Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

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  • Austin Hawk
    Rookie
    • Sep 2009
    • 78

    #1

    Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

    I've been playing a couple of seasons with the M's and am still trying to learn some ways in which the game works since this is my first baseball game to play on the Playstation (I'm usually a Madden guy).

    I haven't quite figured out how some elements of progression work. If I have a young prospect with "A" or "B" potential, I assume that at some point they will be good enough to play in the majors and maybe be a star. However, I don't want to rush an 18-year old kid out there in the big leagues, even if his OVR is higher than my 35 year old veteran. But then I got to wondering...

    Is there any adverse effect to "rushing" a prospect out into the majors before he hits his "peak". If I throw a 19-year old pitcher with loads of talent and an "A" potential onto Safeco field against the Yankees, will it have no real effect on his progression? In other words, if he gets jacked up and finishes with a horrible record and an ERA over 8.00, will he not progress as much, or possibly regress? Is statistical performance a factor in progression?

    Also, how much does team success figure into progression? Would a player fare better playing for a winning AAA team or for a losing MLB team? I can see justification for that in the sense that winning brings about confidence (and we all know baseball is all about confidence).

    Can anyone tell me the advantages/disadvantages to leaving a prospect in the minors for a couple of years? (In game terms, not reality where I know maturity and confidence play a significant role).
  • cardsleadtheway
    Banned
    • Jun 2009
    • 1911

    #2
    Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

    I hope you get some answers here. Progression is perhaps the best kept secret to this game. It seems that even the developers aren't sure how it works.

    As for advantages or disadvantages of playing a young player in the majors, in my experience the same rated players will not perform as well when they are younger. Now take this with a grain of salt, as it is only from my own personal experience. I tend to do much better with lower rated vets than higher rated kids, at least in the hitting department. This could be the clutch factor or something else that I am not aware of. Who knows?

    Comment

    • bxgoods
      Pro
      • May 2009
      • 538

      #3
      Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

      I haven't seen anything that shows more progression in the minors than majors, I don't see any punishment for rushing a player except...
      Potential is dynamic somewhat, so if he doesn't perform well and go through a couple cold streaks, his potential will drop. So I guess that's a punishment for pushing a guy not ready.

      Comment

      • Austin Hawk
        Rookie
        • Sep 2009
        • 78

        #4
        Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

        Originally posted by bxgoods
        Potential is dynamic somewhat, so if he doesn't perform well and go through a couple cold streaks, his potential will drop. So I guess that's a punishment for pushing a guy not ready.
        If this is true, then it's key. For example, in year four of my franchise I have drafted a stud RF with "A" potential who happens to be rated significantly higher than my current MLB Right Fielder (Langerhans, mediocre). The problem is that he is only 18 years old. In the real world, he would likely NOT be rushed out for at least a couple of years due to maturity issues, pressure to perform, confidence, etc. But in GAME terms I was unsure as to whether there could be negative consequences. If potential is indeed DYNAMIC then I would worry that poor on-field performance might lower it to a "B".

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        • Crinos2
          Banned
          • Jul 2009
          • 37

          #5
          Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

          From what I've seen using Knight's rosters, it doesn't matter whether you play him in AA, AAA, MLB. I've only gotten through 3 full seasons a few times now cause free agency would fill up, and all of those franchises were with Knight's.
          Anyways, I have not seen any one player progress or regress in his potential grade. What I have noticed is that all players will progress more over the 2nd and 3rd years of your franchise. For example, I had Jose Tabata in my last franchise. The first year he progressed 12 points. The 2nd year he progressed 22 points and the 3rd year he progressed 33 points. He was a full barred A potential prospect. I didn't bring him up until half way through year 2 due to an injury. He wasn't exactly tearing it up in AAA or in his part time duty in the majors. And even in his 3rd year I only had him as a part time player. I really haven't seen where progression is so "dynamic" that performance is the only factor in progression. I have seen players that tore it up all year that did progress as an A or B more than other A's or B's. But I've also noticed that once an A potential player is maxed out in an area or close to it, all of his other attributes will not progress a substantial amount more than the attribute thats already maxed out and not gaining anymore points. And C D ranked players will also progress more in the later years, but some will go 7 points, some will go 11. I think that does have something to do with performance as once in a great while you will get an email late in the year about a player tearing it up in AA or AAA when the organization thinks he's overplayed his potential all year.
          Pitchers on the other hand will never gain break on the stuff EVER. They don't progress the same. With hitters you'll always see a pretty even progression in every attribute every year i.e. 4 lh contact 4 rh contact 3 3 lh rh power etc...pitchers may gain 2 stamina, but drop 5 points in walks gain 3 in K's etc. I haven't seen how training regimen factors into progression though, so auto or manual training shouldn't make a difference.
          Hope that helps.

          Comment

          • bxgoods
            Pro
            • May 2009
            • 538

            #6
            Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

            Progression from year to year is cumalative.
            If you see a player is +12 year one and +22 year two, it means he only progressed +10 year 2 and actually had a bigger increase year one. Prospects from what I have seen usually have greater progression when their rating is low, the higher their rating gets, the smaller their progression is in the next offseason.

            And potential is not that dynamic, they change their potential quote on the back of their card through the year, but I've only seen once a player drop from a A potential rating to B.

            Comment

            • cardsleadtheway
              Banned
              • Jun 2009
              • 1911

              #7
              Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

              Originally posted by bxgoods
              Progression from year to year is cumalative.
              If you see a player is +12 year one and +22 year two, it means he only progressed +10 year 2 and actually had a bigger increase year one. Prospects from what I have seen usually have greater progression when their rating is low, the higher their rating gets, the smaller their progression is in the next offseason.

              And potential is not that dynamic, they change their potential quote on the back of their card through the year, but I've only seen once a player drop from a A potential rating to B.
              I saw Crisp in one test sim drop from a B to a C potential, but not always. What I did notice is that when you are signing players, there is a potential bar. After I finish the season, I am going to somehow make a not of this bar for all my players and see if it goes up or down the following season.

              Really what it comes down to for me is scrap the potential, the overall, all the ratings. If a player is tearing it up at one level, I bring him up, if he is stinking it up, I send him down. What good is it to have this magic potential rating of A if your player is batting below the Mendoza line? I would rather have my D utility player instead. I really like to hear people discussing how they bat really well with x player even though y player is rated much higher. It makes me think of real baseball.

              Comment

              • bxgoods
                Pro
                • May 2009
                • 538

                #8
                Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

                Originally posted by cardsleadtheway
                I saw Crisp in one test sim drop from a B to a C potential, but not always. What I did notice is that when you are signing players, there is a potential bar. After I finish the season, I am going to somehow make a not of this bar for all my players and see if it goes up or down the following season.

                Really what it comes down to for me is scrap the potential, the overall, all the ratings. If a player is tearing it up at one level, I bring him up, if he is stinking it up, I send him down. What good is it to have this magic potential rating of A if your player is batting below the Mendoza line? I would rather have my D utility player instead. I really like to hear people discussing how they bat really well with x player even though y player is rated much higher. It makes me think of real baseball.

                I agree, or make the potential more dynamic. As of right now, the chance for a player with D potential is nearly impossible to go to a B, let alone A.
                I would rather them do a evaluation on stats at the end of the year, and change the potential at the end of the year if a player isn't producing as expected or above expected.

                I'm going to check the potential bar in the off season to see how much a player can gain or not in a season, I don't think its a lot. I'm curious to see though.

                Comment

                • Reaman
                  MVP
                  • Jun 2009
                  • 2917

                  #9
                  Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

                  Originally posted by Austin Hawk
                  I've been playing a couple of seasons with the M's and am still trying to learn some ways in which the game works since this is my first baseball game to play on the Playstation (I'm usually a Madden guy).

                  I haven't quite figured out how some elements of progression work. If I have a young prospect with "A" or "B" potential, I assume that at some point they will be good enough to play in the majors and maybe be a star. However, I don't want to rush an 18-year old kid out there in the big leagues, even if his OVR is higher than my 35 year old veteran. But then I got to wondering...

                  Is there any adverse effect to "rushing" a prospect out into the majors before he hits his "peak". If I throw a 19-year old pitcher with loads of talent and an "A" potential onto Safeco field against the Yankees, will it have no real effect on his progression? In other words, if he gets jacked up and finishes with a horrible record and an ERA over 8.00, will he not progress as much, or possibly regress? Is statistical performance a factor in progression?

                  Also, how much does team success figure into progression? Would a player fare better playing for a winning AAA team or for a losing MLB team? I can see justification for that in the sense that winning brings about confidence (and we all know baseball is all about confidence).

                  Can anyone tell me the advantages/disadvantages to leaving a prospect in the minors for a couple of years? (In game terms, not reality where I know maturity and confidence play a significant role).
                  Wouldn't it depend on the playing time? I personally wouldn't think it depended on the record of the team! I think the player would progress more if he is actually starting for a AAA team then a bench/platoon player on a MLB team.

                  Comment

                  • cardsleadtheway
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2009
                    • 1911

                    #10
                    Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

                    Originally posted by bxgoods
                    I agree, or make the potential more dynamic. As of right now, the chance for a player with D potential is nearly impossible to go to a B, let alone A.
                    I would rather them do a evaluation on stats at the end of the year, and change the potential at the end of the year if a player isn't producing as expected or above expected.

                    I'm going to check the potential bar in the off season to see how much a player can gain or not in a season, I don't think its a lot. I'm curious to see though.
                    I just realized that it will only work for players that you sign for a single year, as you can only view the potential bar for players that you can offer contracts to. And even then, there is only a bar and no number so you will have to guess on what number the bar is in order to compare it to the next season. Oh well.

                    I agree with you on the inability to make a D potential player into something more. I really wanted to see Buck make a big league roster, but as it is he will lose 8 points at the end of the season. I would really like the whole potential thing to just go away, at least for players with more than three years. Instead, progression should be a combination of training and the stats you put up in the year. They [developers] use a weighted three year average to get the attributes in the first place, so using the same formula with the new stats wouldn't be that difficult. And using a three year average would make it so that you could put up big numbers, but not jump into super star right away. You could also put up terrible numbers and not end up a career minor leaguer. And then add an age limit, perhaps hidden, for each player where they will decline no matter how well you do, just not as much if you perform well. Just a thought

                    Comment

                    • bxgoods
                      Pro
                      • May 2009
                      • 538

                      #11
                      Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

                      I just noticed player ratings do increase during the season like nba 2k. It doesnt tell you in the player progression screen during the season but in the offseason it tells you how their rating changed in the season.Thats pretty awesome, so you could actually wait till the middle of a season to bring a prospect up becaise he might of started the season rated lower and made improvement by midseason.

                      Comment

                      • eyeamg0dly
                        MVP
                        • May 2009
                        • 1671

                        #12
                        Re: Progression in MLB vs. AAA and AA

                        assuming that progression did not change much (or at all) since last years game. then actually training your player makes the biggest difference in their progression and performance plays none. i did a test last year on manually training and auto training. i had the blue jays going on two seperate save files for 4 seasons and tracked the same pitchers during the duration, with different training methods.

                        basically, the pitchers had different stats (performance) for each sim. however they still improved each year, manually trained slightly edged out the auto training. as far as i can tell no matter how good or how bad they did, it didnt seem to effect the outcome of their progression.

                        so for game sakes, if that 18 year old can perform and contribute to your team, then bring him up. imo though i would leave him in the minors for at least a year or two. think about when you want his mlb service time to start running, specifically wait till after the trade deadline, so when he gets to his 6 years of service time, he will have to play that half of the season first, instead of losing out on him prior year to free agency.
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