OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

[metallidevils]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

The biggest problem with this series is that the devs take their time out to come here and listen to the small group of people that would rather spend $60 on a roster update and a few tweaks rather than something that actually makes the game look and feel a little different from year to year. This is happening with the NHL series as well.

So because YOU can't get the hang of analog controls, don't care about better lighting, player models and scroeboards, weather being added, and a completely revamped RTTS, they were on a tight budget and wasted their time???



Do you know why all those things are in the game this year? I'll tell you why; because last year, this board was filled with multiple threads about "where are the analog controls??? Button pressing is outdated!!" and "WTF, RTTS is exactly the same as it was last year!" and "I can't handle these player models and their t-Rex arms anymore! CMON SCEA!!!"

So, because they are the only dev team that TRULY takes the time to get community opinions and inprovements from THIS website, those are the areas where they spent the most of their time. And guess what? A lot of that pressure and feed back came from our Community Day guys.

So, my suggestion to you, a member who is new THIS MONTH; learn exactly how things work and why, before spouting off nonsensical guarantees that you know nothing about.

[Knight165]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

I don't actually see any of the "disappointed" commenters personalizing their comments or criticizing the statements made by those who are excited about the demo. They seem to be doing what everyone else should be: giving their personal impressions - which happen to be a lot less enthusiastic.

For some reason, a lot of Show cheerleaders here feel the need to criticize impressions that are negative, and that's where the exchanges you're talking about begin.

As you said, different people want different things. Different people expected different things of the game. So they have different impressions. That is literally the purpose of this thread, to get those impressions out there. Most if not all of the their criticisms have been valid.

It seems to me the thread could do without the "are you serious?!?! how can not love this game!?? what do you expect?!?!" defense posts.

I think you're confused.
You seem to be reading into posts a bit further than there actual content.
I don't think anyone has said...."what? you don't love this game?.....you're nuts"....when they refer to something that might not have been worked on to THEIR particular liking. I will comment negatively on posters who will insist that because their particular wish was not taken care of....either the game is "the same as 'XX" or "the devs wasted their time" ...or posts of similar nature.

...and I'm again going to call out the nonsense of this time you saying that anyone who likes the game and is happy with it's improvements are "cheerleaders" and those that are only going to complain about the game are what?...the "level headed truthers"? Yeah, okay.

What this thread can do without is B.S.(so can O.S. ....but it's starting to permeate again unfortunately)...but hey it's a message board, so I guess it's open season, so I can deal with that....(oh...not really, you don't want the cheerleaders commenting...I forgot)

M.K.
Knight165

[ped3328]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

No need to make the point again....I understood it perfectly the first time.
It's not the same...not even remotely the same.
There is simply no way to re-do everything year in and year out. You're focus on something that may or may not have been added to simply does not mean it's the same game as last year. I'm sorry. No way...no how.
The list of changes is quite extensive.
If you choose to look past them that's not a problem of the game.
I see that ....that is becoming the norm though. Unfortunate.

M.K.
Knight165

I'm very impressed with the demo. The animations, by and large, are better. The analog thing is most welcomed as it gives you a new way to play the game. Lighting, player models are way better. But I keep coming back to what Russell said on a different thread : the demo was built in December. Which means it was actually made BEFORE the community day event took place? I believe the CD was sometimes in January, right? It seems strange that the demo was built even before you guys had a chance to give SCEA devs your inputs. Wha's the point to invite you over if you ideas and suggestions will not reflect in the demo? Unless the final version is quite a bit different and does take into account whatever ideas and suggestions you brought over to improve the game. Just wanted to clarify.

[winonastate03]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Hey guys, I got a good night's sleep and am not in such a bitter or pessimistic mood this morning. As I could expect, I was ripped on pretty good and didn't expect anything less. Haha. I will buy and play this game and enjoy it. It will obvioulsy have things that will bug me, ie, sometimes slow fielding animations, outfield catch and throw animations, but it will still be a solid game.

I didn't mean to call out the Community Day guys as I am sure they give great insight to the game.

I just am hoping that animations will be a top priority next year instead of new features.

I am looking forward to the baseball season and this game. I am going to be more positive moving forward.

Oh yeah, great impressions from the writers in this article. Good to see fresh views and opinions.

[Pared]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

The biggest problem with this series is that the devs take their time out to come here and listen to the small group of people that would rather spend $60 on a roster update and a few tweaks rather than something that actually makes the game look and feel a little different from year to year. This is happening with the NHL series as well.

Quite honestly, you don't understand the sports video game business model then.

Why would you completely ignore your loyal customers and try and capture new ones, at the risk of alienating those that actually ENJOY the way the game is?

You made this same claim in the Madden forum a while back. I remember because it was off the mark then as well.

You simply don't ignore the individuals that buy your game every year - you cater to them and add items to capture the external market as well.

SCEA did that this year with the inclusion of Co-op, the PSMove, etc. You won't see this on the demo, but there's a lot in the game to make it more accessible to just the "hardcore" market.

They also spent a ridiculous amount of time catering to individual fans on their specific nitpicks, such as ad placement and wall colors in stadiums.

I hate the "me too" posts that follow someone's tirade. Mob mentality at its finest here. Instead of taking a step back and objectively viewing what has been done this year, they focus on that one thing that they wanted and whether it met their expectations.

People did this same thing in the NBA 2k11 forum despite that game being the best it has ever been.

Simply put... unbelievable.

[Pared]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

I'm very impressed with the demo. The animations, by and large, are better. The analog thing is most welcomed as it gives you a new way to play the game. Lighting, player models are way better. But I keep coming back to what Russell said on a different thread : the demo was built in December. Which means it was actually made BEFORE the community day event took place? I believe the CD was sometimes in January, right? It seems strange that the demo was built even before you guys had a chance to give SCEA devs your inputs. Wha's the point to invite you over if you ideas and suggestions will not reflect in the demo? Unless the final version is quite a bit different and does take into account whatever ideas and suggestions you brought over to improve the game. Just wanted to clarify.

They need time to create a solid demo, bug check it (again, just a freakin' demo), submit it to Sony for certification, and leave time for any possible error throughout the process.

Submitting a demo takes over a month to Xbox or Sony.

This is the same process it has always been.

If you would like to see a 100% true accurate representation of the demo, you'd see it after the game was released. And in this industry, that does not do anything for sales.

The demo released was to give you a glimpse on the major gameplay mechanics introduced this year. Look through the forum at all the discussion, people asking for tutorials, etc.

Can you honestly say it didn't do it's intention?

[gigadkc]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

The game has cursor hitting right now.

I really don't know what guys are referring to. True PCI is cursor hitting, in a sense. The only difference is you would prefer to move an imaginary bat to a spot and have it stay there... which isn't real baseball.

but that feature isn't in the demo, right? At least I didn't see it, there was only analog, timing and zone hitting. And zone was the way it was in the previous versions. If it already was in the demo, it's poorly executed (at least compared to PYS) and needs to be improved a lot imo.

And for all the individuals asking for cursor hitting, it's actually a very antiquated hitting mechanic, given the controls we have now compared to in the past.

some guys like the old stuff and I still prefer it more than anything. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's bad. I actually know a lot of guys that still love cursor batting. We have so many options in the game right now, why not add cursor batting?

[nemesis04]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Hey guys, I got a good night's sleep and am not in such a bitter or pessimistic mood this morning. As I could expect, I was ripped on pretty good and didn't expect anything less. Haha. I will buy and play this game and enjoy it. It will obvioulsy have things that will bug me, ie, sometimes slow fielding animations, outfield catch and throw animations, but it will still be a solid game.

I didn't mean to call out the Community Day guys as I am sure they give great insight to the game.

I just am hoping that animations will be a top priority next year instead of new features.

I am looking forward to the baseball season and this game. I am going to be more positive moving forward.

Oh yeah, great impressions from the writers in this article. Good to see fresh views and opinions.

Everyone needs to keep in mind we give them a ton of information (individually and from the community). They listen to our suggestions but ultimately the SCEA development team determines how they will prioritize what goes into the game. We push though, in the most loving gentle way of course, we push!

[Tommyklaid]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

I don't believe it.

...I think y'all just eat Doritos & sip on Pina Coladas during the time you're there.

[capa]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

I hate these kind of posts. Just because you dont like it then noone should get it.....
Options are always good and if they can continue to give us gamers options on how to play then fine. Maybe some people dont play fanchise and would rather SCEA concentrate on RTTS only and forget improving franchise.....

To be honest, there is a point of diminishing returns on continuous tweaks to antiquated or rarely used portions of the game. Time and effort better spent elsewhere. I see cursor hitting as one of those area. Hate it...always will. Others may love it and hope that it forever gets tweaked and becomes the default choice for hitting. That's their opinion. I am only expressing mine, as they did theirs.

By the way, I don't play extended franchise or RTTS....just single season.

[Two Seamer]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

...and I'm again going to call out the nonsense of this time you saying that anyone who likes the game and is happy with it's improvements are "cheerleaders" and those that are only going to complain about the game are what?...the "level headed truthers"? Yeah, okay.

What this thread can do without is B.S.(so can O.S. ....but it's starting to permeate again unfortunately)...but hey it's a message board, so I guess it's open season, so I can deal with that....(oh...not really, you don't want the cheerleaders commenting...I forgot)

This is pretty much exactly the kind of surreal one-sided totally out of place hostility I just commented on. What gives?

I didn't say anyone who likes the game is a cheerleader. And even if I had, what was it, 20 posts earlier that I myself said "I love and will buy this game"? So exactly how negatively could I be painting those people who like the game?

No, what I suggested was inappropriate was the set of people here who not respectful of the view that 2011 hasn't blown them away so far. A perfectly legitimate view (expressed by 3 of the 4 OS staffers in the OP, in fact), even if it's based on just a handful of things on their wishlist that didn't show up.

Do you see any of them quoting people who say they love the game and saying "what the heck are you talking about? how can you be happy with these game updates?!?! that change is meaningless!" I don't think you do.

You do see several people criticizing the expression of view that not enough has changed. They aren't just challenging factual claims about what has changed, they are deriding the opinion not enough has changed. And not very respectfully. I just don't see the point. At all. And I'm confident that if it were the other way around, the posts would probably be removed.

[greenieblue]

To be fair, I was disappointed with the NBA 2K11 demo. And, we all know how that turned out.

That said, it has long been the case that The Show series has taken the smallest steps forward from year to year out of all the major sports franchises available. The argument that a one year cycle is not enough time doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Look at Madden 09 to Madden 10, NCAA 10 to NCAA 11 and, of course, NBA 2K10 to NBA 2K11; all huge jumps in one year.

The reality is that The Show was built on half a foundation and they would need to tear down the whole house to implement things that should have been elementary. The other reality is that there are people who work for SCEA who visit these boards and people who all but (and usually want to) work for SCEA who visit these boards and a small percentage of dead behind the eyes zombie fans. All three will fight you to the death to protect the game (the first being understandable, since it's their job). I give credit to the three from the article who spoke their truth. It's refreshing to see that viewpoint on OS.

[ped3328]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

They need time to create a solid demo, bug check it (again, just a freakin' demo), submit it to Sony for certification, and leave time for any possible error throughout the process.

Submitting a demo takes over a month to Xbox or Sony.

This is the same process it has always been.

If you would like to see a 100% true accurate representation of the demo, you'd see it after the game was released. And in this industry, that does not do anything for sales.

The demo released was to give you a glimpse on the major gameplay mechanics introduced this year. Look through the forum at all the discussion, people asking for tutorials, etc.

Can you honestly say it didn't do it's intention?

I never mentionned nor do I believe a demo does not serve a purpose. And Russell is right on when he stated that the main reason to put out a demo (at least for this particular version) was for us gamers to familiarize ourselves with the analog approach. Like I said (again that overused expression!), I'm just surprised they would put out a demo without you guys having a chance to submit your inputs that would reflect in the demo. Granted it takes time to develop a demo, certify it and then put it out. Perhaps the CD should take place earlier, so that when it does come out, some of your suggestions are included, which in turn would make it an even better demo. Hopefully, some of your precious suggestions and ideas will be implemented in the final version. After all, they didn't invite you over just to sit under palm trees and drink pina coladas

[Pared]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

Hopefully, some of your precious suggestions and ideas will be implemented in the final version.

They were. Again as I've mentioned in other threads previously this is just something you'll never see.

There's no way that you can understand what goes on "behind the curtain." I personally try my best to give you some insight on the changes being made there, as do the other invites. But ultimately, there is so much changed and suggested to keep track of it all would be a waste of everyone's time.

The final game being as good as it can be is always the goal. It's part of the reason I try to avoid posting while at CD, but then even that is taking the wrong way when people are foaming at the mouth for information.

You have to take the good with the bad. You take them both and then you have...

+2 'net points for those that get that corny joke.

[tvman]

Re: OS Staff Roundtable - MLB '11: The Show Demo Impressions

<table style="margin-top: 5px; margin-bottom: 5px; width: 90%;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="75"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="50"> <tbody><tr> <td width="37"> </td> <td style="background-image: url(&quot;/vBulletin/images/quotes/07.gif&quot; width: 1px; height: 24px; background-position: center center;" valign="middle" width="100%"> Quote:</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td align="left">
</td> <td align="left"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td style="background-image: url(&quot;/vBulletin/images/quotes/09.gif&quot; width: 100%; height: 24px;" align="left" valign="middle" width="100%" nowrap="nowrap"> Originally Posted by Pared</td> <td> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td align="right" width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="100%"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="background-image: url(&quot;/vBulletin/images/quotes/11.gif&quot; width: 100%; height: 24px;" width="100%">
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</td> <td style="background-image: url(&quot;/vBulletin/images/quotes/00.gif&quot; width: 100%; height: 1px;" width="100%"> And for all the individuals asking for cursor hitting, it's actually a very antiquated hitting mechanic, given the controls we have now compared to in the past.
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Play PYS and you'll soon see that their cursor hitting system is far and away the best hitting system out there.

Sticks are different and new but that doesn't make them better.