Tigers franchise for 2012

[ZM Punk]

Going to use them and Miami this year.

[timbeau0805]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

I don't play online, but I'm going to have a load of fun using them in franchise mode this year.

[Ben9753]

I wouldn't be surprised if they moved Prince or Miggy to DH for games that Porcello and Fister pitch and put Inge or Kelly at third, as they are extreme groundball pitchers. Verlander and Scherzer are flyball pitchers, so the disadvantage of having a subpar defensive third baseman will not be so great.
Also, to realize how good Miggy is at the plate, think about this:
Even if he had been the worst defensive third baseman in the league last year by quite a bit, he still would have been the most valuable 3rd baseman in the league. Of course, you try to maximize his value by minimizing the deficiencies he brings to the game and maximize his value by decreasing then, AKA DH, it is still important to realize just how great of a hitter he is, and that he helps you anywhere on the diamond.

[ParisB]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the Tigers crash and burn. They have horrendous defense, slow baserunners, and no pitching after Verlander. You always have to be concerned with players gaining weght, as they typically have the shortest prime years and dramatic dropoff in production.

[jake44np]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

I would love to see Cabby at 3rd and Inge in Toledo!

With Prince at 1st and Maggy at 3rd their defense is going to be absolutely horrible!

[PsychoBulk]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

and no pitching after Verlander.

Thats patently false.

You must have missed Doug Fisters MLB leading 1.79 ERA after he came over from Seattle.

Scherzer has a career 3.92 ERA, more than acceptable for a no.3 starter which he now is.

Porcello at 4 has a 4.54 ERA, again, quite acceptable for a back of the rotation pitcher, and hes young and will only improve.

No.5 spot is up from grabs as thankfully the awful Brad Penny was released, its looking likely our top prospect and no.13 in the top 100 MLB prospects Jacob Turner could get it to start the season.

Did you also forget the stellar numbers of Benoit and perfect save season from Jose Valverde?

So, all in all, id say theres more than enough pitching after JV

[Brewhaha]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Man...We haven't seen a hitting duo like Cabrera and Fielder since....Braun and Fielder.

[PsychoBulk]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Except Cabrera is better, far better than Braun, so yes, its a stronger 1-2 punch

[Brewhaha]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Except Cabrera is better, far better than Braun, so yes, its a stronger 1-2 punch

Really? Far better? Far better is simply not true, who's better, that's obviously debatable, especially when you factor in defense and Braun's speed.

[jake44np]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Except Cabrera is better, far better than Braun, so yes, its a stronger 1-2 punch

Far better??? No way!
Cabrera has a few more HR's the last 3 years and 6 more RBI's total the last 3 years.
Braun has over 50 more stolen bases the last 3 years and acually plays defense.
Is Cabrera a better hitter? Probably, but he is not a FAR better player.

[Money99]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Except Cabrera is better, far better than Braun, so yes, its a stronger 1-2 punch

Don't forget herpes-free! (insert rim-shot!)

[PsychoBulk]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Really? Far better? Far better is simply not true, who's better, that's obviously debatable, especially when you factor in defense and Braun's speed.

Defensively without doubt Braun is superior, but as for whos the better hitter, that really isnt up for any kind of debate, the stats tell you as much, and i can pretty much guarantee you if you gave all 30 MLB managers a free choice between the two of who they would want in their lineup if they could only have one, Cabrera would win 99% of those votes.

The remaining 1% would be Ned Yost & Ron Roenicke.

Cabreras numbers have him on track to be an all time great, Brauns numbers simply make him a very good player, theres is a clear difference.

Anyway, we shouldnt digress so much

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Well, Cabrera is a much better hitter. His last 2 years are far better than Braun has ever done. Braun has never posted an OBP higher than .400 while Cabrera has 3 times and his his career OBP is .395. You can say better overall player even though Cabrera's defense isn't as bad as people assume and he's actually a great baserunner. Aggressive and smart on the basepaths. Was 2nd in all of baseball in going from 1st to 3rd. The thinking that he is a one dimensional slugger is not true at all. Just because he is big and a big hitter people think he doesn't do anything else. I thought the same way, until I saw him play everyday for 4 years.

Don't get me wrong, Braun is in the class of elite hitters. Cabrera leads the class of elite hitters. It all comes down to whether you value defense in place of extra offense.

And Cabrera is not "far and away" the worst defensive third basemen in baseball. His fielding percentage in 2007 would have him ranked 14th out of 20 Third Basemen last season with as many chances. His range is not great, but his arm is as strong as anybodys and he has great hands. He'll catch everything he can get to, he's been that way his whole career. So he's bottom half defensively, yes, but who really cares if he's the most productive hitter in baseball? Who will really get worked up about defense when a player has a .450 OBP and 1.000 OPS?

Just 3 years ago the Tigers starting SS-3B combination was Adam Everett and Brandon Inge. Now their starting 3B-SS combination is the best hitting 3B in the AL and the best hitting Shortstop in the AL (Peralta was last year.) People can't complain after what they had??

I think people are just looking for reasons to dim excitement about Tiger fans. You have two players, who are 27 and 28, both 950+ OPS hitters, both 35 homer guys, high average guys. In the same lineup. No other can say that. And I see people complaining about defense, like will their errors really offset that offensive production? There's no way.

I see people like "Oh yea well they won't be able to handle bunts at all." If you're excited about your team laying down bunts agaisnt the Tigers this year I would imagine your team is pretty bad.

[ParisB]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Thats patently false.

You must have missed Doug Fisters MLB leading 1.79 ERA after he came over from Seattle.

Scherzer has a career 3.92 ERA, more than acceptable for a no.3 starter which he now is.

Porcello at 4 has a 4.54 ERA, again, quite acceptable for a back of the rotation pitcher, and hes young and will only improve.

No.5 spot is up from grabs as thankfully the awful Brad Penny was released, its looking likely our top prospect and no.13 in the top 100 MLB prospects Jacob Turner could get it to start the season.

Did you also forget the stellar numbers of Benoit and perfect save season from Jose Valverde?

So, all in all, id say theres more than enough pitching after JV

They were middle of the pack in just about every category, and that was with guys like Valverde having career years (and willing to bet he won't repeat a no save season). Middle of the pack even with Verlander being amazing, another bet he won't replicate.

You're using best case scenarios.

Your argument is subjective. You're using a small sample size for Fister, Scherzer is average but not somebody you want as a #3 come playoff time, Porcello is almost a 5.00 ERA. Just because he's young you can't say he will only get better. You can say that about any mediocre player in the league that's young. That's based on hope. The #5 spot is wide open, every guy playing for that spot on any team is some kind of prospect or "hope". It's a wild card, so again, you're just banking on the best case scenario.

Detroit is going to be an offensive team. I'm not trying to be a *****, I just think they still have big weaknesses. Defense does matter as it mitigates their offensive production or any advantage.

Detroit was a .500 team outside of their division, and 28 games over within the Central.

All I'm saying is they still have things to fix. Fielder will replace Vmart's production, but their infield defense has the potential of being horrible. Not from an error standpoint, but by not being able to get anything. They also lack speed on the bases and again, after Verlander is a bunch of question marks.

Just saying.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Fister is not a small sample size, he had a 2.79 ERA in 31 starts. He had a 3.20 ERA in Seattle in his first 21 starts.

Scherzer is not a question mark...he's shown at worst he's a 4.40 ERA type of guy. But he can also be a 3.50 ERA type of guy. He throws a lot of innings, and is a big strikeout guy which you need when you aren't great defensively. And not to mention they beat New York in 5 games, and took Texas to 6 and that's while they were a beat up team with a lot of injuries.

For the 5th spot, they are replacing Brad Penny and his 5.50 ERA with most likely Jacob Turner who is a top 10 pitching prospect.

They aren't just a team that made their living off of beating up on the central. They were 45-36 on the road, and played very well agaisnt teams like Texas, New York, Tampa Bay, Toronto, and LA. They had a better record agaisnt the AL East than New York did.

And their lack of speed is not a reason of concern. They never have had speed. Not in 2006, not in 2007, not in 2008, and they were a great offensive team in those years. In 2009 they probably had the most speed they had in 7 years but they were horrible offensively. I will trade speed for Cabrera, Fielder, Avila, Peralta, and Young every single time.

So having a full year of Fister, Boesch, and Young is a big difference. They didn't have Delmon or Fister in the first half, or Boesch in the 2nd half.