Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Two: slow down the pitch speed - I can't slow it down enough with the Show at 0. Having only a 10 point slider system is ridiculous imo. We should be able to tweak it to our liking.

I agree, default pitch speed [5] is already too fast so we are left with not that much tweaking as half of the slider values are already too fast. And, if your TV has input lag, then 0 might still be too fast.

Also, the bat speed should be increased. If you by any chance have 09 still, pop that in and you'll be early on everything when coming from 10 or 11. To me, 09 had perfect bat speed; inside pitches were turned on and hitting the outside pitch properly required you to concentrate and wait back that extra second.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

The game uses something like 90% of an actual speed/reaction time on a real MLB fastball. Most people like that, other games feel way too slow and artificial IMO.

There is a mechanic for not just getting blown by on a fastball (which is 90% of the fastball swings and misses in the major leagues)... they were "blown by"... its called zone hitting. So you can essentially "swing and miss".

I just fail to see the argument you are presenting. Seems too artificial (under the hood handicaps) to me. And takes away from actual realism. When it is timing the gamer needs to work on. If you are constantly late, swing sooner. You will or should eventually adjust.

But having the slider have more of an impact with the adjustments is something that I am sure can be brought up to the development team. But the default speed should stay as it is right now IMO.

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

The game uses something like 90% of an actual speed/reaction time on a real MLB fastball. Most people like that, other games feel way too slow and artificial IMO.

There is a mechanic for not just getting blown by on a fastball (which is 90% of the fastball swings and misses in the major leagues)... they were "blown by"... its called zone hitting. So you can essentially "swing and miss".

I just fail to see the argument you are presenting. Seems too artificial (under the hood handicaps) to me. And takes away from actual realism. When it is timing the gamer needs to work on. If you are constantly late, swing sooner. You will or should eventually adjust.

But having the slider have more of an impact with the adjustments is something that I am sure can be brought up to the development team. But the default speed should stay as it is right now IMO.

Moving an analog stick and pressing a button to swing is a lot different than actually swinging a bat in real life (I'm not at all saying swinging a bat is easy but real hitters have some help that we don't have as gamers). Couple that with the fact that the PCI COMPLETELY STOPS moving once you start you're swing doesn't help. At default pitch speed, I have to decide mentally before the pitch that the pitch will be a fastball and swing at the pitch completely under the assumption that it's a fastball. If I dedicate any time to pitch recognition, I'll be late on an average speed fastball. If major league hitters had to do the same thing, batting averages would be much lower. Plus, hitters have the benefit of reading the spin on the ball; in this game, there is no way to read the spin. Pitchers don't at all tip their pitches in this game (the animation is the exact same for every pitch), a pitcher with a good changeup has a good changeup because he throws it with the same arm speed as his fastball, a large majority of pitchers can't throw "perfect" changeups like that but every pitcher in The Show does. And I have no input lag as I play on a SDTV. Most people probably have at least some input lag as most play on a HDTV. I don't at all agree that the default pitch speed should stay the same. Either pitch speed needs to be lowered or bat speed needs to be increased.

Lastly, hitting a high fastball is hard enough but The Show makes high fastballs even faster than they should be. In real life, low fastballs actually come in faster than high fastballs, it's the reverse in The Show.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

I agree, default pitch speed [5] is already too fast so we are left with not that much tweaking as half of the slider values are already too fast. And, if your TV has input lag, then 0 might still be too fast.

Also, the bat speed should be increased. If you by any chance have 09 still, pop that in and you'll be early on everything when coming from 10 or 11. To me, 09 had perfect bat speed; inside pitches were turned on and hitting the outside pitch properly required you to concentrate and wait back that extra second.

The Show 09 was a blast. And I was able to turn on pitches as the bat speed was definitely cranked up - way better than Show 08 which frustrated me in that department.

The game uses something like 90% of an actual speed/reaction time on a real MLB fastball. Most people like that, other games feel way too slow and artificial IMO.

There is a mechanic for not just getting blown by on a fastball (which is 90% of the fastball swings and misses in the major leagues)... they were "blown by"... its called zone hitting. So you can essentially "swing and miss".

I just fail to see the argument you are presenting. Seems too artificial (under the hood handicaps) to me. And takes away from actual realism. When it is timing the gamer needs to work on. If you are constantly late, swing sooner. You will or should eventually adjust.

But having the slider have more of an impact with the adjustments is something that I am sure can be brought up to the development team. But the default speed should stay as it is right now IMO.

I'm not a major league hitter. Neither are 99% of the people that play the game. Most guys facing an 80 mph fastball would be swinging and missing in real life - especially if they have to face the junk too. I don't have a problem with leaving the default speed the way it is but you have to give us the tools to adjust the game to our liking. The slider system in the Show isn't good as a 10 point slider system is ridiculous. With default at 5 being so fast I can only reduce it 5 clicks. Why not go to a true 100 point slider system and give them real weight so gamers can play the way we want to? No other sports game has such a weak scale. For me the Show's pitch speed at 0 is too fast and I can't adjust so don't assume that's possible for everyone. Their is no remedy for me other than not buying the game as I get too frustrated with this aspect. It's a super simple fix on SCEA's end.

MLB 2K11 had real spray charts for the user. You could see exactly where you were hitting the ball as a lefty, righty, etc. I would love to see the Show add similar charts so we could see just how realistic or unrealistic our hitting patterns are. I think most people would find they push the ball far too much. Here was an image after only 8 games with 2K11. I wish I would have taken another one before trading it in last month. Even with their slower pitch speed I was pushing the ball too much and I understand it may never be perfect with a baseball game but there are ways to improve things.

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

The Show 09 was a blast. And I was able to turn on pitches as the bat speed was definitely cranked up - way better than Show 08 which frustrated me in that department.

The horribly slow bat speed of 08 totally ruined the game. Inside pitches were hit the other way (it was almost impossible to pull inside fastballs) and outside pitches were pulled, it just wasn't baseball.

[EnigmaNemesis]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

The Show 09 was a blast. And I was able to turn on pitches as the bat speed was definitely cranked up - way better than Show 08 which frustrated me in that department.




I'm not a major league hitter. Neither are 99% of the people that play the game. Most guys facing an 80 mph fastball would be swinging and missing in real life - especially if they have to face the junk too. I don't have a problem with leaving the default speed the way it is but you have to give us the tools to adjust the game to our liking. The slider system in the Show isn't good as a 10 point slider system is ridiculous. With default at 5 being so fast I can only reduce it 5 clicks. Why not go to a true 100 point slider system and give them real weight so gamers can play the way we want to? No other sports game has such a weak scale. For me the Show's pitch speed at 0 is too fast and I can't adjust so don't assume that's possible for everyone. Their is no remedy for me other than not buying the game as I get too frustrated with this aspect. It's a super simple fix on SCEA's end.

MLB 2K11 had real spray charts for the user. You could see exactly where you were hitting the ball as a lefty, righty, etc. I would love to see the Show add similar charts so we could see just how realistic or unrealistic our hitting patterns are. I think most people would find they push the ball far too much. Here was an image after only 8 games with 2K11. I wish I would have taken another one before trading it in last month. Even with their slower pitch speed I was pushing the ball too much and I understand it may never be perfect with a baseball game but there are ways to improve things.

Fair enough... I will definitely forward this to someone. People are having a difficult time with timing compared to the games of the past in this series I noticed.

And it was ignorant of me to think every can adjust. (My baseball playing days coming back and I have to remember as you said, not everyone can hit a baseball beyond 80MPH)

So maybe the slider can be adjusted to have more of and impact, and the default speed tuned. So for those who want it faster than this year's default they can turn it up a notch.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

Fair enough... I will definitely forward this to someone. People are having a difficult time with timing compared to the games of the past in this series I noticed.

And it was ignorant of me to think every can adjust. (My baseball playing days coming back and I have to remember as you said, not everyone can hit a baseball beyond 80MPH)

So maybe the slider can be adjusted to have more of and impact, and the default speed tuned. So for those who want it faster than this year's default they can turn it up a notch.

I'm 39 and my baseball reflexes are slow lol. I have no problem playing with sliders and the Show is pretty good at default for a lot of things. But the pitch speed is tough for me and it's impossible for my young son if I ever let him take some hacks in an exhibition mode. Just give me a better slider and I'll be happy.

[nomo17k]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

I do think it's a bit too hard to turn to inside/high fastball as many guys here have mentioned; I almost have never seen any HUM players online who can consistently pull inside fastball at any regularity... by now I have played quite a few good players so it's not players that are awful. It's almost a guaranteed foul ball and it makes working the count as a pitcher less challenging. Most use zone hitting so it's not just analog thing as well. Besides, online pitch speed is very slow compared to offline.

So, some tweaking there would be much desired.

However, I actually like very much the devs' decision to use high pitch speed to recreate the difficulty of hitting. I can't say I've played other arcade baseball games but this really is the very first game that makes me experience how it feels like to go against pitches at pro speed.

As far as the pitch speed is concerned, all that is needed is for the pitch speed slider set to the minimum to lower the speed quite a bit more than it does right now. I think the max setting can stay the same (I measured the frame rate per sec via videos and I think the max setting roughly get it to the real life MLB speed, like 90 mph really travels close to 90 mph, and I like to have that option to make things challenging).

Now, swing timing vs batted ball direction is a slightly different thing...

[Bobhead]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

I agree that minimum pitch speed should be lower, but I think the real perpetrator here is the incredibly slow bat speed.

I also find it incredibly annoying that the instant you press the swing button, the PCI stops moving (for Zone hitting players)

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

I think the real perpetrator here is the incredibly slow bat speed.

I also find it incredibly annoying that the instant you press the swing button, the PCI stops moving (for Zone hitting players)

100% agree on both points.

There's just so many times I look down at the controller to see I located properly with the left stick only to see in the swing analysis that the PCI didn't move, so very frustrating. I hate the PCI locks in the second you press the swing button.

[nomo17k]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

But once you commit with your swing, you shouldn't really be able to change THAT much where you want the sweet spot to be, especially when the pitch is fast and not one of those slow breaking pitches.

Everything happens within a split second, and much of what a hitter does is from muscle memory and too little time for deliberate adjustments. When a hitter recognizes a pitch, he anticipate where the ball would be when it gets to the plate, decides whether to commit, and if he decides to commit, then his swing would aim to hit the pitch at that anticipated location. So not being able to move PCI after committing is actually more realistic in that sense.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

I agree that minimum pitch speed should be lower, but I think the real perpetrator here is the incredibly slow bat speed.

I also find it incredibly annoying that the instant you press the swing button, the PCI stops moving (for Zone hitting players)

Lower pitch speed, boost bat speed. Whatever it takes to help me out. I need it. Every year I lower pitch speed to 0 and pray it won't frustrate me. Show 09 was really good but many other versions lead to frustration and it just isn't fun. It can be a big issue for the people this affects (I have no problem admitting I'm in a small minority here).

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

But once you commit with your swing, you shouldn't really be able to change THAT much where you want the sweet spot to be, especially when the pitch is fast and not one of those slow breaking pitches.

Everything happens within a split second, and much of what a hitter does is from muscle memory and too little time for deliberate adjustments. When a hitter recognizes a pitch, he anticipate where the ball would be when it gets to the plate, decides whether to commit, and if he decides to commit, then his swing would aim to hit the pitch at that anticipated location. So not being able to move PCI after committing is actually more realistic in that sense.

You think when a hitter begins his swing he has final location of the pitch locked in? Of course he doesn't, that's why proper hitting mechanics is to keep your head down on the ball during the whole pitch and your brain keeps recalculating the whole time. Hitters adjust their swing in mid-swing all the time. You almost always anticipate fastball and then adjust off of that. You see batters following a slider or curveball all the time. Or when they get fooled a bit and slow the swing down to punch a changeup the other way.

Lower pitch speed, boost bat speed. Whatever it takes to help me out. I need it. Every year I lower pitch speed to 0 and pray it won't frustrate me. Show 09 was really good but many other versions lead to frustration and it just isn't fun. It can be a big issue for the people this affects (I have no problem admitting I'm in a small minority here).

I doubt anyone with a HDTV plays with pitch speed above default. Input lag is really the dirty little secret of HDTVs, it's the one specification that is NEVER listed. I play on a SDTV with no input lag, and default pitch speed is just too fast.

[nomo17k]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

You almost always anticipate fastball and then adjust off of that. You see batters following a slider or curveball all the time. Or when they get fooled a bit and slow the swing down to punch a changeup the other way.

When you are adjusting from fast to slow stuff, that's possible to some extent by compensating the swing speed. Not the reverse though and that's why it's usually better to sit on faster stuff than slow stuff (besides that you tend to see more fastball). Problem is you perhaps could separate the two cases above with analog where you have two points of timing (stride plus swing) but not with the button-based hitting interface.

But I disagree you can continuously adjust in mid swing. Maybe some contact hitters with crazy bat control like Ichiro can, after all that's their style, but most hitters cannot and wouldn't... they really have to sacrifice bat speed to change the swing once you transfer the energy and momentum from body to the bat...

[Vashyron.]

Re: Pull hitters, spray hitters, and power to the opposite field

But I disagree you can continuously adjust in mid swing. Maybe some contact hitters with crazy bat control like Ichiro can, after all that's their style, but most hitters cannot and wouldn't... they really have to sacrifice bat speed to change the swing once you transfer the energy and momentum from body to the bat...

I'm not talking about say starting your swing letter high then adjusting to like knee high on a curveball. Hitters are always making subtle adjustments of centimeters or inches as they are looking the ball in.

I'd say in-game, we should have from the start to middle of the swing to adjust the PCI. And maybe, during that time, even slow down the speed at which you can move the PCI as well so you can make minor not major adjustments.

Like I said in an earlier post, real life hitters get help and tips on the pitch that gamers don't get; we can't read the spin on the ball and pitchers in the game don't tip pitches at all (every pitch is thrown with the exact same animation) so every pitcher has a great changeup because the arm motion is the same.