Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

[swaldo]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

This looks similiar to the article you wrote last year "Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better" where you were promptly slammed by several people including Brian SCEA (The Show's senior developer) regarding the batting system. So do you feel 'The Bigs 2' batting mechanic is better than MVP and if so how does it differ?

http://www.operationsports.com/feature.php?id=885

Also, in that article you stated "2009 is a great year to be a baseball gamer, but 2004 was even better." That's funny because you just said in your radio show that NFL2K5 is basically old news and how football gamers need to move on. Ask anyone around if Madden or 'The Show' has the better reputation and most will tell you 'The Show." And this year it didn't make the changes you wanted so I guess that means you're still gaming away with MVP? Or is 'The Bigs 2' so good that you finally sent it off into retirement?

I'm not trying to be a jackball, I'm just giving you a hard time. I do enjoy your contributions to this site but I just had to say it because I'm a big 2K5 football fan.

Anyway, I do agree with you in some areas. I also feel there is too much randomness to 'The Show's' hitting results. And I haven't had long term exposure to 'The Bigs 2' batting mechanic, but I listed below their batting instruction guide which was taken from the demo...

“You can aim your hits. If you time your swing well, you will hit the ball where you were aiming. The batter has a hitting advantage when the ball is hit in his wheelhouse.”

Really, is that it? I mean you can do the same thing with 'The Show's' left stick (you don't even need to use the right influence stick.) Just aim inside and swing early if you want to pull the ball. If you want to hit a sac flyball aim under the ball and use power swing, if you want to hit a grounder the opposite way just swing late and aim high. I think your main issue is that hitting doesn't consistently feel rewarding, and that's something I agree with and should be improved upon in The Show.

Here is my idea of the ideal hitting system:

- Cursor based batting: it used to be clunky so I think it kinda got a bad rep. However, that is no longer the case so hopefully you explored that angle before writing this article?

- Also, I agree "Hitters Eye" was brilliant in MVP. That should be an option in all baseball games.

- Quick swing feedback: I want to click a button after a pitch and see the motion of the pitch from start to finish. Kinda like going into instant replay but it does it for you automatically and fast. High Heat had a great one.

- Custom Camera angles. Anyone remember the baseball game where you could enter your own completely customized camera angle and adjust it in a tweak file? "Yea, my favorite is behind catcher, low angle at 2.6." It was Front Page Sports baseball or High Heat PC I think.

- What ever happened to moving batters around in the box? If someone is pitching me outside I want to move forward in the box and make that pitcher think. Remember ABC's "Monday Night Baseball" back in the 1970's? One time Steve Garvey stepped backward in the box when the pitcher was checking a runner and he didn't notice. He then threw an inside pitch and Garvey smashed it for a home run (because that "inside pitch" was now more like a middle pitch and right in his wheelhouse! Especially online, this could lead to some real cat & mouse strategy. There's alot of other uses for this, such as if you're facing a knuckleball pitcher there are two theories - step all the way up in the box to hit the ball before the big movement, or step all the way back towards the catcher so you can see the ball as long as possible.

-Another thing MVP did right is that they had a "Charge Mound" feature. I guess the MLB doesn't want that in games but hey it's baseball and would be great.

- There needs to be a better injury system in baseball games as well. At times hitters should get injured when they get plunked by a ball, and they could get injured in a brawl as well so there should always be a risk/reward thing with pitching inside or charging a mound. I want to see more "nagging" injuries as well, so if a report says a player is at 70% then his ratings will go down, while a player at 100% might play at a level above his top ratings. I've heard some MLB players say they don't work out towards the end of the year because they are too banged up and sore, so they save everything left for the games. Men love to make decisions so make us make decisions - do we use that slightly banged up player or rest him? The playoffs are coming up and we're 2 games on top with 10 games to go. I need him but is it worth the risk? If I rest him he could really be productive in the playoffs but we might lose the division without him. Choices, choices.

[noe1else]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't introducing a new hitting system pretty much entail a hole new game engine. If so I don't consider that even an option...

[Bumble14]

This looks similiar to the article you wrote last year "Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better" where you were promptly slammed by several people including Brian SCEA (The Show's senior developer) regarding the batting system. So do you feel 'The Bigs 2' batting mechanic is better than MVP and if so how does it differ?

http://www.operationsports.com/feature.php?id=885

Also, in that article you stated "2009 is a great year to be a baseball gamer, but 2004 was even better." That's funny because you just said in your radio show that NFL2K5 is basically old news and how football gamers need to move on. Ask anyone around if Madden or 'The Show' has the better reputation and most will tell you 'The Show." And this year it didn't make the changes you wanted so I guess that means you're still gaming away with MVP? Or is 'The Bigs 2' so good that you finally sent it off into retirement?

I'm not trying to be a jackball, I'm just giving you a hard time. I do enjoy your contributions to this site but I just had to say it because I'm a big 2K5 football fan.

Anyway, I do agree with you in some areas. I also feel there is too much randomness to 'The Show's' hitting results. And I haven't had long term exposure to 'The Bigs 2' batting mechanic, but I listed below their batting instruction guide which was taken from the demo...

“You can aim your hits. If you time your swing well, you will hit the ball where you were aiming. The batter has a hitting advantage when the ball is hit in his wheelhouse.”

Really, is that it? I mean you can do the same thing with 'The Show's' left stick (you don't even need to use the right influence stick.) Just aim inside and swing early if you want to pull the ball. If you want to hit a sac flyball aim under the ball and use power swing, if you want to hit a grounder the opposite way just swing late and aim high. I think your main issue is that hitting doesn't consistently feel rewarding, and that's something I agree with and should be improved upon in The Show.

Here is my idea of the ideal hitting system:

- Cursor based batting: it used to be clunky so I think it kinda got a bad rep. However, that is no longer the case so hopefully you explored that angle before writing this article?

- Also, I agree "Hitters Eye" was brilliant in MVP. That should be an option in all baseball games.

- Quick swing feedback: I want to click a button after a pitch and see the motion of the pitch from start to finish. Kinda like going into instant replay but it does it for you automatically and fast. High Heat had a great one.

- Custom Camera angles. Anyone remember the baseball game where you could enter your own completely customized camera angle and adjust it in a tweak file? "Yea, my favorite is behind catcher, low angle at 2.6." It was Front Page Sports baseball or High Heat PC I think.

- What ever happened to moving batters around in the box? If someone is pitching me outside I want to move forward in the box and make that pitcher think. Remember ABC's "Monday Night Baseball" back in the 1970's? One time Steve Garvey stepped backward in the box when the pitcher was checking a runner and he didn't notice. He then threw an inside pitch and Garvey smashed it for a home run (because that "inside pitch" was now more like a middle pitch and right in his wheelhouse! Especially online, this could lead to some real cat & mouse strategy. There's alot of other uses for this, such as if you're facing a knuckleball pitcher there are two theories - step all the way up in the box to hit the ball before the big movement, or step all the way back towards the catcher so you can see the ball as long as possible.

-Another thing MVP did right is that they had a "Charge Mound" feature. I guess the MLB doesn't want that in games but hey it's baseball and would be great.

- There needs to be a better injury system in baseball games as well. At times hitters should get injured when they get plunked by a ball, and they could get injured in a brawl as well so there should always be a risk/reward thing with pitching inside or charging a mound. I want to see more "nagging" injuries as well, so if a report says a player is at 70% then his ratings will go down, while a player at 100% might play at a level above his top ratings. I've heard some MLB players say they don't work out towards the end of the year because they are too banged up and sore, so they save everything left for the games. Men love to make decisions so make us make decisions - do we use that slightly banged up player or rest him? The playoffs are coming up and we're 2 games on top with 10 games to go. I need him but is it worth the risk? If I rest him he could really be productive in the playoffs but we might lose the division without him. Choices, choices.

FYI- that player fatigue system was implemented perfectly into MVP05. I used to love how my players got tired and more injury prone the more they played.

As far as the The Bigs 2 goes, it's just a fun hitting system, end of story. The game itself is fun, but it's no GOTY.

I still stand by a lot in the MVP article, especially about hitting. No matter how many disagreed, saying The Shows hitting mechanic was left stick influenced ala MVP is a flat out lie. Yes, I'm calling Brian out on that again.

You nailed it on the head though- batting in THe Show series is not constantly rewarding, resulting in an experience that isn't that fun.

I miss the charge mound too ;-)

[moemoe24]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

What I would like to see is an option where I can take any team in my season and put them in the playoffs. What I hate seeing is in my season the Cubs are going to make the playoffs but the bad part is I keep up with the day to day moves in real life. So the cubs are going to be in the playoffs with a bunch of minor leaguers who have been called up and no Derek Lee.

If I could fix this one thing I would be completely happy with the game

[Eski33]

The gameplay for The Show is excellent and every year SCEA has made enough minor tweaks to make the game a little more realistic. I agree with the batting sentiment to a point as long as it doesn't create unrealistic user stats.

The one area I would like to see The Show improved is in presentation. How about a weekly highlight show such as This Week in Baseball. Of course I am not expecting 20+ games of highlights but the game is on a Blu Ray disc, let's see some extras.

The commentary is solid but can use some updating. How about in-game highlights and scores from around the league?

Also, what about dynamic weather? Clouds to sun, etc..And rain wouldn't hurt.

All-in-all, The Show seems to get forgotten during awards time because of its release. I think The Show has been one of the more consistent franchises and represents the game it is intended to portray better than any game on the market....

[sarlndr]

The commentators need to go.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

FYI- that player fatigue system was implemented perfectly into MVP05. I used to love how my players got tired and more injury prone the more they played.

As far as the The Bigs 2 goes, it's just a fun hitting system, end of story. The game itself is fun, but it's no GOTY.

I still stand by a lot in the MVP article, especially about hitting. No matter how many disagreed, saying The Shows hitting mechanic was left stick influenced ala MVP is a flat out lie. Yes, I'm calling Brian out on that again.

You nailed it on the head though- batting in THe Show series is not constantly rewarding, resulting in an experience that isn't that fun.

I miss the charge mound too ;-)

Okay, "rewarding" is completely up to each user's interpretation. I disagree about the hitting system, but I can understand why some may feel it to be a little empty.

I've never played the MVP series, so maybe someone can catch me up on this, but how exactly is hitting in this year's game not "left stick influenced" , or "left stick influenced ala MVP?" I can't speak to the MVP part, but..."the left stick is essential for solid contact on higher difficulties." (sic, from the Show sliders menu)

How else can it be done?

Hitting is by no means perfect, but I'm having a blast right now. But, I'm a baseball stats guy, more than a "video game" guy. If I felt that my team averages would be spot on realistic without moving the stick (which I do move, btw), I'd be fine with that too. I just love trying to re-create real baseball, and The Show is WELL on it's way to giving that to us.

It's really a handful of tweaks and a few features away from perfection...

(I say that like it would be easy, but I'm sure a programmer would have to dedicate a lot of man hours to do some of the stuff that we want next year)

SCEA has given us so much of what we asked for this year. Let's not forget that. I wouldn't expect anything less of them next time around. I don't spend $60 easisly, but with The Show it's money well spent.

[Bumble14]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

Okay, "rewarding" is completely up to each user's interpretation. I disagree about the hitting system, but I can understand why some may feel it to be a little empty.

I've never played the MVP series, so maybe someone can catch me up on this, but how exactly is hitting in this year's game not "left stick influenced" , or "left stick influenced ala MVP?" I can't speak to the MVP part, but..."the left stick is essential for solid contact on higher difficulties." (sic, from the Show sliders menu)

How else can it be done?

Hitting is by no means perfect, but I'm having a blast right now. But, I'm a baseball stats guy, more than a "video game" guy. If I felt that my team averages would be spot on realistic without moving the stick (which I do move, btw), I'd be fine with that too. I just love trying to re-create real baseball, and The Show is WELL on it's way to giving that to us.

It's really a handful of tweaks and a few features away from perfection...

(I say that like it would be easy, but I'm sure a programmer would have to dedicate a lot of man hours to do some of the stuff that we want next year)

SCEA has given us so much of what we asked for this year. Let's not forget that. I wouldn't expect anything less of them next time around. I don't spend $60 easisly, but with The Show it's money well spent.

The main difference between MVP and The Show's hitting system is as follows:

In MVP, the left stick controlled your hit influence. This means that if you had your left stick pointed up, or up left, up right,left, right, down, etc, no matter where the pitch was thrown your player would try to take it that way-even if it was impossible. This lead to some really fun batting scenarios but most of all made you feel like you were directly responsible for crushing that fastball high and in out of the park.

The Show utilizes the PCI which simulates a batters contact point with the bat in the zone (PCI is essentially a cursor based batting system). The two systems are very similar, but they are different at the same time. The best example could be seen with a fastball down in the zone. In The Show, if I were holding up on the left stick while swinging, my contact point would be above the ball, inducing a grounder. In MVP, my player would attempt to get under the ball still and hit the ball in the air- it may be a super weak pop up or foul ball, but he would still try to get under it.

The amount of user control MVP gave while hitting was something I have not felt to this day in a baseball game. MVP hitting had some major issues (lefty power glitch), but the actual mechanics of the hit system made hitting really fun.

This is where the game differs, and where the disconnect for many who were used to the MVP system comes from.

I agree that we need a simulation type system that produces realistic averages, it's just that The Show's current system does not feel as organic as I think it could be.

MLB10 is an outstanding game, it just needs some refinements to become the greatest of all time.

[Eski33]

The main difference between MVP and The Show's hitting system is as follows:

In MVP, the left stick controlled your hit influence. This means that if you had your left stick pointed up, or up left, up right,left, right, down, etc, no matter where the pitch was thrown your player would try to take it that way-even if it was impossible. This lead to some really fun batting scenarios but most of all made you feel like you were directly responsible for crushing that fastball high and in out of the park.

The Show utilizes the PCI which simulates a batters contact point with the bat in the zone (PCI is essentially a cursor based batting system). The two systems are very similar, but they are different at the same time. The best example could be seen with a fastball down in the zone. In The Show, if I were holding up on the left stick while swinging, my contact point would be above the ball, inducing a grounder. In MVP, my player would attempt to get under the ball still and hit the ball in the air- it may be a super weak pop up or foul ball, but he would still try to get under it.

The amount of user control MVP gave while hitting was something I have not felt to this day in a baseball game. MVP hitting had some major issues (lefty power glitch), but the actual mechanics of the hit system made hitting really fun.

This is where the game differs, and where the disconnect for many who were used to the MVP system comes from.

I agree that we need a simulation type system that produces realistic averages, it's just that The Show's current system does not feel as organic as I think it could be.

MLB10 is an outstanding game, it just needs some refinements to become the greatest of all time.

@ Bumble14....The Show has hitting options that you can change where you can choose to have the direction of the left stick influence where you hit the ball (i.e. push up to hit a fly ball, etc.). I never choose this because I don't like the fact that you can "control" where and how you hit the ball.

I played ball at the college level and if you get a low fastball, you aren't going to swing up. And if you do, the result will rarely, if ever, be a hard hit ball or a home run.

Again, I am all for options and The Show has them.

Hopefully, EA will get the opportunity to make a baseball game again. I love The Show but two awesome baseball games are good for gamers.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

The main difference between MVP and The Show's hitting system is as follows:

In MVP, the left stick controlled your hit influence. This means that if you had your left stick pointed up, or up left, up right,left, right, down, etc, no matter where the pitch was thrown your player would try to take it that way-even if it was impossible. This lead to some really fun batting scenarios but most of all made you feel like you were directly responsible for crushing that fastball high and in out of the park.

The Show utilizes the PCI which simulates a batters contact point with the bat in the zone (PCI is essentially a cursor based batting system). The two systems are very similar, but they are different at the same time. The best example could be seen with a fastball down in the zone. In The Show, if I were holding up on the left stick while swinging, my contact point would be above the ball, inducing a grounder. In MVP, my player would attempt to get under the ball still and hit the ball in the air- it may be a super weak pop up or foul ball, but he would still try to get under it.

The amount of user control MVP gave while hitting was something I have not felt to this day in a baseball game. MVP hitting had some major issues (lefty power glitch), but the actual mechanics of the hit system made hitting really fun.

This is where the game differs, and where the disconnect for many who were used to the MVP system comes from.

I agree that we need a simulation type system that produces realistic averages, it's just that The Show's current system does not feel as organic as I think it could be.

MLB10 is an outstanding game, it just needs some refinements to become the greatest of all time.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

As for "the simulation type system" to create realistic averages...I wholeheartedly agree. I've always wanted to ask around about this, but feared responses about "scripted games...blah blah blah."

Great idea! Does MLB 10 The Show currently have something like this in place, or is it all user skill and ratings based?

[Bumble14]

Not true Eeski, there is no such option in MLB10. You can use rookie hitting that is timing based, but there is no option that does what you've described.

I too played high level baseball, I get what you are saying. With this being said, in real life you have total control of your hands,arms,torso,and positioning within the batting box- this is what I'm looking for in a new hitting engine.

[HustlinOwl]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

hands,arm, torso and position in box to simply hit the ball on a video game no thanks. Go Outside

[Knight165]

Re: Four Keys to Success for MLB '11: The Show

Not true Eeski, there is no such option in MLB10. You can use rookie hitting that is timing based, but there is no option that does what you've described.

I too played high level baseball, I get what you are saying. With this being said, in real life you have total control of your hands,arms,torso,and positioning within the batting box- this is what I'm looking for in a new hitting engine.

Either you're misunderstanding what Eski is saying.......I'm misunderstanding what you are saying above...... you don't know what's in the manual.....or...what's in the manual is not in the game......but it states that using the left analog stick will be your swing direction in the zone...and the right analog stick will (up) influence a fly ball.....(down) influence a ground ball......(right) influence a ball to 1B....(left) influence a ball to 3B.(in any mode)

Is any of this correct?

M.K.
Knight165

[JDK-OS]

1. Pitching
2. Stat/Att tracking and viewing
3. Fielding

These are the three main components I would liked to be re-worked for '11 in order. #2 and #3 are fairly self-explanatory. Mainly get rid of the glitches and bugs with fielding (slo-mo running, wrong animations, etc.) and clean up the mess that is the menu system of The Show.

I would like something a bit more engrossing on the pitching side. I'm actually theorizing on a pitching system at the moment and will post something in the forums when I finish.

[AndyP]

I want to see a chance to pitching. That interface is becoming a bit same-old-same-old and they need to offer an alternative - make it optional - but change it up a bit otherwise pitching is going to become very stale. I often have the CPU sim pitching innings for me these days for that very reason.