Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

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  • magoo1967
    Pro
    • Mar 2004
    • 784

    #226
    re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

    Man this thread got kind of ugly, and I guess I'm partially to blame because I was on here the last couple of days venting my frustration after several consecutive late inning comebacks by the CPU. I feel bad about that now, because I do think I might have been over reacting quite a bit ("knee jerk" as Russell called it). I am not by any means saying that some of the oddness I was seeing was realistic, but I also appreciated Russell taking the time to address those of us who believe there might be a problem. He says there is no comeback AI, and I believe him. SCEA has been nothing but upfront & honest with the community and have given us unprecedented access to them and what goes into making this game. Like many have said, this is a different game this year and there is definitely a learning curve.

    I have spent almost my entire day off today trying to figure out what I may be doing wrong to have these CPU offense surges occur at such an abnormal rate. I know that 1 day isn't much time, and I am not claiming that I figured anything out definitively, but I did make some adjustments that seem very positive. Some of the adjustments involved my approach to hitting, but that doesn't really apply to this topic (but I'm improving nicely here as well). As for all the other stuff, I decided to go back to the default sliders since I have been messing with them like crazy since the game came out. I think this alone improved things quite a bit. My first 6 games after going back to default have been awesome. I won one game on Veteran and went 2-3 on All-Star which was my regular level in past years. I almost got no-hit by Fausto Carmona in one game which was a lesson in frustration (broke it up in the 8th, that felt good), I ultimately lost 2-0 but it was an awesome game. I also started taking a much more "intense" approach to pitching and it's helping a lot. I think I was relying too much on how I pitched when playing the previous 3 years of The Show, and as we all know MLB 09 is a different animal. It sounds simple, but I am thinking way more about every single pitch before I throw it. I don't rely on the catcher's suggestions as much, only sometimes if it makes sense to me. I pay more attention to each hitters hot/cold zones, and I think about how I pitched to him in previous at bats so I don't repeat myself too much. It's also imperative to consider the count at all times. I know that these are all things you are supposed to be doing as a pitcher, but I believe that in MLB 09 you need to stay much more focused on each of them than in past years. Of course, I still make mistakes and pay for most of them, but that's the big leagues baby!

    I don't know if it was because I "normalized" the sliders or because I am approaching things differently (probably both), but I had a ton of fun with this game today and I can't wait to get some more games in ASAP. I guess the moral of this diatribe would be to reverse an old saying..."don't hate the game, hate the playa'!"
    "There are only two seasons—winter and baseball." - Bill Veeck

    Comment

    • bcruise
      Hall Of Fame
      • Mar 2004
      • 23274

      #227
      re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

      Originally posted by swaldo
      One thing I keep hearing is "Your strategy stinks, your not pitching right" etc. Then there's a guy who says he is seeing comeback AI in CPU vs CPU games.

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but testing this via CPU vs CPU will put all these "Your not playing right" complaints to rest, correct? I'm currently testing this on HOF level CPU vs CPU with mixed results. I won't post my findings yet because I don't want to get the small sample response and will need to set up a probability chart so I can compare to real MLB games.

      I work from home and can do alot of testing. If there is something funny I will find out. Also, I'm totally impartial. I very much hope there is no comeback AI because this is a great game otherwise.
      I'm actually doing something similar. I've decided to start two rivalry series - one where I play, and one I watch. I'm going to alternate between the two, and just see how they play out. Mostly I'm just killing time until opening day, but if it can help I don't mind sharing the results.

      I don't want to get hit by the sample size argument either, but I just want to say the first two games of the played series have been amazing. The first game was the one I screenshotted earlier in this thread, and the 2nd was (GASP!) a CPU comeback in the 9th. But hold on there - because of when I took the lead (the 8th) it didn't give my closer enough time to get warm, and he predictably sucked eggs.

      Comment

      • swaldo
        MVP
        • Jul 2002
        • 1268

        #228
        re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

        Originally posted by jim416
        No offense, but did you read where Russell has said AGAIN, lol, that there is no comeback code in this game?
        Please read the last paragraph of my post. I heard it but that doesn't mean I beleive it.

        Comment

        • swaldo
          MVP
          • Jul 2002
          • 1268

          #229
          re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

          And I want to make clear I'm not calling out Russell as a liar. I just wonder if he is privy to that kind of information. Is he that deep and ingrained in the development process? Has any game ever admitted to cheating?

          Comment

          • jim416
            Banned
            • Feb 2003
            • 10606

            #230
            re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

            Originally posted by magoo1967
            Man this thread got kind of ugly, and I guess I'm partially to blame because I was on here the last couple of days venting my frustration after several consecutive late inning comebacks by the CPU. I feel bad about that now, because I do think I might have been over reacting quite a bit ("knee jerk" as Russell called it). I am not by any means saying that some of the oddness I was seeing was realistic, but I also appreciated Russell taking the time to address those of us who believe there might be a problem. He says there is no comeback AI, and I believe him. SCEA has been nothing but upfront & honest with the community and have given us unprecedented access to them and what goes into making this game. Like many have said, this is a different game this year and there is definitely a learning curve.

            I have spent almost my entire day off today trying to figure out what I may be doing wrong to have these CPU offense surges occur at such an abnormal rate. I know that 1 day isn't much time, and I am not claiming that I figured anything out definitively, but I did make some adjustments that seem very positive. Some of the adjustments involved my approach to hitting, but that doesn't really apply to this topic (but I'm improving nicely here as well). As for all the other stuff, I decided to go back to the default sliders since I have been messing with them like crazy since the game came out. I think this alone improved things quite a bit. My first 6 games after going back to default have been awesome. I won one game on Veteran and went 2-3 on All-Star which was my regular level in past years. I almost got no-hit by Fausto Carmona in one game which was a lesson in frustration (broke it up in the 8th, that felt good), I ultimately lost 2-0 but it was an awesome game. I also started taking a much more "intense" approach to pitching and it's helping a lot. I think I was relying too much on how I pitched when playing the previous 3 years of The Show, and as we all know MLB 09 is a different animal. It sounds simple, but I am thinking way more about every single pitch before I throw it. I don't rely on the catcher's suggestions as much, only sometimes if it makes sense to me. I pay more attention to each hitters hot/cold zones, and I think about how I pitched to him in previous at bats so I don't repeat myself too much. It's also imperative to consider the count at all times. I know that these are all things you are supposed to be doing as a pitcher, but I believe that in MLB 09 you need to stay much more focused on each of them than in past years. Of course, I still make mistakes and pay for most of them, but that's the big leagues baby!

            I don't know if it was because I "normalized" the sliders or because I am approaching things differently (probably both), but I had a ton of fun with this game today and I can't wait to get some more games in ASAP. I guess the moral of this diatribe would be to reverse an old saying..."don't hate the game, hate the playa'!"

            That's a great post. Magoo, I'm not the greatest gamer in the world, but from playing the build we did up in San Diego I was thinking to myself, "uh, oh....gonna be some people who are gonna be screamin' about the game". Why, exactly what you have said and addressed. I've said it over and over, IT'S A NEW LEARN from last year. Heck, I'm starting a franchise, farting around, restarting one, don't intend to get into a serious one for about another week as I feel I'm still adjusting, but like you, I'm taking a real baseball approach to things and not a video game approach.

            Again, great, clear post by you.

            And sliders. Too many people are wanting them to "fix" their gameplay issues. This isn't The Show 08. The only slider I've fooled with is pitch speed all the way down, and I'm playing on VET, a big drop in difficulty mode for me from last year.
            Last edited by jim416; 03-12-2009, 12:52 AM.

            Comment

            • Yanks22
              Pro
              • Feb 2009
              • 659

              #231
              re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

              Originally posted by magoo1967
              Man this thread got kind of ugly, and I guess I'm partially to blame because I was on here the last couple of days venting my frustration after several consecutive late inning comebacks by the CPU. I feel bad about that now, because I do think I might have been over reacting quite a bit ("knee jerk" as Russell called it). I am not by any means saying that some of the oddness I was seeing was realistic, but I also appreciated Russell taking the time to address those of us who believe there might be a problem. He says there is no comeback AI, and I believe him. SCEA has been nothing but upfront & honest with the community and have given us unprecedented access to them and what goes into making this game. Like many have said, this is a different game this year and there is definitely a learning curve.

              I have spent almost my entire day off today trying to figure out what I may be doing wrong to have these CPU offense surges occur at such an abnormal rate. I know that 1 day isn't much time, and I am not claiming that I figured anything out definitively, but I did make some adjustments that seem very positive. Some of the adjustments involved my approach to hitting, but that doesn't really apply to this topic (but I'm improving nicely here as well). As for all the other stuff, I decided to go back to the default sliders since I have been messing with them like crazy since the game came out. I think this alone improved things quite a bit. My first 6 games after going back to default have been awesome. I won one game on Veteran and went 2-3 on All-Star which was my regular level in past years. I almost got no-hit by Fausto Carmona in one game which was a lesson in frustration (broke it up in the 8th, that felt good), I ultimately lost 2-0 but it was an awesome game. I also started taking a much more "intense" approach to pitching and it's helping a lot. I think I was relying too much on how I pitched when playing the previous 3 years of The Show, and as we all know MLB 09 is a different animal. It sounds simple, but I am thinking way more about every single pitch before I throw it. I don't rely on the catcher's suggestions as much, only sometimes if it makes sense to me. I pay more attention to each hitters hot/cold zones, and I think about how I pitched to him in previous at bats so I don't repeat myself too much. It's also imperative to consider the count at all times. I know that these are all things you are supposed to be doing as a pitcher, but I believe that in MLB 09 you need to stay much more focused on each of them than in past years. Of course, I still make mistakes and pay for most of them, but that's the big leagues baby!

              I don't know if it was because I "normalized" the sliders or because I am approaching things differently (probably both), but I had a ton of fun with this game today and I can't wait to get some more games in ASAP. I guess the moral of this diatribe would be to reverse an old saying..."don't hate the game, hate the playa'!"
              i agree man i've tried not to sit on here with the arguing and all just been playing more and more. i've stopped my franchise though. i decided i am just gonna start up after the final roster comes out before opening day. so until then i'll just continue to play more and more. just was playing one with yanks vs the indians. had a perfect game going with joba through six had retired 15 straight and then the computer broke up that. in the top of the ninth the computer came back with 3 runs of their own but i still won 6-3. just applying the ways i've always pitched since the show 07-08 and using that to adjust to the beauty that is the show 09. so things are good. cannot wait to start my new franchise now. until then just play and practice more and more that is all. and thank you russel for responding to us. much appreciated man
              MLB: Yankees
              NFL: Giants
              NBA: Knicks
              NHL: Rangers

              Comment

              • jim416
                Banned
                • Feb 2003
                • 10606

                #232
                re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                Originally posted by swaldo
                Please read the last paragraph of my post. I heard it but that doesn't mean I beleive it.

                Yeah, I read your "real world" statement. Wow, go ahead. Your last two posts really say a lot. These guys have only been coming here for years and developing a game with our input (see end credits of The Show), but you're right, gotta think of the "real world".

                Comment

                • EnigmaNemesis
                  Animal Liberation
                  • Apr 2006
                  • 12216

                  #233
                  re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                  Originally posted by swaldo
                  Please read the last paragraph of my post. I heard it but that doesn't mean I beleive it.
                  Originally posted by swaldo
                  And I want to make clear I'm not calling out Russell as a liar. I just wonder if he is privy to that kind of information. Is he that deep and ingrained in the development process? Has any game ever admitted to cheating?

                  Well with that, now there is no point keeping this alive, since they "wont tell us this information"... so you are beating a dead horse.

                  Move along, nothing to see here.
                  Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

                  Comment

                  • dodgerblue
                    MVP
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 1239

                    #234
                    re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                    I couldn't help but jump into the fray. I decided to pick a random date from mlb last year and review the stats. Low and behold, there are 1 run victories, about 25% of a teams games are decided by 1 run. Also comebacks, blowouts and blown leads. I invite everyone to check out



                    for an example of an average day in the mlb. Looks alot like what some people are complaining about in this game.
                    Pitchers and Catchers Report; Life Worth Living Again

                    Comment

                    • EnigmaNemesis
                      Animal Liberation
                      • Apr 2006
                      • 12216

                      #235
                      re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                      Originally posted by dodgerblue
                      I couldn't help but jump into the fray. I decided to pick a random date from mlb last year and review the stats. Low and behold, there are 1 run victories, about 25% of a teams games are decided by 1 run. Also comebacks, blowouts and blown leads. I invite everyone to check out



                      for an example of an average day in the mlb. Looks alot like what some people are complaining about in this game.
                      Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

                      Comment

                      • bcruise
                        Hall Of Fame
                        • Mar 2004
                        • 23274

                        #236
                        re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                        Originally posted by dodgerblue
                        I couldn't help but jump into the fray. I decided to pick a random date from mlb last year and review the stats. Low and behold, there are 1 run victories, about 25% of a teams games are decided by 1 run. Also comebacks, blowouts and blown leads. I invite everyone to check out



                        for an example of an average day in the mlb. Looks alot like what some people are complaining about in this game.
                        Haha, great point. In addition, the day before that Gagne blew a 9th inning save chance against the Cubs, but vultured a win.

                        Comment

                        • magoo1967
                          Pro
                          • Mar 2004
                          • 784

                          #237
                          re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                          Originally posted by jim416
                          That's a great post. Magoo, I'm not the greatest gamer in the world, but from playing the build we did up in San Diego I was thinking to myself, "uh, oh....gonna be some people who are gonna be screamin' about the game". Why, exactly what you have said and addressed. I've said it over and over, IT'S A NEW LEARN from last year. Heck, I'm starting a franchise, farting around, restarting one, don't intend to get into a serious one for about another week as I feel I'm still adjusting, but like you, I'm taking a real baseball approach to things and not a video game approach.

                          Again, great, clear post by you.

                          And sliders. Too many people are wanting them to "fix" their gameplay issues. This isn't The Show 08. The only slider I've fooled with is pitch speed all the way down, and I'm playing on VET, a big drop in difficulty mode for me from last year.
                          Thanks Jim, glad it made sense. As you may have noticed, I tend to be a bit wordy. I hear what you're saying about the sliders. I got a little crazy adjusting things out of frustration this past week. I started messing with everything CPU/User/Global...hell I started thinking my bullpen was getting rocked because they were too close to the sound system & I had the music set to loud . Then I remembered a post by Brian Ma a while back where he was attempting to explain how the sliders worked (talk about a wordy guy, lol...j/k I actually love reading his posts). I remember him explaining how each slider can have a ripple effect on other aspects of the game, and you may not realize that you're changing more than just that one thing (my simplified words, not his). With all the tweaks I was making, who knows what they were effecting? So I went back to square one and I'm staying ultra focused on keeping my baseball brain sharp at all times. I think I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel now. At least I hope that's what it is, or perhaps it's just a fastball coming towards my dome, we'll see (I'm gonna go ahead and duck just in case).
                          "There are only two seasons—winter and baseball." - Bill Veeck

                          Comment

                          • Ruffy
                            MVP
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 1516

                            #238
                            re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                            Hilarious thread....Kudos to who started it. Joke thread of the year and all of OS got sucked in....well done my friend.

                            I nominate you for thread of the year...I love the parts where you are told the trut yet still deny it.

                            How these threads are not instantly closed after the answer is givin by a SONY DEV is beyond me.

                            But hey I read fast and for 20 minutes I laughed at peoples responses.



                            These threads should always be immediately shut down and the OP should be reminded to use their Arena for a blog on their BS theories.
                            Former Bison, Argonaut, TSN and Sportsnet employee.
                            Gaming since the days of the NES, Atari and Intellivision.
                            Lifelong Hartford Whaler fan.

                            Comment

                            • EnigmaNemesis
                              Animal Liberation
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 12216

                              #239
                              re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                              Originally posted by Ruffy
                              I love the parts where you are told the trut yet still deny it.

                              How these threads are not instantly closed after the answer is givin by a SONY DEV is beyond me.

                              These threads should always be immediately shut down and the OP should be reminded to use their Arena for a blog on their BS theories.
                              Boston Red Sox | Miami Dolphins

                              Comment

                              • Segagendude
                                Banned
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 7940

                                #240
                                re: Too many two out inning rallies by AI!! (Comeback AI Discussion)

                                And I read some of the pitching tips here, about how to PROPERLY use the pitch meter.
                                So far, default All Star, except pitch speed turned down a couple, I've had two tight games, one win, one loss. But no Comeback AI yet....
                                (The loss was my fault;I had one strike to go, and just as I released, the (*^& phone rang and it became a high fastball that was smacked for a game winning HR.......this game commands full attention, no doubt!)

                                Comment

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