The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

[stealyerface]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

The year was 1988 and I was playing baseball for a DIII college in Upstate NY, and we were down in Daytona Beach for Spring Training.

We had signed up to play some tournaments, and some in-division games, and while we were down there, we had ten games scheduled for our seven days we were there, with some double-headers and some morning games, which gave us the rest of the day off. (Later I would learn that morning games were instituted to attempt to keep the late-night activities to a minimum, as the coaches figured if we have to play at 8am we might view our curfew as an actual curfew.. )

We had an afternoon off, and our coach came to tell us that we had scheduled a scrimmage game with another team that was off, and that it might be a good idea to get our A-game together, as it was going to be a bit stiffer competition than we had been playing.

Uh, yeah. That stiffer competition turned out to be the University of Hartford, and they had a kid on their team that was probably going to make it to the big leagues.

I was a 6'7" righthander, weighing in at 225 pounds at the time, and could throw the ball pretty well, and had just, over the past summer, learned a split-fingered fastball, and had been using it to moderate success, so the idea of throwing against a DI team, was pretty exciting.

For those of you who have followed Jeff Bagwell's career, or have been fans, he hit the ball very hard. And very far. Now, just for a moment, imagine that swing,from the toes to the nose, violent hack, and now add an aluminum bat to the mix. Yeah, some of you might not realize that all those guys who hit the ball 450 feet with a wooden bat hit it a hell of a lot harder with aluminum..

So Bagwell comes to the plate and I start with a curveball for a strike and then he fouls off a fastball, and I have him down 0-2. Feeling pretty good about myself, I decide that now would be a good idea to work on my new pitch, and unleash Mr. Splitty on Pro prospect, and soon (the next year) to be an MLB stud, Jeff Bagwell.

Mr. Splitty did not find the catcher's mitt in a puff of dust, and a thrilling strikeout of a DI prospect. No, Mr. Splitty got hit so far that I am not sure measuring methods in 1988 could have accurately calculated the distance. My best guess, based on how long it took to walk from the parking lot where the buses parked to the field, would probably be 520 feet, and that might be light.

Our left fielder said he actually heard the ball as it passed over his head, and when you hear people talk about balls that are still on an upward trajectory when the ball crosses over the fence might want to reference this particular event. It was 335' down the line and 400' at straight away center and this ball was pretty much dissecting the two at left center, and bounced in the parking lot, after it cleared a drainage canal that ran along the edge of the parking lot.

We ended up getting abused pretty badly, and we mustered only a few hits, but the talk of the bus ride back home after the week, was that ball, and in retrospect, and should have tracked the ball down and had him sign it on the flat spot, but back then, who would have known what kind of career he was heading for..

~syf

[nomo17k]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

Wow. Bagwell was really a great hitter, but I remember him more for his exceptional discipline for some reason. Thanks for sharing the story.

[stealyerface]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

The best part of the story is actually the scoresheet, which I have somewhere in my house, and if I can find it, I will try and post a picture...

For those of you who have seen a scoresheet for baseball, and know how to score a baseball game with such, when you are keeping track of pitches/pitch counts, and where hits are distributed (spray chart) you typically put a red dot on the picture of the diamond representation in the linescore, so you can quickly see where the hits/outs/ flyballs landed and this gives you some good insight as to where to position for certain hitters and their trends.

Our scorekeeper taped a blank sheet of paper to the back of the scoresheet, and taped it so that when looking at the scorebook, the taped paper was aligned vertically in an 8x12 position to the top of the scorebook. He put an asterisk next to the filled in diamond showing the HR and recorded run, and then put a red dot on the very top of that blank sheet of paper with an asterisk next to it.

He thought it was pretty funny.

~syf

[thaSLAB]

Heroes,

Which Pitching Mechanic is your weapon of choice?

I am an Analog guy, and can help you with the actual execution of the pitches, but the pitch selection is where you really have to use the visual clues, and the feedback the game gives you, which I feel gives you some clues, and some logic-based formulas to utilize.

Here are a couple things to try tonight, and I will be looking forward to seeing how, and if, it helped you win some more games.

- Nibbling at the corners is great, but even a .210 hitter will start to recognize that you start off every hitter with something straight on the outside edge. Learn to mix up that first pitch selection, and do not get lulled into the same offering for the first pitch of the at bat. Don't think for one second that Cyber Dustin Pedroia does not walk back to the dugout and tell the next guy up you are throwing first pitch fastballs. *Whispers* I think they know....

Change speeds. Not just between pitch types, but between pitches themselves. If you are using analog, throw a fastball with fast motion on the stick at 93mph, then go easy with one at 89mph. Changing speeds on the same pitch works.

Use the feedback from the cpu hitters. If you throw a fastball at Josh Hamilton, who yanks the 95mph fastball thirty rows foul becuase he was so far out in front of it, well guess who is getting a change up the next pitch? If Granderson flails at a Curveball, and throws his bat into the stands because he is so off balance, guess who just put that in the memory bank for that 1-2 out pitch I need to get him out in a tough spot?

Work it in, then out, then a little farther out, then in under the hands... change the plane. Change the eye level. Stuff that works in real life will work in this game....

Throw a ball on purpose. Not one that is four feet outside, but maybe a foot outside. If you see the batter flinch, or make a quick 1/4 swing at the ball, that is a clue the game has given you, that the batter was looking to protect the plate, but is not opposed to expanding the zone. Use this information to set him up. He flinched at the 1-2 slider, so go up and in with the hard stuff, then come right back with the slider if he didn't bite on the straight pitch. I am under the impression that the animations in the game, with regards to check swings, half-swings, fouls tips, "swinging a garden hose up there" are not just random. I see them as a clue you need to decipher, and when I pitched in real life, how a guy reacted to every pitch was a piece of the puzzle for the rest of the at bat. This game does not have the human side of cat/mouse game down pat, but it is close. I could tell from my first pitch to a guy if he was afraid of being hit, or if he bailed out of the curveballs too early, by his front shoulder flinching. That set the stage for the rest of the game, and you can kind of do the same thing here, you just need to see the clues.

So now you are moving the pitches in and out, changing speeds, and mixing up the planes, and doing a nice job of keeping the hitters off balance... Now how do you drop the hammer on the other team?

Make ALL of your warm up pitches count. That means make them all strikes. Do NOT worry about location of the warm ups. You get NOTHING and like it for making a corner dotting fitch-ridden sinkerball land an inch outside the strike zone. Save it for the hitter, and make every pitch you warm up with hit the strikezone. The confidence goes up with each pitch, and you will see the batters miss more pitches, and you'll have better luck than if you throw balls or, god forbid, Back-Button through the warmups and not throw them. Throw them all, and make them strikes. This goes for the starter too.

If a pitch is not working, and the confidence meter is gone... don't throw it. Just don't. Some days I had a splitter that was to die for, and other days I could not make it move. Atmospheric phenomena, temperature, humidity, finger pain, hangover... whatever it was, there were days that pitch needed to go in the holster and not come out. And just when you thought it ought to, some guy hit it 500 feet. Some day I will tell you my Jeff Bagwell story. That guy hit balls very far.

So, in summation, pitch smart, pitch with confidence, and win some games!!

~syf

SYF, that is so critical there... probably the easiest means of getting the CPU to swing and miss.

You play the same way as I do, except I use pulse. But all the OSDs are off and I pay close attention to the swing outcomes and batter tendencies. Hey, the CPU does it to us right? You're absolutely right about the commentary cues too. If I need a refresher, I just hit select and any info I may need, with the exception of pitch movement, is there.

Not being afraid to throw balls is key too. Even the most pinpoint pitchers walk guys throughout the year. And you can tell the difference between guys without the use of an OSD, over a couple of starts.

I've pretty much reached the point of total memorization of Verlander's arsenal. To the tune of 2 straight 13K outings. I say that, while knowing the season started off rough for him, going 1-2 with a 3+ ERA. He's now 4-2 with a 2.3 ERA.


-- Sent from the Future...

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

SYF, that is so critical there... probably the easiest means of getting the CPU to swing and miss.

You play the same way as I do, except I use pulse. But all the OSDs are off and I pay close attention to the swing outcomes and batter tendencies. Hey, the CPU does it to us right? You're absolutely right about the commentary cues too. If I need a refresher, I just hit select and any info I may need, with the exception of pitch movement, is there.

Not being afraid to throw balls is key too. Even the most pinpoint pitchers walk guys throughout the year. And you can tell the difference between guys without the use of an OSD, over a couple of starts.

I've pretty much reached the point of total memorization of Verlander's arsenal. To the tune of 2 straight 13K outings. I say that, while knowing the season started off rough for him, going 1-2 with a 3+ ERA. He's now 4-2 with a 2.3 ERA.


-- Sent from the Future...

Could you elaborate on the bolded above? What do you mean by memorization? Do you mean you now know what approaches work with him and what doesn't ?

I could use a 13 K outing, so the more detail the better.

You are spot on with the bolded part of Stealyerface's post. Watching the CPU's tendencies can lead to some pretty special pitching outings.

[stealyerface]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

I think what he is referring to is that we both play with the pitching OSD's off, so there is no indicator of the pitch selection thingy for either the CPU or the human pitcher. Which means you have to memorize what each pitcher's repertoire is, and keep track of how you are doing with each pitch within the game.

So, instead of seeing a nice filled-up indicator bar for pitch confidence, you need to remember that you have been doing a good job spotting that curveball, have a few strikeouts on that pitch, and it seems to be going where you want it to with regularity.

This is a bit tougher with the analog pitching, as not only do you have to worry about the confidence, the rumble of the aiming indicator (my ball marker is off as well) but the execution within the confines of the R-stick.

*** I LOVE pulse pitching, but I am secretly hoping for an upgraded version next year, that allows for pitch effort in the pulse mechanic. This would be done by pressing and holding the X button to stop the pulse at the smallest circle (for best accuracy) and then keeping it pressed down while a circle blooms outward from that circle. When that circle gets to the outside edge of it's circumference, that would be the Max-Effort line and you would release the button. So, for a get-me-over fast ball, you would press, and quickly release the button, thereby exerting the least amount of effort, using less stamina and decreasing the possibility of an errant pitch. Conversely, pressing and holding on a curveball for the maximum break, would require not only the initial press for the accuracy, but the aiming must be taken into account when really snapping that pitch off. The best part is that it becomes very intuitive, as if you miss the accuracy timing, and have a large circle of influence, your chances of being able to hit the max effort ring becomes tougher as well. Making the first press at the smallest diameter, gives you a better chance of a release for max effort... ***

Called "Total Control Pulse Pitching" this option would be a welcome addition, and would only cost the developers an advanced, free copy of the game to its originator, Stealyerface, for such an awesome idea.

So back to topic, the way we know if the pitches are working or not are results-based only. No meter, no hints, no indicator.... Only the fact that you know Pitcher XXXX has a filthy slider working that day, as evident by the number of swings and misses, and by his command.

Try a game with the "Clean Screen" and turn off all the indicators. Even turn off the ball marker for Pulse, and turn off the pitching OSD thingy. The game becomes even more harrowing, and exciting when you have to rely on your own memory, and your own recall to see what pitch needs to be thrown when, and where to make that pitch count.

One of my favorite additions (which is really a subtraction) since the game's inception is the ability to have nothing cluttering the screen, and having to really pay attention to what you are doing on the mound...

~syf

[thaSLAB]

Could you elaborate on the bolded above? What do you mean by memorization? Do you mean you now know what approaches work with him and what doesn't ?

I could use a 13 K outing, so the more detail the better.

You are spot on with the bolded part of Stealyerface's post. Watching the CPU's tendencies can lead to some pretty special pitching outings.

Yeah, no problem... I mean memorizing his 5-pitch repertoire (button, speed), and each pitch's break direction and amount of movement. As well as where his pitches tend to miss with perfect/near perfect release. For instance, his change-up moves down and in to righties, but if his confidence is low(er) it will tend to miss lower in the zone than aimed, with very little lateral drift. Therefore, I'll aim it higher in these situations if I'm trying to throw a strike with it.

Again, this is with all visual aids off, as to force a realistic approach, and adapting to game situations.

So I guess, yes to your second question, but the approach is more dynamic from game to game, or team to team. I should've noted, the last 13K outing was against Houston (I knew going in that Chris Carter led the league in K's and I commenced to get him 3 more times), but the first was against the Braves, who are pretty solid offensively.


-- Sent from the Future...

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

So I assume you both must call your own games too?

Wow. Considering 9 K's is my highest (for an individual) in both my Pulse and Classic Franchises, I think I'll just continue to follow the great advice in this thread but leave my safety net on screen.

As to Pulse going forward, I'm secretly hoping they don't force us to have to determine our own effort next year. I hope, if they do implement it, that it's an option only and not mandatory.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

Yeah, no problem... I mean memorizing his 5-pitch repertoire (button, speed), and each pitch's break direction and amount of movement. As well as where his pitches tend to miss with perfect/near perfect release. For instance, his change-up moves down and in to righties, but if his confidence is low(er) it will tend to miss lower in the zone than aimed, with very little lateral drift. Therefore, I'll aim it higher in these situations if I'm trying to throw a strike with it.

Again, this is with all visual aids off, as to force a realistic approach, and adapting to game situations.

So I guess, yes to your second question, but the approach is more dynamic from game to game, or team to team. I should've noted, the last 13K outing was against Houston (I knew going in that Chris Carter led the league in K's and I commenced to get him 3 more times), but the first was against the Braves, who are pretty solid offensively.


-- Sent from the Future...

I am going to make using this strategy priority number one from now on. Learning where perfect/near perfect release pitches miss when confidence is lower is something I do currently do, but I don't focus on it enough to implement these notes in every situation it's needed.

[DJ]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

SYF, where did you go to school? I grew up in the Utica area, so I'm curious where you played ball.

You and Slab have me ready to ditch the API and call my own games. Too many times the catcher will repeatedly call for low-confidence pitches in tight situations.

[stealyerface]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

I call my own games yes, but only because I think that I have a better idea of what pitches need to be called when, just based on my personal experience... Not that I am smarter than Cyber-Saltalamacchia, but because I know what I would have thrown in the situation. I also love the fact that if I am playing a batter for an extreme pull, trying to locate a fastball on the outside corner, which he could be late on, and lace down the now-vacant line for a double, that I would never choose that pitch in real life, so I pitch to my defense as well as the batter and situation. Cyber catchers have not been made that smart yet...

Yes, Total Control Pulse Pitching would be an option that one could turn on or keep off.

Slab made a GREAT point, in that you need to, in warm ups, understand what happens to the 2-seamer if you are perfect with the release, a little less than perfect, or awful. When I use Analog Pitching, I will sometimes miss the release spot on purpose, because I know what the ball does on a late/early release. This makes for some very exciting pitches, when you bring a 2-seamer back across the outside black, and do so with a late release, thereby applying more movement on the ball, based on that pitcher's response to a mis-release. Doing it on purpose, for the strikeout, is a fist-pump type of result!!

This becomes even more exciting/nerve wracking, when it comes time for relievers. I have my accuracy and consistency at 0 for both settings. So, there are times where Andrew Bailey is just NOT coming into the game if his pre-game health and stamina are low from a previous outing... But on the days his Curveball is working, he is unhittable. That 12-6 break is fiiiiilthy, but unmanageable if he is not ready to throw it.

~syf

[stealyerface]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

SYF, where did you go to school? I grew up in the Utica area, so I'm curious where you played ball.

You and Slab have me ready to ditch the API and call my own games. Too many times the catcher will repeatedly call for low-confidence pitches in tight situations.

Fredonia State University. About 60 miles West of Buffalo, almost to Erie, PA.

~syf

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

SYF and Slab...You guys!

So last night in my Yankees Pulse-chise, I strictly followed one key part of your advice. I tracked the CPU's (ARI) swing tendencies for two entire games and used them to select my own pitching approach.

So let's say Jason Kubel was way out in front yof my fastball. From that point forward, I was setting him up to drop the hammer. And inversely, if say Martin Prado was showing good timing on my offspeed, from that point on I was setting him up with my heat.

Doing this, I accomplished two personal Franchise bests (I have topped these in exhibition and Playoff play, however). The lines:

1. Ivan Nova 7 IP, 0 R, 3 H, 1 BB, 8 K (had to come out after 98 pitches due to injury). So combined with my bullpen, I allowed 1 run on 3 hits (the 3 total hits being a Franchise record).

2. CC Sabathia 7 IP, 3 R, 6 H, 3 BB, 10 K (the 10 K being my highest in Franchise play with a starter).

The excellent thing about this strategy was how these tendencies stuck throughout the game. Again, let's say Jason Kubel wildly flailed and was early on a changeup in his first at bat. For the rest of the game, to my suprise, he was consistently early on ALL of my offspeed pitches. ALL GAME LONG. The same goes for guys that were unable to catch up with my heat. These hitters never really adjusted from their approach.

This really floored me.

I was able to consistently, throughout the entire game, come up with gameplans on how to approach each individual hitter. I did this base on what they were showing me with their swings and takes.

In my time with this year's game, this is easily the most rewarding approach I've taken to date. What incredibly valuable advice SYF and Slab!

Who knows? If this keeps up, maybe I'll play with a clean screen too someday!

Anyway, thanks again guys. Your posts should be stickied.

[PadresFan]

I have been following this thread very closely. I finally put all these tips into motion and was amazed...

Had 13 K's with Cashner including strikeouts by my pen. Just had solid at-bats and learned from mistake pitches and locations.

And this game has become even more fun... What I learned from you guys have really taught me about pitching and changed the way I play this game...

Thanks to all who have contributed...

Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk 2

[3fiddy]

Re: The Difference Between Wins & Losses (Tips)

Slab made a GREAT point, in that you need to, in warm ups, understand what happens to the 2-seamer if you are perfect with the release, a little less than perfect, or awful. When I use Analog Pitching, I will sometimes miss the release spot on purpose, because I know what the ball does on a late/early release. This makes for some very exciting pitches, when you bring a 2-seamer back across the outside black, and do so with a late release, thereby applying more movement on the ball, based on that pitcher's response to a mis-release. Doing it on purpose, for the strikeout, is a fist-pump type of result!!

Yessir. Or a slider sliding a bit farther.

I mainly use this theory for a top of the zone 4 seam. Put the marker as low as you want the pitch to go and as long as you release early to perfect it will not go below that