Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

[Jamal G.]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

RBIs are subjective?

Yes, because it is largely dependent on the players surrounding you in a lineup. The RBI stat is to hitters as the W-L record and saves stat are to pitchers: they are too dependent on one's teammates to correctly gauge a player's value.

There is a reason why people roll there eyes whenever a player's batting average, win-loss record, saves count or RBI total is brought into a discussion about said player's value - they are archaic, dumb stats.

[JermaineDye05]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

Josh Hamilton is definitely not the best centerfield in baseball.

I suggest you start watching some Indians games, my friend.

Agreed. Grady Sizemore gets better every season. I hate him because he plays for the Indians. He's definitely probably #1 of players in the Central (Not on the Sox) that I respect. Joe Mauer and Curtis Granderson are right behind him.

[JoeRyan33]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

RBIs are subjective?

Subjective to the hitter...situations determine RBI opportunities, not performance. Using RBIs to make a case is like using wins and loses to measure pitchers.

[TeixeiraFanatic]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

Defensively, he has a higher range factor.

Really?

[JoeRyan33]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

Agreed. Grady Sizemore gets better every season. I hate him because he plays for the Indians. He's definitely probably #1 of players in the Central (Not on the Sox) that I respect. Joe Mauer and Curtis Granderson are right behind him.

Sizemore gets better every season? Care to explain that?

[ty5oke]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

If Hamilton or Granderson were running around with Chief Wahoo on his hat, you'd argue they were better. I know the home town bias.

The stats are clear. Hamilton wins handily.

Even if you believe Hamilton is the better player, to say that the stats are clear and he is handily the better player seems a little too far.

Sizemore - 101 R 39 2B 33 HR 90 RBI 98 BB 130 K 38 SB .268/.375/.502/.877
Hamilton - 98 R 35 2B 32 HR 130 RBI 64 BB 126 K 9 SB .304/.371/.530/.901

Please explain how this shows "handily" that Hamilton is the better player. IF you give the edge to Hamilton because of RBI's? Maybe Hamilton has a better average, but Sizemore also walked 34 more times and thus a pretty similar OBP. Sizemore also gets the SB which put himself in scoring position on a lot of the walks.

[Brewhaha]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

Subjective to the hitter...situations determine RBI opportunities, not performance. Using RBIs to make a case is like using wins and loses to measure pitchers.

I know, and I agree, I was just being a smart *** based on the way that was worded.

[JoeRyan33]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

Really?

2.67 to 2.58 in 2008.

[JoeRyan33]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

Even if you believe Hamilton is the better player, to say that the stats are clear and he is handily the better player seems a little too far.

Sizemore - 101 R 39 2B 33 HR 90 RBI 98 BB 130 K 38 SB .268/.375/.502/.877
Hamilton - 98 R 35 2B 32 HR 130 RBI 64 BB 126 K 9 SB .304/.371/.530/.901

Please explain how this shows "handily" that Hamilton is the better player. IF you give the edge to Hamilton because of RBI's? Maybe Hamilton has a better average, but Sizemore also walked 34 more times and thus a pretty similar OBP. Sizemore also gets the SB which put himself in scoring position on a lot of the walks.

How much difference does a +32 rate compared to a +8 rate in steals make in the course of a season? I don't value the stolen base as highly as some. Hitting is more important in creating runs.

Hamilton still topped him in runs created per 27 either way.

[TeixeiraFanatic]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

2.67 to 2.58 in 2008.

Not a biggie as i know what you meant but it is 2.64. And a .006 margin big whoop.

[JoeRyan33]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

Not a biggie as i know what you meant but it is 2.64. And a .006 margin big whoop.

As a centerfielder, it was 2.67 and we're measuring them as centerfielders.

[Jamal G.]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

How is having a .997 fielding percentage make you the worst defensive center fielder in baseball?

Because nobody who enjoys the statistical analysis aspect of baseball would ever dare to argue "Fielding Percentage" in a discussion about a player's defense?

McLouth was -40 using Bill James' Plus-Minus system as a center fielder in 2008; that means he made 40 fewer plays than the league-average defender at that position (worst in baseball). Also, his UZR/150 was 14.3 runs below average (costing his team roughly one win by himself over the 2008 season) - not to mention taking into account range runs only, he was 15.9 below average. In terms of range and actually getting to the ball (which is the most important thing an outfielder can do, which is why fielding percentage is an unbelievably stupid stat to use), Nate McLouth was not only the worst center fielder in baseball in 2008, but one of the ten-worst outfielders in baseball.

Lastly, discounting his abhorrent defensive value for a second, he hit .257/.331/.437 not including the first two months of the season, he isn't that good.

[JoeRyan33]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

The nail on the head of this one...

Josh Hamilton has quit chewing tobacco. All this clean living, he might hit 45 HR this year, and have an even better range factor for us to talk about.

Hopefully SCEA update the rankings accordingly.

[humaca80]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

how about you guys make a thread in "pro baseball" "whos better Sizemore or Josh Hamilton?"

[TeixeiraFanatic]

Re: Top 5 Center Fielders in MLB09 The Show

Alright alright.

I still think Sizemore is the better player because he does more for his team and is more of an all-around player.