Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

[Joey]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

+1 on the ability to import franchises (and custom rosters, while we are at it) to MLB '11. I know that's something for a wishlist thread but, hey, isn't this whole thread basically one? So instead of saying I "wish" they would add this I'll just keep with the spirit of this thread's title and say I think it's one of the keys to success for MLB '11: The Show.

Ah, who am I kidding. I'm buying it, regardless.

If you do have the ability to make the suggestions, please, please, please see about a franchise importing option. I hate to put so much work into my franchise only to start over again. I would love to play my same franchise with the yearly upgrades. Just a fantasy I have.

[Pared]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

You mean like the pitching meter?

Seriously though, if they can come up with a better way, cool. I don't have quite the creative ability coupled with the specific know how to accomplish something like that.

In the end, this is still the greatest game out there. I really wouldn't want anything implemented that would take away from the testing phase. We certainly don't want the amount of bugs to crop up this time around.

If you do have the ability to make the suggestions, please, please, please see about a franchise importing option. I hate to put so much work into my franchise only to start over again. I would love to play my same franchise with the yearly upgrades. Just a fantasy I have.

The pitching meter simply took what was already in the MLB series and changed hot it was displayed on the screen.

[swaldo]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

I wouldn't say they are useless.
In fact....I hope they do add a new analog stick pitching and batting mode. As a matter of fact, without knowing anything "inside" at all, my guess is you absolutely will see that....if not for '11 in a future version.
But I think that mode is absolutely going to be dependent on attributes, much like the current modes and I get the feeling that is where you and I part ways.
I just don't see where lending too much emphasis on user control as opposed to a balance of user/ratings has a place in an MLB simulation. A generic baseball game, that doesn't try and mimic the MLB in any way....I could see it, but even in that type of environment, there would have to be some way to hinder user control in order to have some semblance of a baseball game. What fun would it to hit .550 every year while the rest of the league(which would rely on ratings I assume) is struggling to break .350? I think that's already one of the major complaints of some guys...that even LEGEND is a bit easy now.
Which I will answer the last part...your question...and it's the exact thing that you want more of!....user input often causes a skewed stat outcome as compared to players in real life.
For me...I probably have as much chance of getting a hit with 35 rated contact hitter as I do with a 95 rated hitter. Very little ....but a good player probably has a better chance of seeing more realistic results. I have a feeling that by tipping the scale to TOO much user control....good players will have even low rated hitters batting well above .300....much like getting the groove of the pitching meter(which I am MUCH too good at for my liking) and never really throwing balls unless I like and getting way too many strikeouts, with even poor pitchers. That's why I reverted back to the classic mode of pitching, which puts much more emphasis on the attributes in determining a pitch.
I think it's nearly impossible to come up with something that gives more user control(I'm sure EVERY game has hidden cripples in it somewhere...in order to keep the user from simply mastering even the most difficult levels)...whether they show it to you or not is another case.
On a final note, I would never just dismiss anyone's ideas...I think yours are good......I think they just need to be mixed in with a different type of system.
Perhaps in a more user dependent game....they could employ some sort of Madden IQ, where the user would pitch/hit/field a set number of plays and the game would determine the "cripples" in order to give the best sim experience.....and maybe give you the chance to re-adjust through another run through the system in order as you feel under/overwhelmed with the game.

M.K.
Knight165

Thanks for the courteous and candid response. So what I hear you saying is that user input can be too easy or hard depending on the user; and you don't like to play that way because it skews stats. If that's how you feel then I think the arcade aspect definately needs a hard look. And I've heard the complaints too - such as the guy who played a whole year with user input and all his players ended up with pretty similiar stats.

So I think the question needs to be asked: how can you take the arcade experience and vary the difficulty - to the point where a pitcher in the batters box will feel severely handicapped? IMO it's going to require certain visual aids or liabilities tied to their abilities which replicate how they see the game. Some people will scoff at them as not being realistic, but if the current system is not working then what other choices are there?

I agree that it would be nearly impossible to get perfect statistical accuracy through user input alone. But I think there are things you can do to increase/decrease the challenge. Creativity would be needed and failure would ensue. Madden's 'vision cone' was a good idea but it just didn't stick.

If The Show had a separate "harcore" arcade mode (or options you can just turn on/off) and keep building in different ideas some are bound to work and might make the experience more fun and statistically realistic. And it's not just about putting in little colored balls, rather a combination of things.

And by the way I'm glad to hear they are (or might) be adding analog pitching/hitting. I look forward to seeing what they come up with in '11.

[cardsleadtheway]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

The pitching meter simply took what was already in the MLB series and changed hot it was displayed on the screen.

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the MVP series predate the MLB series? I would say that MLB completely ripped off the meter pitching concept only to take it to the next level. Not that it is a bad thing because the meter pitching is in my opinion the best thing out there. I wish The Show would take the same approach with fielding. They have upgraded every aspect of previous good baseball games save for fielding, which they took a step backwards.

[swaldo]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

Brinkman could have used any wording: Authentic, Real, "smell the hot dogs..." That doesn't mean anything when we're talking about guys that don't want little flashing balls and colors to infiltrate their game right now. I was one of MVP's biggest fans and I always turned that option off because it removed me from the experience of playing real baseball.

The Show has moved more and more towards sim, including the option to remove the visual aids of guess pitch so more users can have a visually realistic game. Asking for something that was in MVP because you liked it is entirely different than asking for something to help pick up movement on a pitch.

Currently, the pitchers grip the ball differently based on each pitch. They also hide the ball differently based on their motions. While their motions are 1:1 perfect representations of what the developers have created, the technology isn't there to modify these based on pitch types.

And visually picking up on a pitch will differ based on the monitor and resolution you are using to play your game.

I don't see what else is there to discuss on my end aside to simply offer to you that it seems like many disagree with you while others just want the flashing colored baseballs as a "solution" to a problem a good amount of people don't see. Personally, it doesn't make sense to argue such a thing and again just comes off to me as an argument simply to argue.

To each their own.

And I respect this opinion - you said you don't prefer 'Hitters Eye' and you stated why. I'm not going to act like a car salesman and try to sell you on a product you dont want. But just about everyone stated they liked some of my ideas, but instead of discussing the pro's and cons of each (and how they might or might not work in the game) I felt that a few unconstructive responses were slung my way. And you expect me to NOT respond when someone throws the popcorn guy at me? Nah man, I'm putting up my dukes every time.

And the "Hitters Eye" was just an example, I think there are things you can do that are similiar without it being a total ripoff. If you contact the devs and they say they're open to these sort of suggestions I'll go to work and think up some ideas. Otherwise, I have nothing more to say.

[countryboy]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the MVP series predate the MLB series? I would say that MLB completely ripped off the meter pitching concept only to take it to the next level. Not that it is a bad thing because the meter pitching is in my opinion the best thing out there. I wish The Show would take the same approach with fielding. They have upgraded every aspect of previous good baseball games save for fielding, which they took a step backwards.

I believe the Show evolved from the old Pennant Race game. I believe, that like EA/MVP, SCEA decided upon a name change with a new direction for their baseball franchise.

As for who predates whom, I believe the two franchises EA/SCEA are pretty much similar.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

A new feature in the hitting mechanic is not a necessity for me. I'd be welcome to some more seperation between great/good/bad CPU pitchers, but I'm not boycotting next year's title if they don't give us a new feature (flashing colors, etc). A new option actually scares me. The development process for a "new toy" generally takes a few years to perfect. Here's my case for adjustments vs. makeover.

This game has slightly too much up-side for a high power rating/downside for a contact guy with no power. A tweak in the power rating's importance could fix this.

The PCI is slightly too forgiving. Again, a tweak. No overhaul is needed.

Aces (CPU) are a little too easy to rattle (this kind of goes hand in hand with the PCI forgiveness). That said, run of the mill guys as well as "good" pitchers perform very realistically. No revamp is necessary.

User pitching is nearly perfect right now. As well CPU hitting (obviously, because these go hand in hand). My user walks allowed, strikeouts, hits per game, home runs allowed are all nearly spot on.

Fielding, on the other hand, really needs some work. A new feature here I would welcome, as long as auto field stays (just incase the new feature needs work).

Other than outfield errors and the stolen base/pickoff programming, I think I just about covered it (for in game play). This is game is beautiful! Am I the only one? We've got two choices:

1. Tear down, and rebuild.

2. Add to the foundation of this year's model

I'll take the latter. Why mess too much with a good thing?

[dp68]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

1. Create A Team (and be able to use it in Franchise Mode)

2. Create A Stadium

That's what I want!

[JaSnake16]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

This game has slightly too much up-side for a high power rating/downside for a contact guy with no power. A tweak in the power rating's importance could fix this.

You make some great points in your entire post. My only slight caveat would be that the power ratings for out of the box stock players should be slightly tweaked where a 99 overall power hitter may hit say on average 52 homers over a 10 season (not career but the same season over and over) sim. This would put power where it rightfully is currently in baseball. Right now these hitters over a sim average closer to 65 which may have worked 10 years ago but not now. Im sure the "curve" on the power ratings wouldnt be too much to adjust. This would work as well for "weaker" hitters where they could still be able to hit the most obvious mistake for a HR every now and then during a played game. Hope you get my point

[swaldo]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

A new feature in the hitting mechanic is not a necessity for me. I'd be welcome to some more seperation between great/good/bad CPU pitchers, but I'm not boycotting next year's title if they don't give us a new feature (flashing colors, etc). A new option actually scares me. The development process for a "new toy" generally takes a few years to perfect. Here's my case for adjustments vs. makeover.

This game has slightly too much up-side for a high power rating/downside for a contact guy with no power. A tweak in the power rating's importance could fix this.

The PCI is slightly too forgiving. Again, a tweak. No overhaul is needed.

Aces (CPU) are a little too easy to rattle (this kind of goes hand in hand with the PCI forgiveness). That said, run of the mill guys as well as "good" pitchers perform very realistically. No revamp is necessary.

User pitching is nearly perfect right now. As well CPU hitting (obviously, because these go hand in hand). My user walks allowed, strikeouts, hits per game, home runs allowed are all nearly spot on.

Fielding, on the other hand, really needs some work. A new feature here I would welcome, as long as auto field stays (just incase the new feature needs work).

Other than outfield errors and the stolen base/pickoff programming, I think I just about covered it (for in game play). This is game is beautiful! Am I the only one? We've got two choices:

1. Tear down, and rebuild.

2. Add to the foundation of this year's model

I'll take the latter. Why mess too much with a good thing?

I wonder if SCEA gets user data sent to them - similiar to EA who gets millions of reports so they can send out tune files to tweak problem areas? Seems like that would go a long way in improving the current system.

[dave724]

Well, I have been mentioning the playoff setup feature for use online/offline for more than 3 years. Glad someone found it on the forum. Here is a link to just one made earlier this year.

http://www.operationsports.com/vBulletin/scea-sports-mlb-online/401231-online-features-expansion-inclusion.html

[morieeel]

Im one of those in betweeners. I cant sit thru a MOM mode, but I dont like too much user influence in the game. I like the balance the SCEA team has provided. One thing I enjoy is that I dont need to be playing everyday to keep my skill levels equal or greater than I was previously. On the flip side, I feel like if I do play everyday, Im not increasing my teams success too much. Granted I improve a little with awareness and timing, but Im still married to my player ratings/confidence/hot-cold streaks. I cant say that with other sport titles. I wouldnt revamp what isnt broke.

[pberardi]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

Just do something about the confidence meter please. Especially with relief pitchers at higher levels. Too many relievers come in with super human late slider movement and get strikeouts with relative ease. After one strikeout, the reliever's confidence is maxed out and the no hit robo pitcher is well on his way. Very arcade if you ask me.

If anything, relief pitchers blow a tremendous amount of games with leads in real life. Also, since when do relievers have 5 pitches they can throw for strikes! Make it real. They have 3 pitches and can throw 2 for strikes.

There are far too many swing and misses on sliders and changeups. The timing definitely needs to be tweaked so that foul tips are better represented. Sliders don't prevail on this. Professional hitters can foul off tons of pitches to get one they can make decent contact. This should not add to hits but more groundouts and popups.

Also, I will lower a cpu's fastball from 95 to 92 because that's what he throws in real life and he'll still throw 95 in the game! Make the attributes show up in the game! Too many pitchers with high walk meters show incredible control. This again is driven by the confidence meter.

95% of the game plays perfect. This year's game has some real arcade like gameplay. I can pretty much tell if I'm going to win or lose by the 2nd inning. The game should have more surprises and exciting finishes which I don't see this year.

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[Armor and Sword]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

I went back and read this entire thread and found lot's of great points. While I do not own 2010 (playing 2009) the improvements I would like to see are pretty simple as I think this game is almost perfect.

1) Fielding and running controls - I don't think these are great at all. Clunky would be the word I would use. I was an MVP 2005 player (PS2) before getting the show 2009 and their fielding and baserunning was and is still the best ever. I don't field or baserun on The Show. It is all set to auto which I have had no problem with, I feel it is much more sim playing that way. But if they were to improve the tightness of the controls in that area I would love to play the field and run again. Right now for me it is too frustrating to try. Plus I am a ballplayer so it really get's me upset when the wrong fielder is chosen etc on hot liners etc. And the baserunning can really be a cluster **** sometimes IMO.

2) Presentation - Just keep adding to this. The game is beautiful and all it needs are some tweaks like a weekly show, highlights, rumors etc. Baseball tonight or MLB network type of stuff.


That's it. This game to me is one of the crown jewels of sports games (NBA2K11,NCAA2011 and NHL 2011 being the others).

I love the hitting. It truly gives me the feeling I am battling and fighting for every hit, HR that I get.

I love Classic pitching. I love the fact it is a feel based method, and that some days my guys have great stuff and some days they don't.

While I loved the meter on MVP, I found that once you got your timing down it was too easy. Now the meter on The Show is different, as you still will miss the strike zone even if you time it perfect....so with that happening I felt classic pitching worked better for me and visually looks much better as I use no visual aids for pitching or hitting other than 1/4 guess pitch for hitting.

Not much needs to be done IMO with gameplay other than more window dressing. and improved controls.

On the AI front this is where things can really be tweaked better so you don't have to control all 30 teams to play commisoner for the purpose of vetoing a trade that is stupid, or resigning guys you know would not be out on the market etc. So I hope they do a nice scrub of the franchise AI and improve that like 2K11 has managed to do for Association.

I hope 2011 tempts me to upgrade from 2009!

[MLB01]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

Just do something about the confidence meter please. Especially with relief pitchers at higher levels. Too many relievers come in with super human late slider movement and get strikeouts with relative ease. After one strikeout, the reliever's confidence is maxed out and the no hit robo pitcher is well on his way. Very arcade if you ask me.

If anything, relief pitchers blow a tremendous amount of games with leads in real life. Also, since when do relievers have 5 pitches they can throw for strikes! Make it real. They have 3 pitches and can throw 2 for strikes.

There are far too many swing and misses on sliders and changeups. The timing definitely needs to be tweaked so that foul tips are better represented. Sliders don't prevail on this. Professional hitters can foul off tons of pitches to get one they can make decent contact. This should not add to hits but more groundouts and popups.

Also, I will lower a cpu's fastball from 95 to 92 because that's what he throws in real life and he'll still throw 95 in the game! Make the attributes show up in the game! Too many pitchers with high walk meters show incredible control. This again is driven by the confidence meter.

95% of the game plays perfect. This year's game has some real arcade like gameplay. I can pretty much tell if I'm going to win or lose by the 2nd inning. The game should have more surprises and exciting finishes which I don't see this year.

Read More - Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

[/QUOTE]

You're wrong about it being " arcade like " and knowin' you'll win or lose by the 2nd inning, but that's one person's warped view of the game, so whatever.

Some of your pitching gripes can be fixed with a couple adjustments in the sliders menu. My last game - I was up 2 to nothin' in the 7th. Pettitte was tired, so I put it in a very confident and energetic Joba Chamberlain. He blew the lead and gave up 3 runs.

As far as the adjusting a pitcher's fastball rating, i don't know about that cause I don't feel a need to adjust anything like that.

As far as walks and swings and misses on sliders and such - again, slider adjustments can tailor this to the user's liking.