming "slower" are optical illusions.

That's not to say that that swing and stance don't matter. They do. But it's subjective. There are no objectively better (or "faster") swings. Like you said, Pull/Balanced/Push hitter effect where the timing windows would be for more solid contact (and SDS actually did talk about this in one of the pre release streams). A lot of swings have visual indicators that could help or hurt you. Ozzie Albies' big leg kick helps me do a lot better than his ratings left handed, but not as much right handed. I tend to have worse plate discipline with guys that are on top of the plate for whatever reason; especially righties. I tend to have better plate discipline with lefties who have their hands pretty high; like a Freddie Freeman, Joey Votto. No clue why, it's been that way since like MVP Baseball.

But the actual swings are all the same speed.

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[papadell]

Re: Best catcher at the moment?

Last year, a guy did some testing: https://youtu.be/gsE1kTr51Pw

Mike Schmidt's swing was the exact same speed as Mike Trout's. 4 frames. Every swing is the same speed. Some swings seeming "slower" are optical illusions.

That's not to say that that swing and stance don't matter. They do. But it's subjective. There are no objectively better (or "faster") swings. Like you said, Pull/Balanced/Push hitter effect where the timing windows would be for more solid contact (and SDS actually did talk about this in one of the pre release streams). A lot of swings have visual indicators that could help or hurt you. Ozzie Albies' big leg kick helps me do a lot better than his ratings left handed, but not as much right handed. I tend to have worse plate discipline with guys that are on top of the plate for whatever reason; especially righties. I tend to have better plate discipline with lefties who have their hands pretty high; like a Freddie Freeman, Joey Votto. No clue why, it's been that way since like MVP Baseball.

But the actual swings are all the same speed.

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I saw the video before and while I won't dismiss his findings, I'd need to see several more controlled experiments before I buy into it.

Just from my own experience playing the game, there are swings that feel like molasses and others that feel like lightning. Whether that's animation based or a tie in between stance/tendency I'm not sure and won't ever attempt to say in absolution. And that's across all tendencies as well.

So I guess I don't disagree or agree. I'd love to see more tests run because I can't help but feel there IS a difference in speeds. I love Johnny Bench as a player and historical baseball figure. I HATE him in MLB The Show because his swing sucks. He doesn't produce great outcomes whatsoever. Same with Ripken. Two all-time favorites who feel like they're swing a slow pool noodle.

But there's also stuff like connection/latency that can affect these things and every game is different. This game is so random at times that you could tell me something about gameplay and I wouldn't be able to dispute it haha

[brunopuntzjones]

Re: Best catcher at the moment?

All swings being the same speed makes sense to me, as does stance/animation/tendency mattering more. I'm another one who tends to struggle with righties with closed stances. I've had success, as a directional hitter, leaning into a guy's tendency with my influence. I think mental game is a factor here, too. If you think "I suck with him/his swing sucks" whenever you're at the plate you're going to mess up your timing and discipline.

One big animation thing I've noticed is that some guys tend to "dive" towards the ball as they swing (Mondesi, Blackmon, JBJ) and others just swing through the zone steadily. I think the former is just an animation thing that conveys the illusion of extra speed.

I've also struggled at times with guys like Bench, Schmidt, and Ripken but I've also been able to really slap with some of their cards if I use them a bit and get over any immediate trouble I have with them.

Another thing all of those guys have in common is that, except for their high diamonds, they often have inconsistent or kinda weak hitting attributes. I mean, look at 92 Bench's ratings, or 87 Schmidt's platoon split, or remember how 94 Ripken last year had mediocre power on one side (righties I think).

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Best catcher at the moment?

I saw the video before and while I won't dismiss his findings, I'd need to see several more controlled experiments before I buy into it.



Just from my own experience playing the game, there are swings that feel like molasses and others that feel like lightning. Whether that's animation based or a tie in between stance/tendency I'm not sure and won't ever attempt to say in absolution. And that's across all tendencies as well.



So I guess I don't disagree or agree. I'd love to see more tests run because I can't help but feel there IS a difference in speeds. I love Johnny Bench as a player and historical baseball figure. I HATE him in MLB The Show because his swing sucks. He doesn't produce great outcomes whatsoever. Same with Ripken. Two all-time favorites who feel like they're swing a slow pool noodle.



But there's also stuff like connection/latency that can affect these things and every game is different. This game is so random at times that you could tell me something about gameplay and I wouldn't be able to dispute it haha

Some else went in and tried to figure why speeds feel faster or slower than others: https://youtu.be/3fnAsCTidEE

Basically, while every swing from beginning to end is the same speed, how they get there isn't. Trout's swing isn't faster than Soriano's, but his animation stays back longer so it looks faster, even if the time from button press to contact is exactly the same.

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[RyanLeaf16]

Re: Best catcher at the moment?

I’d say LS Salvador Perez is the best LS catcher at the moment.

For those of us with a budget or not having unlimited stubs, I’d say Yankees collection Gary Sanchez or Rangers collection Mike Napoli would be good options as well.

I am currently using Dillon Dingler. Would not recommend.

Also with regards to swing timing, check out Gutfoxx’s video on YouTube. All swings have the same speed, what he found was that pull/extreme pull hitters seem to get a better PCI timing window than whole field and opposite field hitters. This, creating the “slow swing” narrative.


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[jake19ny]

Re: Best catcher at the moment?

The Breakout Napoli crushes balls. His downside is he's slow on the base path but most catchers are. Other than that it's the 90 Realmuto. Good bat, arm, and speed.