The CPU decides the game....

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  • moemoe24
    Rookie
    • Oct 2007
    • 1996

    #76
    Re: The CPU decides the game....

    Originally posted by aktransplant007
    There is something amiss regarding the pitcher/batter interface and this does bring up an explanation as to why some believe there is some 'comeback code' or the AI decides the game. I do not believe there was an intentional code to control who wins/loses games, but do see the hitter/pitcher interface is lacking in true physics at times; therefore frustrates some and they have no other justification as to why certain results happen. Also, there's no explanation that I am aware of that states where contact is made with the bat/ball (i.e., is it the front, back or middle of the plate..or somewhere else?!).

    Games made in the late 90s, such as High Heat and (especially) VR baseball and others seemed to have a much more realistic feel to hitting/pitching interface and the physics involved (if you swung late or early, the ball would hit it the correct direction). I'm not sure why this cannot be reproduced on advanced systems and maybe it has to do with detailed graphics and maybe the way the game is made would not have realistic results if actual physics are implemented in the coding. Anything is really just speculation unless the programmers would state directly. I just know from plenty of experience, true physics are not happening at all times in this interface; from the type of pitch, location, swing, etc.

    Zone hitting - this does not exist as it is described or how people state it should work; Timing does have some impact regarding contact with ball. Many times have I played with contact made on the ball with the PCI not even close to touching the ball path or location and same with the AI. The most obvious was recently. Righty P (me) vs Righty Hitter (AI); low fastball (~9th pitch in the AB) that was ~half in/out the low right corner of the plate (Catchers view) and the PCI was small (so assume Power swing by AI) that appeared mostly outside the top left corner (inside). The AI fouled the pitch off and should not have even been able to make any contact on the ball. This explains or shows what people have complained of where no matter what I/they did pitching, the AI was going to put the ball in play. After ~12 pitches, a single through the IF and runner on 2nd scored.

    Many other times the AI or myself have made some contact and the ball that was clearly outside the PCI; for balls hit in play, fouls, etc. An explanation as to where contact is made regarding the plate would help, but still issues regarding contact made when it should not have been, especially with Zone hitting working as described/understood as well as the result of where the ball goes after contact.

    An obvious example of the hitting/Pitching physics is R vs R and the ball is on the outside of the plate and even outside the Zone at times and a 'late' (or 'very late') swing results in a pulled HR over LF fence near the foul pole or hitting it, just foul or anything on the left side of the field near the foul line. Things like this have happened a decent amount of times. Also, I do not always feel I can swing late or early on certain pitches and put the ball in play to advance runners, etc. by pulling the ball or hitting to opposite field. A true result just does not happen at times in this game. A good amount of the time it does have a true feel to the hitting/pitching interface, but other times, the result does not make sense.
    Maybe I've just been lucky to have never seen this in the 4 years I've played this game, but I've NEVER pulled a ball to left field or seen the CPU pull a ball to left field and it say "late" or "very late"....much less a homerun to left field. I think you are exaggerating to get your point across.

    Comment

    • Bobhead
      Pro
      • Mar 2011
      • 4926

      #77
      Re: The CPU decides the game....

      Originally posted by Pared
      I don't fully agree.

      I think some of you are taking his comments to an extreme. There should be the capacity for a player to have random breakout seasons despite their ratings holding them back. If that were the case then the game will always be retroactive instead of proactive.

      Now I haven't played enough behind franchise to say if that is the case this year but I'm simply pointing out what he is alluding to. That's all, nothing more.
      I agree 100%, however, such capacity already exists, at least for me. I always have random breakout seasons with random players, and see plenty of my "sluggers" struggling to stay above the mendoza line.

      I would love to contribute to this topic, but to be honest I don't really understand what this discussion is even discussing, because everything everyone is complaining about is either already addressed this year, or makes no sense at all.

      Anyone complaining about difficulty can change the sliders, anyone complaining about Timing hitting can use Zone or Analog, and anyone complaining about simulation can stop buying simulation-baseball video games.

      Comment

      • Pared
        Legen - WAIT FOR IT
        • Feb 2003
        • 39337

        #78
        Re: The CPU decides the game....

        Originally posted by moemoe24
        Maybe I've just been lucky to have never seen this in the 4 years I've played this game, but I've NEVER pulled a ball to left field or seen the CPU pull a ball to left field and it say "late" or "very late"....much less a homerun to left field. I think you are exaggerating to get your point across.
        I agree with this. I haven't seen ball hit early end up in RF for a right handed batter, as an example.
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        Comment

        • moemoe24
          Rookie
          • Oct 2007
          • 1996

          #79
          Re: The CPU decides the game....

          Originally posted by Pared
          I don't fully agree.

          I think some of you are taking his comments to an extreme. There should be the capacity for a player to have random breakout seasons despite their ratings holding them back. If that were the case then the game will always be retroactive instead of proactive.

          Now I haven't played enough behind franchise to say if that is the case this year but I'm simply pointing out what he is alluding to. That's all, nothing more.
          Players do have breakout years though. Brett Wallace for the Astros has 20 homeruns thru June 29th in my season which is 3rd in the League. I have Pedro Borbon batting .335 thru June 29th with 4 homeruns and 30 RBI. If the game played like the OP is talking about would I be able to have Borbon hitting .335 or would Wallace have 20 bombs? I have Borbon hitting like crazy and I have Adrian Beltre, someone with great ratings hitting .229 thru June 29th. None of that would be possible if the game played like the op is suggessting.

          And for the record I play all star with contact at 0 with zone hitting.
          Last edited by moemoe24; 07-01-2011, 03:54 PM.

          Comment

          • moemoe24
            Rookie
            • Oct 2007
            • 1996

            #80
            Re: The CPU decides the game....

            Originally posted by Pared
            I don't fully agree.

            I think some of you are taking his comments to an extreme. There should be the capacity for a player to have random breakout seasons despite their ratings holding them back. If that were the case then the game will always be retroactive instead of proactive.

            Now I haven't played enough behind franchise to say if that is the case this year but I'm simply pointing out what he is alluding to. That's all, nothing more.
            Players do have breakout years though. Brett Wallace for the Astros has 20 homeruns thru June 29th in my season which is 3rd in the League. I have Julio Borbon batting .335 thru June 29th with 4 homeruns and 30 RBI. If the game played like the OP is talking about would I be able to have Borbon hitting .335 or would Wallace have 20 bombs? I have Borbon hitting like crazy and I have Adrian Beltre, someone with great ratings hitting .229 thru June 29th. None of that would be possible if the game played like the op is suggessting.

            And for the record I play all star with contact at 0 with zone hitting.

            Comment

            • Pared
              Legen - WAIT FOR IT
              • Feb 2003
              • 39337

              #81
              Re: The CPU decides the game....

              Originally posted by Bobhead
              I agree 100%, however, such capacity already exists, at least for me. I always have random breakout seasons with random players, and see plenty of my "sluggers" struggling to stay above the mendoza line.

              I would love to contribute to this topic, but to be honest I don't really understand what this discussion is even discussing, because everything everyone is complaining about is either already addressed this year, or makes no sense at all.

              Anyone complaining about difficulty can change the sliders, anyone complaining about Timing hitting can use Zone or Analog, and anyone complaining about simulation can stop buying simulation-baseball video games.
              Really? That's good to hear. I've never seen someone mention it that I can recall and I've not seen it myself. This includes when simming.

              I want those breakout seasons. Anderson from '96, Bautista from last year. Bautista with last years rosters wasn't a power threat early on but that makes sense because Sony can't be psychic. But I want my own storylines like this, including my team if user controlled.

              Although I'm sure many would just come on here and complain the game isn't real or a "sim" because of it.
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              Comment

              • Pared
                Legen - WAIT FOR IT
                • Feb 2003
                • 39337

                #82
                Re: The CPU decides the game....

                Originally posted by moemoe24
                Players do have breakout years though. Brett Wallace for the Astros has 20 homeruns thru June 29th in my season which is 3rd in the League. I have Julio Borbon batting .335 thru June 29th with 4 homeruns and 30 RBI. If the game played like the OP is talking about would I be able to have Borbon hitting .335 or would Wallace have 20 bombs? I have Borbon hitting like crazy and I have Adrian Beltre, someone with great ratings hitting .229 thru June 29th. None of that would be possible if the game played like the op is suggessting.

                And for the record I play all star with contact at 0 with zone hitting.
                Well - there ya go! Best way to prove your point. I need to stop simming games.

                And maybe pick a new team. :'(
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                [OS Vets NBA 2k7 Champion]
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                Operation Sports is NOT a website for you to bitch and moan about sports gaming.
                That's not the meaning of constructive criticism.

                *Official Miami Heat Haters Club Member #1*

                Comment

                • Bobhead
                  Pro
                  • Mar 2011
                  • 4926

                  #83
                  Re: The CPU decides the game....

                  Originally posted by Pared
                  Really? That's good to hear. I've never seen someone mention it that I can recall and I've not seen it myself. This includes when simming.

                  I want those breakout seasons. Anderson from '96, Bautista from last year. Bautista with last years rosters wasn't a power threat early on but that makes sense because Sony can't be psychic. But I want my own storylines like this, including my team if user controlled.

                  Although I'm sure many would just come on here and complain the game isn't real or a "sim" because of it.
                  Well now that you mention it, I don't think I have ever seen any anomaly seasons on any team other than my own. I was strictly talking about played games with my own team.

                  Comment

                  • treyraq
                    Rookie
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 493

                    #84
                    Re: The CPU decides the game....

                    Originally posted by Pared
                    Really? That's good to hear. I've never seen someone mention it that I can recall and I've not seen it myself. This includes when simming.

                    I want those breakout seasons.
                    I definitely see breakout seasons when I sim through Franchise seasons. It's really cool to see some of these guys that have never been a big name (IRL) put together an eye-catching season.

                    I also see the other end of the deal; And for some reason, and hopefully not my imagination, mostly pitchers tend to hit rock bottom and throw some ugly stats. Maybe that's real, now that I think about it; Pitchers being dominant for a couple of years and then just worthless...

                    It just seems to happen to guys you wouldn't expect: Lee, Lincecum, Beckett...
                    Last edited by treyraq; 07-01-2011, 04:50 PM.

                    Comment

                    • Knight165
                      *ll St*r
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 24964

                      #85
                      Re: The CPU decides the game....

                      They are there...for any team in franchise.
                      Players will usually play to their ratings...but they DEFINITELY NOT locked into their ratings.
                      They can be slightly rated and have great years...and be monsters in regards to ratings and have poor seasons.
                      I've guessed that it's streaks and coaching that causes these. But that's just my guess.

                      M.K.
                      Knight165
                      All gave some. Some gave all. 343

                      Comment

                      • jcern23
                        Banned
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 636

                        #86
                        Re: The CPU decides the game....

                        This is a touchy subject. I just finished a full season and lossed in game 7 of the alcs. I agree with the original post to a certain extent. I do think the CPU plays a large part in determining the game regardless of any setting that you are using. I love this game and have pretty much just learned to deal with the fact im not full control I wouldn't play 162 game seasons if I couldn't but I'd be lying if I said at times it doesn't drive me nuts. It's such a fine line to develop a game that let's the user control determine the outcome and maintain realism that I doubt it's even possible so I just take it for what it is. If it's like a strat at times it's still baseball so I can find a way to enjoy it. I will say that this game is as close to rolling the dice of a strat while taking into consideration user skill as any game I've ever played.

                        Comment

                        • liftheavy
                          Banned
                          • Feb 2003
                          • 1040

                          #87
                          Re: The CPU decides the game....

                          It seems like this whole issue started with the 09 version of the game. What level feels more like the CPU is deciding the game? I would think the middle level would be an even between player and CPU and then adjusting sliders from there. The other game has sliders that you can clearly see the "real difficulty". In that I mean they have setting on low levels that are in the players favor but once you get to legend mode most of the sliders are CPU advantage.

                          All Star level I would think would have 50 50 sliders while legend on the show would be like 25 player 75 CPU. Of course SCEA doesn't let you see this in the slider settings as everything on legend starts out middle ground. Those are my thoughts...good topic!

                          Comment

                          • BigTone1970
                            Rookie
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 48

                            #88
                            Re: The CPU decides the game....

                            Wow, I am glad to see that this post has inspired a lot of thought provoking responses. I don't want arcade, but I don't want to be a spectator also. That is all that I am saying. Read my posts. It justs seems that some games I am crushing the ball and other games I am limited to a few hits doing the same exact thing. I just want to exert a little bit of user input and sometimes it doesn't feel as if what I am doing matters at all. Please don't take my statements out of context. This is the best baseball game ever, but it is conversations like these that leads to improvements for us all. Everyone have a good 4th of July weekend.

                            Comment

                            • moemoe24
                              Rookie
                              • Oct 2007
                              • 1996

                              #89
                              Re: The CPU decides the game....

                              Originally posted by BigTone1970
                              Wow, I am glad to see that this post has inspired a lot of thought provoking responses. I don't want arcade, but I don't want to be a spectator also. That is all that I am saying. Read my posts. It justs seems that some games I am crushing the ball and other games I am limited to a few hits doing the same exact thing. I just want to exert a little bit of user input and sometimes it doesn't feel as if what I am doing matters at all. Please don't take my statements out of context. This is the best baseball game ever, but it is conversations like these that leads to improvements for us all. Everyone have a good 4th of July weekend.
                              Ive just really never understood this question or concern when I see it and I see it in every forum, every year of every sports game.

                              What I dont understand is how people dont see that the players in the game, whether its baseball, football or basketball are based on real life players, so of course Josh Hamilton is going to have a better year than Willie Bloomquist a lot more times than not if you sim or play a bunch of seasons. Its that way because Hamilton is a lot better than Bloomquist in real life. Thats not to say that if you have them both on your team that Bloomquist cant out playHamilton, it just means that there is a much better chance that Hamilton has a better year.

                              Like I mentioned above, as of June 29th in my season, playing with Texas, I have Borbon hitting .335 and Hamilton is only batting .255, Beltre is .229 and Michael Young is .233, Borbon is not only leading my team but he's 3rd in the AL in hitting. That shows right there that a lot of it is user controlled. I tend to swing at balls out of the zone with my big guys, often flailing at bad pitches...with Borbon I;m just trying to put the ball in play and this is my result. If it was all scripted and predetermined Borbon would be hitting about .230 and Hamilton, Beltre and Young would be .330.

                              And as far as the games I sim for the rest of the teams there are many breakout years. Im looking at my league leaders right now in the AL and here is the top 10
                              1. Ortiz .344
                              2. Yunel Escobar .339
                              3. Brett Gardner .335
                              4. Julio Borbon .335
                              5. Chone Figgins. 331
                              6. Matt Wieters .329
                              7. Matsui .329
                              8. Adrian Gonzalez .328
                              9. Ichiro .325
                              10. Ryan Raburn .324

                              There's five guys in that top 10 thats ratings in the game, if predetermined, would not be there.
                              Last edited by moemoe24; 07-01-2011, 10:42 PM.

                              Comment

                              • BigTone1970
                                Rookie
                                • Mar 2011
                                • 48

                                #90
                                Re: The CPU decides the game....

                                Although we all want a certain level of realism, we also want to be able to have some of our stick skills affect the game. I am glad you are having success, but playing with the Angels my team batting average is .241 and no one is batting .300. I don't want to participate in a pre-determined statistical simulation with beautiful graphics after all this is a video game and user input should have some type of affect on the outcome. There needs to be an incentive for the user to put the time into the game, get better, and then see results. As I have said, sometimes it feels that you can do everything right and still get your you know what handed to you. The thing that everyone continues to disregard is that I am often not perfect with hitting the ball and so when that happens I get what I deserve. But on the few times when I am perfect I expect hard contact even if it results in an out.

                                Comment

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