MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

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  • Knight165
    *ll St*r
    • Feb 2003
    • 24964

    #361
    Re: MLB 11 Trade Logic

    Originally posted by FreAk47
    I don't really have a problem with those moves. That logic would fit well for 90% of the teams in the league...it's just that its something the current Yankees management would likely never. Adding team specific front office mentalities seems like a complicated thing, so I am ok with a general logic that seems to fit most teams.
    I agree.
    While maybe not complicated(maybe it is....)....
    To lock a team into a SPECIFIC type of Front Office for an entire franchise simulation(one that could go indefinitely if you want in the game) would be much more unrealistic than any moves you might disagree with IMO.

    M.K.
    Knight165
    All gave some. Some gave all. 343

    Comment

    • theaub
      Stop! Homer Time!
      • Feb 2004
      • 9643

      #362
      Re: MLB 11 Trade Logic

      To answer some of the questions, in those trades, the Yankees acquired a ML SS (Castro) a ML 1B (Freeman) and a ML SP (Minor). So they did replace everyone they traded, and in fact did so in each trade.

      Also I'll sim another season right now and also go through FA
      Blue Jays, Blackhawks, Auburn

      Comment

      • Knight165
        *ll St*r
        • Feb 2003
        • 24964

        #363
        Re: MLB 11 Trade Logic

        Originally posted by theaub
        To answer some of the questions, in those trades, the Yankees acquired a ML SS (Castro) a ML 1B (Freeman) and a ML SP (Minor). So they did replace everyone they traded, and in fact did so in each trade.

        Also I'll sim another season right now and also go through FA
        That virtual Cashman is a genius!
        He got younger and cheaper....while in 4th place.
        Give him a raise!

        M.K.
        Knight165
        All gave some. Some gave all. 343

        Comment

        • econoodle
          MVP
          • Sep 2009
          • 4884

          #364
          Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

          Heres another trade that gives me pause.


          May:
          3 - NYY sends Chris Russo and Rafael Soriano to STL for a "C" 1B prospect
          1 month into the season Soriano gets moved?
          One of the top relievers in the game and somebody they just picked up for a mid-level 1st baseman? Thats all they can get for him? Plus, with Mo getting older, wonder why the game would send his possible replacement packing? Seeing as Soriano is probably listed as a closer or at least has the stamina of one.
          I don't know. Hard to justify this.
          Last edited by econoodle; 03-05-2011, 11:43 AM.

          Comment

          • theaub
            Stop! Homer Time!
            • Feb 2004
            • 9643

            #365
            Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

            Well the game doesn't know that they just got Soriano...and he's listed as a RP in the game (which is why I am a fan of turning all closers into RP's when the roster set comes out).

            But I agree they did get ripped on that one. There were 4/5 trades that were iffy, but its still worlds ahead of last year.

            (The new season is posted the impressions thread)
            Blue Jays, Blackhawks, Auburn

            Comment

            • econoodle
              MVP
              • Sep 2009
              • 4884

              #366
              Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

              Originally posted by theaub
              Well the game doesn't know that they just got Soriano...and he's listed as a RP in the game (which is why I am a fan of turning all closers into RP's when the roster set comes out).

              But I agree they did get ripped on that one. There were 4/5 trades that were iffy, but its still worlds ahead of last year.

              (The new season is posted the impressions thread)
              thats true.
              i had a discussion with someone bout David Lee getting traded right away in 2k11, all the AI saw was a HUGE 6 year contract they wanted to unload.
              I guess my concern is what they got in return.

              Also, how come the SCEA guys never get traded to teams.


              Good stuff AU!
              Last edited by econoodle; 03-05-2011, 12:04 PM.

              Comment

              • VanillaGorilla
                MVP
                • Jun 2003
                • 899

                #367
                Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

                I'll believe it when I see it.

                Comment

                • Legionnaire
                  Rookie
                  • Aug 2009
                  • 220

                  #368
                  Re: MLB 11 Trade Logic

                  Originally posted by Knight165
                  I agree.
                  While maybe not complicated(maybe it is....)....
                  To lock a team into a SPECIFIC type of Front Office for an entire franchise simulation(one that could go indefinitely if you want in the game) would be much more unrealistic than any moves you might disagree with IMO.

                  M.K.
                  Knight165
                  I think the game (any sports game, really) would benefit from a fluid system that determines each team's goals in franchise/dynasty mode. There should be a small handful on each end of the spectrum, teams systematically building their farm system while neglecting the MLB talent level and teams decimating the farm system as they sell out for anybody who will help them win immediately at the MLB level. And of course there'd be a bunch of teams tilted one way or the other somewhere in the middle as they waffle between winning and building.

                  What I mean is: CPU teams should be able to switch gears. Teams should be able to evaluate themselves (and the young talent on the farm due up in a few years), assess where they're at (compared to the league, or just compared to the division competition, figuring out whether success is within reach or not), and use that determination to basically decide what "mode" they should be in. Full-on rebuilding mode? Full-on win-now mode? Some mixture of the two for teams who are waffling somewhere in the middle?

                  Maybe also have teams/GMs have a number of different "plans" to choose from as far as what type of personnel they're looking for. Maybe they try emphasizing pitching over hitting, or speed over slugging, or on-base percentage over tools, or groundball pitchers over strikeout pitchers. I know some teams try to do a little of everything, but it would give CPU-controlled front offices more personality if some of them actually picked a direction and noticeably stuck to a personnel strategy.

                  It'd just be cool if teams were programmed to assess themselves in order to figure out their big-picture plans, and also programmed to try a particular plan for which type of players to acquire.

                  Then after a handful of years, they re-evaluate and decide whether it's time to shift gears or switch personnel philosophy.

                  It'd be pretty complicated, I assume, since it would probably require a major overhaul of how franchise mode is built. And the casual gamer might not realize how much is going on under the hood. So maybe you'd need to have a newspaper or "blog" feature where the player can read headlines or rumors from around the league. So when a team shifts gears from rebuilding into actually trying to win, or so when a team makes a philosophical shift in what kind of players they want, you can read a blurb reporting about it so you know what's going on with all the other teams.

                  Comment

                  • turpintine419
                    Rookie
                    • Jan 2004
                    • 148

                    #369
                    Re: MLB 11 Trade Logic

                    Originally posted by Legionnaire
                    I think the game (any sports game, really) would benefit from a fluid system that determines each team's goals in franchise/dynasty mode. There should be a small handful on each end of the spectrum, teams systematically building their farm system while neglecting the MLB talent level and teams decimating the farm system as they sell out for anybody who will help them win immediately at the MLB level. And of course there'd be a bunch of teams tilted one way or the other somewhere in the middle as they waffle between winning and building.

                    What I mean is: CPU teams should be able to switch gears. Teams should be able to evaluate themselves (and the young talent on the farm due up in a few years), assess where they're at (compared to the league, or just compared to the division competition, figuring out whether success is within reach or not), and use that determination to basically decide what "mode" they should be in. Full-on rebuilding mode? Full-on win-now mode? Some mixture of the two for teams who are waffling somewhere in the middle?

                    Maybe also have teams/GMs have a number of different "plans" to choose from as far as what type of personnel they're looking for. Maybe they try emphasizing pitching over hitting, or speed over slugging, or on-base percentage over tools, or groundball pitchers over strikeout pitchers. I know some teams try to do a little of everything, but it would give CPU-controlled front offices more personality if some of them actually picked a direction and noticeably stuck to a personnel strategy.

                    It'd just be cool if teams were programmed to assess themselves in order to figure out their big-picture plans, and also programmed to try a particular plan for which type of players to acquire.

                    Then after a handful of years, they re-evaluate and decide whether it's time to shift gears or switch personnel philosophy.

                    It'd be pretty complicated, I assume, since it would probably require a major overhaul of how franchise mode is built. And the casual gamer might not realize how much is going on under the hood. So maybe you'd need to have a newspaper or "blog" feature where the player can read headlines or rumors from around the league. So when a team shifts gears from rebuilding into actually trying to win, or so when a team makes a philosophical shift in what kind of players they want, you can read a blurb reporting about it so you know what's going on with all the other teams.
                    The Show 10 had something similier to this, although I think it could of gone more in depth. Teams became sellers or buyers on a short term basis. I believe teams only bought or sold based on how a team was doing that season. A team like the Cubs would bounce from buyers to sellers back to buyers from year to year. The result of this was they never really accumulated enough MLB Talent to contend, and sold their strong Farm System for mediocre MLB Talent.

                    If this were to be fixed for a more long term AI thinking, A team like The Cubs could become Pereniall WS Contenders yearly.
                    ....

                    Comment

                    • bigdaddykraven
                      Rookie
                      • Jun 2007
                      • 300

                      #370
                      Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

                      I think the best way to combat this would be having hire-able GMs for computer-controlled teams (in franchise obviously YOU would be the hired GM). Then what you do is give these coaches and GMs personalities.

                      What I mean is that GMs have a style aggressive guys who always go out and try to make the trade or deal that wins now. GMs who are money conscious and move veterans when their team isn't the top 1-2 teams in the division for younger talent and the vets they do get are typically the cheaper, run-down vets who need a chance.

                      Now tie that in with Head Coaches who have a personality. Maybe this coach likes power guys. Maybe the coach plays small-ball or prefers old vets over new blood or vise versa. Then these two personalities play together for your team and teams can start getting a type.

                      So mixing this may have a defensive speedster team full of young, cheap guys. Obviously if this team type doesn't win after a few years the owner will fire the GM and/or the head coach which changes the dynamic of the team in the following years.

                      Now one more thing you could add in to the player is possibly a "team" attribute or two. This is what I'm thinking: Favorite Team (each person has a childhood favorite team), loyalty, fan favorite.

                      Favorite Team just shows their favorite team growing up where they'd like to play I'd venture to guess. If they happen to be on that team they'd maybe take a discount or possibly choose that team in FA when offering over a team close in contract offers to them.

                      Loyalty is that player's general loyalty toward teams. Meaning does he like to move around going to the next winner and give up on his current team or not.

                      Finally Fan Favorite would be a 2 part ranking. Fan Favorite for that team like a 1-10 ranking and National Ranking 1-10. For the team, if you were a GM who traded a guy that is a 10 (Jeter on the Yankees) then your fan base may be hugely affected for a bit and attendance drops for a bit. The National ranking is maybe a gage of how quickly they get popular and the draw they bring to new teams and when on the road for other teams.

                      Anyway, throw in some friendships between players and players to managers etc and maybe you start getting a realistic trading/free agent system in my opinion. Maybe a bit much but IMO those are all things that go into signing and trading players that's missing from the Show.

                      Comment

                      • sink4ever
                        MVP
                        • Dec 2004
                        • 1153

                        #371
                        Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

                        Originally posted by bigdaddykraven
                        I think the best way to combat this would be having hire-able GMs for computer-controlled teams (in franchise obviously YOU would be the hired GM). Then what you do is give these coaches and GMs personalities.

                        What I mean is that GMs have a style aggressive guys who always go out and try to make the trade or deal that wins now. GMs who are money conscious and move veterans when their team isn't the top 1-2 teams in the division for younger talent and the vets they do get are typically the cheaper, run-down vets who need a chance.

                        Now tie that in with Head Coaches who have a personality. Maybe this coach likes power guys. Maybe the coach plays small-ball or prefers old vets over new blood or vise versa. Then these two personalities play together for your team and teams can start getting a type.

                        So mixing this may have a defensive speedster team full of young, cheap guys. Obviously if this team type doesn't win after a few years the owner will fire the GM and/or the head coach which changes the dynamic of the team in the following years.

                        Now one more thing you could add in to the player is possibly a "team" attribute or two. This is what I'm thinking: Favorite Team (each person has a childhood favorite team), loyalty, fan favorite.

                        Favorite Team just shows their favorite team growing up where they'd like to play I'd venture to guess. If they happen to be on that team they'd maybe take a discount or possibly choose that team in FA when offering over a team close in contract offers to them.

                        Loyalty is that player's general loyalty toward teams. Meaning does he like to move around going to the next winner and give up on his current team or not.

                        Finally Fan Favorite would be a 2 part ranking. Fan Favorite for that team like a 1-10 ranking and National Ranking 1-10. For the team, if you were a GM who traded a guy that is a 10 (Jeter on the Yankees) then your fan base may be hugely affected for a bit and attendance drops for a bit. The National ranking is maybe a gage of how quickly they get popular and the draw they bring to new teams and when on the road for other teams.

                        Anyway, throw in some friendships between players and players to managers etc and maybe you start getting a realistic trading/free agent system in my opinion. Maybe a bit much but IMO those are all things that go into signing and trading players that's missing from the Show.
                        Good stuff, I've been thinking for a while about what I was going to put for the '12 wishlist. One thing I was thinking of was Owner Goals, GM Strategies, and Manager Personalities. That could create a little more individuality between teams with their different goals and approaches. I can't begin to imagine how insane this would be to code, but I'd love to see the series head in this direction over the next few years.

                        Comment

                        • bigdaddykraven
                          Rookie
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 300

                          #372
                          Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

                          Originally posted by sink4ever
                          Good stuff, I've been thinking for a while about what I was going to put for the '12 wishlist. One thing I was thinking of was Owner Goals, GM Strategies, and Manager Personalities. That could create a little more individuality between teams with their different goals and approaches. I can't begin to imagine how insane this would be to code, but I'd love to see the series head in this direction over the next few years.
                          Feel free to use that in the wish list. I always felt like the players could use more personality and the coaches should be a bigger part of the game. Just make sure you mention a full record book too. I'm dying for that. All Star Baseball 05 gave it to me and I've wanted it back since

                          Comment

                          • sink4ever
                            MVP
                            • Dec 2004
                            • 1153

                            #373
                            Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

                            Originally posted by bigdaddykraven
                            Feel free to use that in the wish list. I always felt like the players could use more personality and the coaches should be a bigger part of the game. Just make sure you mention a full record book too. I'm dying for that. All Star Baseball 05 gave it to me and I've wanted it back since
                            Yeah, I've been trying to think of several examples for each.

                            Owner Goals:
                            Win now at any cost
                            Be a consistent contender
                            Compete on a budget
                            Build for the future
                            Turn a good profit

                            Each one would have different standards/expectations of success, some looking for wins in the near future and some looking for the system to be built up. There would also be different budgets for each, possibly changing over time based on a number of factors.

                            GM Strategies:
                            Speed & Defense
                            Strong Pitching
                            Powerful Lineup
                            On Base Skills
                            Build through Draft
                            Build through IFA
                            Acquire Talent through Trades & Free Agency
                            Value athletic up-the-middle types
                            Stock up on pitchers in the system

                            I could see each GM maybe having sliders for each category, more or less likely to use a particular strategy to build up their team. GM's would be hire-able by the CPU and possibly value players more or less based on park factors.

                            Manager Personality:
                            Lineup
                            - speed at top
                            - OBP at top
                            - change lineup based on individual matchups
                            - etc
                            Bullpen Usage
                            - more likely to use matchups (L vs. L and R vs. R)
                            - more likely to use stats and past history when bringing in relievers
                            Game Managing
                            - likelihood to call for steals
                            - likelihood to call for hit-and-runs
                            - small ball, bunting, moving runners over


                            Anyway, that's just a few thoughts I had. It'd be neat to see Organizational Philosophies sculpt a team and minor league system over several years, or to see different teams pursuing different free agents because they're a good fit.

                            Comment

                            • nomo17k
                              Permanently Banned
                              • Feb 2011
                              • 5735

                              #374
                              Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

                              I like watching these kinds of discussions develop in hope of some making into the future versions, but don't you think there should be dedicated threads for these types of things? Maybe franchise AI threads, etc. I doubt it would happen to this thread but the forum is moderated quite stringently and I hate to see substantive posts going down the drain just because the thread gets closed for nonrelated issues.
                              The Show CPU vs. CPU game stats: 2018,17,16,15,14,13,12,11

                              Comment

                              • theaub
                                Stop! Homer Time!
                                • Feb 2004
                                • 9643

                                #375
                                Re: MLB 11 The Show: Franchise Trade and Off Season Logic Has Been Massively Improved

                                Originally posted by sink4ever
                                Yeah, I've been trying to think of several examples for each.

                                Owner Goals:
                                Win now at any cost
                                Be a consistent contender
                                Compete on a budget
                                Build for the future
                                Turn a good profit

                                Each one would have different standards/expectations of success, some looking for wins in the near future and some looking for the system to be built up. There would also be different budgets for each, possibly changing over time based on a number of factors.

                                GM Strategies:
                                Speed & Defense
                                Strong Pitching
                                Powerful Lineup
                                On Base Skills
                                Build through Draft
                                Build through IFA
                                Acquire Talent through Trades & Free Agency
                                Value athletic up-the-middle types
                                Stock up on pitchers in the system

                                I could see each GM maybe having sliders for each category, more or less likely to use a particular strategy to build up their team. GM's would be hire-able by the CPU and possibly value players more or less based on park factors.

                                Manager Personality:
                                Lineup
                                - speed at top
                                - OBP at top
                                - change lineup based on individual matchups
                                - etc
                                Bullpen Usage
                                - more likely to use matchups (L vs. L and R vs. R)
                                - more likely to use stats and past history when bringing in relievers
                                Game Managing
                                - likelihood to call for steals
                                - likelihood to call for hit-and-runs
                                - small ball, bunting, moving runners over


                                Anyway, that's just a few thoughts I had. It'd be neat to see Organizational Philosophies sculpt a team and minor league system over several years, or to see different teams pursuing different free agents because they're a good fit.
                                This is brilliant.

                                For managers you could also have stuff like playing young players/veterans, usage of bench late in games etc. I like this a lot.
                                Blue Jays, Blackhawks, Auburn

                                Comment

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