Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

[Knight165]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

You're batting is all wrong. First, you cannot aim your right stick in the 5 o'clock position. It's either up/down to influence flyball/grounder, or left/right to influence bunts to the 3rd or 1st base side. There's a typo in 'The Show 10' manual because it states left/right influences balls to first or third. However, look at the description when you change the influence setting on or off - it states it's for bunts only. Also, in 'The Show 09' both the in-game tutorial and manual say it's to be used for bunts. I think they do it this way because it's harder for a user to have total vertical control, whereas horizontal control is easier because it's based on swing timing (except bunts where the influence stick is the only way you can aim.)

You didn't mention where your left stick was aimed but if it was aimed in the middle then I wonder why it ended up a home run? Because since the right stick was down in the 5 o'clock it enabled the grounder influence! Now if you're going to tell me you made a mistake and it was the left stick pointing in the 5 o'clock that's still wrong, because aiming low will influence a flyball. If the pitch is low there's not much you can do and you'll probably hit it on the ground anyway. But if you really want to push a ball on the ground you have to make sure the PCI is on top of it and swing a bit late, so to do this I'd start with the PCI near the middle, not low. In general though, you really don't need to use the influence stick to hit the ball where you want.



First of all swing influence doesn't work in batting practice. Secondly, as stated above left/right only influences bunts. In this case you probably just swung late and over the pitch.

In the past I've had to break the news to several others they are not doing things right and that's something 'The Show' needs to improve on. At least in MVP you knew where you stood and understood exactly how batting works. I remember telling this one guy that he didn't understand how hot/cold zones worked because they are messed up in the game. He replied that for two years he was pitching to hot zones he thought were cold and vice versa! Funny thing is that he said his average ERA was less than 3.50, LOL.

I've played 'The Show' a ton and still am confused about certain things. For example the developer said the game is designed for "Pure Zone" hitting. Are they referring to fixed zones? If so how many zones are in a batters box? Let's say there are 9 zones and my PCI covers only half of the top left zone: do I still make contact if the ball is inside the zone but outside the PCI? Is there a contact penalty for only covering half the zone, or do I get full credit since the PCI is in the zone?

If not then I guess they are saying the PCI is actually a moving zone, which other games refer to as "cursor batting." If this is the case then it sure isn't accurate, because many times I'll hit a ball even though my PCI was way off the ball.

Also, if I use power swing and influence stick (up for flyball) what is going on under the hood? If my swing location and timing is perfect will I turn a home run into a long flyball? Or will I hit a home run even further?

I think you're wrong on the left/right influence as far as hits go. I think the GAME OPTIONS description is missing the l/r part for hitting....and confuses you by only listing the L/R for bunting(since nobody wants to bunt a ball in the air!).
In the CONTROLS section...it states the right stick with a L/R influence for 1B/3B plus you feel the controller acknowledge your command through a vibration.

I'll PM Russ or Kolbe to ask for clarification as I can't be absolutely sure due to the conflicting descriptions.

M.K.
Knight165

[swaldo]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

I think you're wrong on the left/right influence as far as hits go. I think the GAME OPTIONS description is missing the l/r part for hitting....and confuses you by only listing the L/R for bunting(since nobody wants to bunt a ball in the air!).
In the CONTROLS section...it states the right stick with a L/R influence for 1B/3B plus you feel the controller acknowledge your command through a vibration.

I'll PM Russ or Kolbe to ask for clarification as I can't be absolutely sure due to the conflicting descriptions.

M.K.
Knight165

That would be great if you can get official confirmation. Brian (the dev) said in the past it's a legacy feature which has been around since the series began. So I just checked the user manual for 'The Show 06' on PS2 and it says...

"Try to hit ball the ball to right side."
"Try to hit ball the ball to left side."

In 'The Show 09' the user manual and in-game controls says:

"Influence bunt to 1st"
"Influence bunt to 3rd"

And just for reference here is the settings description in 09 (and I think it reads the same in 10):

"Switch the ability to influence a ground ball, fly ball, or bunt direction ON of OFF. Swing influences can be accomplished with the RIGHT STICK pressed up or down for hits, and left or right for bunts, any time before your swing."

Also, just my experience - I do notice an effect with flyball/grounder influence and definately with bunts, but not regular swings with L/R influence. I can normally attribute the direction of the ball from my swing timing. And think about it...if you swing late what good is an influence going to do if you want to pull the ball? I guess it could speed up the swing animation but I haven't noticed anything like that. Likewise, if you swing early what good is the influence because the ball will already be pulled?

[cheechoo98]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

swaldo, let me clarify some things I should have been more specific.

Swing influence works in the 10 pitch BP session you get in RTTS mode. try it, It's pretty cool that you can do it there. Are you sure R-Stick influence doesn't work in regular Practice/Batting Practice? You'll know it does if you feel the vibration. I think it does, but I'll have to check - haven't tried it for a while...

You CAN swing influence R-Stick to the 5 o'clock position -(or the 2 o'clock, 10 and 7-8 o'clock positions). you feel the rumble of the controller when you do it. Therefore, for instance with a LH batter, I can R-stick to the 10 o'clock position if I want to hit a flyable to LF.
I can flick it to the 2 o'clock position to pull a flyball to RF. You can feel the rumble if you move the R-stick to straight right (3 o'clock), centre it, then move it again to diagonal right-up (2 o'clock).

Now, if it really is only the 4 straight left,right,up,down, the range on the R-Stick is wide enough that it registers when you move it to those intermediate/diagonal positions. So I 'could be' imagining a flyball to RF swing, but I don't think so.. I've hit too many HR's with this method of hitting.

On the example of the hit-n-run that went for a HR, I always move my L-stick to where the ball is pitched to try and square up the ball for perfect contact. In that specific instance, I moved it and it was probably under the ball a bit. I can't 100% confirm that, because I didn't check, but I've checked lots of hits after the fact and seen the results of where my PCI was in relation to the pitch and the results are 100% logical. For instance.. and I'm giving away a BIG tip here ( for online anyway ).. pitch a fastball in on the hands and a bit 'up' to a player online, (after setting them up low/low-away) - even up and in.. and many times you can induce an easy pop-up. This is because if the player fails to move their PCI up to hit the pitch, their PCI will be under the ball. easy out. 100% logical.

With the swing influence set to flyable, or pull-flyable, you can Jack a lowball for a HR for sure. i've had it done to me and I've done it myself.

Cheers.

[swaldo]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

swaldo, let me clarify some things I should have been more specific.

Swing influence works in the 10 pitch BP session you get in RTTS mode. try it, It's pretty cool that you can do it there. Are you sure R-Stick influence doesn't work in regular Practice/Batting Practice? You'll know it does if you feel the vibration. I think it does, but I'll have to check - haven't tried it for a while...

You CAN swing influence R-Stick to the 5 o'clock position -(or the 2 o'clock, 10 and 7-8 o'clock positions). you feel the rumble of the controller when you do it. Therefore, for instance with a LH batter, I can R-stick to the 10 o'clock position if I want to hit a flyable to LF.
I can flick it to the 2 o'clock position to pull a flyball to RF. You can feel the rumble if you move the R-stick to straight right (3 o'clock), centre it, then move it again to diagonal right-up (2 o'clock).

Thanks for clarifying, I didn't realize RTTS BP had influence on. It definately doesn't work in normal BP, there's no vibration confirmation and L/R influence on bunts doesn't work.

I still think L/R influence doesn't work on regular swings. If you tell a player to lift the ball in the air even if the pitch is low this computes. It wouldn't be easy but you can do it. However, if you tell a player to pull the ball even if your swing is late this doesn't compute. You say results are 100% logical but the only way this could work is if results are illogical.

If your swing is level then I can see where the CPU might give you the benefit of the doubt and send the ball to the left or right even though it should go straight. In any case hopefully the devs can clear things up.

[swaldo]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

FYI- that player fatigue system was implemented perfectly into MVP05. I used to love how my players got tired and more injury prone the more they played.

As far as the The Bigs 2 goes, it's just a fun hitting system, end of story. The game itself is fun, but it's no GOTY.

I still stand by a lot in the MVP article, especially about hitting. No matter how many disagreed, saying The Shows hitting mechanic was left stick influenced ala MVP is a flat out lie. Yes, I'm calling Brian out on that again.

You nailed it on the head though- batting in THe Show series is not constantly rewarding, resulting in an experience that isn't that fun.

I miss the charge mound too ;-)

The MVP and BIGS 2 hitting systems are definately fun, and sometimes I get so wrapped up in wanting a sim experience that I forget games should be fun. Perhaps the best way is to go the route of EA's NCAA baseball which offered three hitting systems (and all of them were good.) You had the 'Pure Swing System' ala MVP 05 and Bigs 2, the 'Load and Fire' and finally Zone Hitting.

The 'Pure Swing' was a 3 zone system (aim left, center or right) and the up/down "influence" aiming was basically a fancy word for power or contact swing. The beauty of it was that you could select power or contact on the fly because in most games you have to make this decision prior to the pitch. This is great when you're ahead in a count and want to swing away. But in a way it was bad because if you're trying to survive on an 0-2 count it was a bit easy to just flick the stick up if you saw a high pitch and smash it. Part of the problem though was dumb AI, I mean why are they throwing me a high curveball? I think the best way to use this system is to set ground rules for yourself. For example if you're behind in a count you'd have to decide if you want to use a power swing prior to a pitch, no read & react allowed.

Load and Fire Batting was the same 3-zone system as Pure Swing. You cocked the analog stick back, then up & to the left, center or right to aim. The difference was power and contact was now tied to buttons so overall you had to think more about your approach before each pitch. Also, they took it one step further by adding a protective, defensive swing option. Not many people are aware of this because it's not listed in the controls or in-game video tutorial but it's there. And I challenge anyone to find a review of the game which mentioned it.

L & F was my favorite batting system from EA because I liked being in charge of the batters animation (with a swing being a two step process.) Many times I'd rock back quickly expecting fastball but have to sit and wait for a changeup, then hit it weakly because I loaded so early. Other times I'd swing, change my mind but hit the ball anyway - all off balance and looking like a mental. But in general the game had a batting system for everyone: Pure Swing was the simplest and easy to pick-up, L & F was mid-range and required a bit more coordination and thought, and Zone Batting was for the hardcore player who wanted the most challenge.

NCAA 07 was really a great game which also added 'Rock & Fire' pitching; and there's a camp out there who's trying to get that system added in The Show. I also love the unpredictable flow of the game due to less refined college players.

Anyway, we'd all be setup great if baseball games had Timing Only, Pure Swing, Load and Fire, Zone PCI (ala The Show) and Cursor Batting (ala Pro Yakyuu Spirits.) Five difficulty levels with all of them resulting in realistic stats. Too much to ask?

[clownbaby]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

One change will put The Show on top of every other baseball game ever:

Reshape the PCI to match that of a REAL sweet spot on a baseball bat. This would make a more oblong shape with a sweet spot indicator placed where the true sweet spot of the bat is.

Hitting would be more difficult, but to counter this, SCEA would have to take a BIG LEAP and actually match up the timing/PCI with the resulting ball trajectory, which is not happening anytime soon from the looks of their previous games...

[MLB01]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

One change will put The Show on top of every other baseball game ever:

Reshape the PCI to match that of a REAL sweet spot on a baseball bat. This would make a more oblong shape with a sweet spot indicator placed where the true sweet spot of the bat is.

Hitting would be more difficult, but to counter this, SCEA would have to take a BIG LEAP and actually match up the timing/PCI with the resulting ball trajectory, which is not happening anytime soon from the looks of their previous games...

So basically, you want Pro Baseball Spirits hitting as an option in The Show. I do too.

[Moneybalzs]

I know im just dreaming here but i would LOVE for them to some how acquire the rights to use the FOX logos and overlays and get joe buck and tim mccarver in the game. if this could happen i'd never play another game again.

[Knight165]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

I know im just dreaming here but i would LOVE for them to some how acquire the rights to use the FOX logos and overlays and get joe buck and tim mccarver in the game. if this could happen i'd never play another game again.

If McCarver is ever in...I'm OUT.
Ooofff....enough to give me the chills!

M.K.
Knight165

[rsox]

I know im just dreaming here but i would LOVE for them to some how acquire the rights to use the FOX logos and overlays and get joe buck and tim mccarver in the game. if this could happen i'd never play another game again.

Worst idea {b]EVER!![/B]

I would keep Vasgersian and dump Campbell and Hudler or at the very least drop Hudler. Maybe replace him with Harold Reynolds.

[MLB01]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

Paul O'Neill drunk would be good, lol..

[Todem]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

The only thing missing presentation wise is a Baseball Tonight or MLB Channel weekly show with highlights from around the league, trade rumors, call-ups, lineup shake ups etc.

Gameplay wise the game is almost perfect. And I gotta say I love just pitching and batting and letting the AI field and run. It's a joy to play the game and rely on the player ratings. I still position guys in certain situations but after seeing the ball hit I get a thrill watching my team backing me up.

Now if they revamped the controls for baserunning (ala MVP 2005) I would run/steal for myself.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

So basically, you want Pro Baseball Spirits hitting as an option in The Show. I do too.

Same here. As far as I'm concerned, Pro Yakyu Spirits has the best batting system of any baseball video game, ever. In fact, in terms of gameplay, I think PYS is better than The Show in most aspects.

[moemoe24]

Thanks for clarifying, I didn't realize RTTS BP had influence on. It definately doesn't work in normal BP, there's no vibration confirmation and L/R influence on bunts doesn't work.

I still think L/R influence doesn't work on regular swings. If you tell a player to lift the ball in the air even if the pitch is low this computes. It wouldn't be easy but you can do it. However, if you tell a player to pull the ball even if your swing is late this doesn't compute. You say results are 100% logical but the only way this could work is if results are illogical.

If your swing is level then I can see where the CPU might give you the benefit of the doubt and send the ball to the left or right even though it should go straight. In any case hopefully the devs can clear things up.

This is exactly the reason swing influence should never be in a baseball sim. Like you said, You shouldn't be able to influence the ball one way or the other, timing of your swing should be the only influence you have. How can you swing early and still hit the ball to RF? That's not realistic. Nor is it realistic to make the ball be a grounder or fly ball. The balls path should only be determined by the pci.

[swaldo]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

This is exactly the reason swing influence should never be in a baseball sim. Like you said, You shouldn't be able to influence the ball one way or the other, timing of your swing should be the only influence you have. How can you swing early and still hit the ball to RF? That's not realistic. Nor is it realistic to make the ball be a grounder or fly ball. The balls path should only be determined by the pci.

I agree, but at least they penalize you for using it so it's a risk/reward decision you have to make. I wonder though how many people have been penalized for using the L/R influence even though it (possibly) has no effect on normal swings?