Tigers franchise for 2012

[thaSLAB]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Fister is not a small sample size, he had a 2.79 ERA in 31 starts. He had a 3.20 ERA in Seattle in his first 21 starts.

Scherzer is not a question mark...he's shown at worst he's a 4.40 ERA type of guy. But he can also be a 3.50 ERA type of guy. He throws a lot of innings, and is a big strikeout guy which you need when you aren't great defensively. And not to mention they beat New York in 5 games, and took Texas to 6 and that's while they were a beat up team with a lot of injuries.

For the 5th spot, they are replacing Brad Penny and his 5.50 ERA with most likely Jacob Turner who is a top 10 pitching prospect.

They aren't just a team that made their living off of beating up on the central. They were 45-36 on the road, and played very well agaisnt teams like Texas, New York, Tampa Bay, Toronto, and LA. They had a better record agaisnt the AL East than New York did.

And their lack of speed is not a reason of concern. They never have had speed. Not in 2006, not in 2007, not in 2008, and they were a great offensive team in those years. In 2009 they probably had the most speed they had in 7 years but they were horrible offensively. I will trade speed for Cabrera, Fielder, Avila, Peralta, and Young every single time.

So having a full year of Fister, Boesch, and Young is a big difference. They didn't have Delmon or Fister in the first half, or Boesch in the 2nd half.

I think Leyland put it best when he said, "If they hit 'em in the right places, they can trot and won't have to worry about running." - and not just speaking of homeruns. They are a true doubles team.

[PsychoBulk]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Fister is not a small sample size, he had a 2.79 ERA in 31 starts. He had a 3.20 ERA in Seattle in his first 21 starts.

Scherzer is not a question mark...he's shown at worst he's a 4.40 ERA type of guy. But he can also be a 3.50 ERA type of guy. He throws a lot of innings, and is a big strikeout guy which you need when you aren't great defensively. And not to mention they beat New York in 5 games, and took Texas to 6 and that's while they were a beat up team with a lot of injuries.

For the 5th spot, they are replacing Brad Penny and his 5.50 ERA with most likely Jacob Turner who is a top 10 pitching prospect.

They aren't just a team that made their living off of beating up on the central. They were 45-36 on the road, and played very well agaisnt teams like Texas, New York, Tampa Bay, Toronto, and LA. They had a better record agaisnt the AL East than New York did.

And their lack of speed is not a reason of concern. They never have had speed. Not in 2006, not in 2007, not in 2008, and they were a great offensive team in those years. In 2009 they probably had the most speed they had in 7 years but they were horrible offensively. I will trade speed for Cabrera, Fielder, Avila, Peralta, and Young every single time.

So having a full year of Fister, Boesch, and Young is a big difference. They didn't have Delmon or Fister in the first half, or Boesch in the 2nd half.

Excellent post.

To say the Tigers cant win because of lack of speed/lack of pitching depth is patently not true...but im not some sort of homer, neither are you and guys like thaSLAB, simply telling it how it is.

Best pitching team in the AL for me? Tampa Bay.

Best overall lineup? For me, still Texas.

Best mixture of both - possibly our Tigers, chuck in the Angels/Rangers, Rays and yes even the Red Sox to that, even the Yanks with Pineda/Kuroda to support CC.

To my mind its between those 6 for the AL Pennant, bring on the race.

[catswithbats]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Honestly it wouldn't surprise me if the Tigers crash and burn. They have horrendous defense, slow baserunners, and no pitching after Verlander. You always have to be concerned with players gaining weght, as they typically have the shortest prime years and dramatic dropoff in production.

No pitching after Verlander? Really? Fister and Valverde will probably regress but I don't think they'll be terrible, and Porcello and Scherzer should rebound from their 2011 seasons.

[greenngoldbaseball]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

For those that have played 12, any idea how this will play out in the game, defensively that is? In previous games, you could put sub par defenders in almost any spot with little consequence. With the new physics engine, I relish the chance to see if what will assuredly be one of the worst defensive infields in the game will be accurately represented.

[ParisB]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Fister is not a small sample size, he had a 2.79 ERA in 31 starts. He had a 3.20 ERA in Seattle in his first 21 starts.

Scherzer is not a question mark...he's shown at worst he's a 4.40 ERA type of guy. But he can also be a 3.50 ERA type of guy. He throws a lot of innings, and is a big strikeout guy which you need when you aren't great defensively. And not to mention they beat New York in 5 games, and took Texas to 6 and that's while they were a beat up team with a lot of injuries.

For the 5th spot, they are replacing Brad Penny and his 5.50 ERA with most likely Jacob Turner who is a top 10 pitching prospect.

They aren't just a team that made their living off of beating up on the central. They were 45-36 on the road, and played very well agaisnt teams like Texas, New York, Tampa Bay, Toronto, and LA. They had a better record agaisnt the AL East than New York did.

And their lack of speed is not a reason of concern. They never have had speed. Not in 2006, not in 2007, not in 2008, and they were a great offensive team in those years. In 2009 they probably had the most speed they had in 7 years but they were horrible offensively. I will trade speed for Cabrera, Fielder, Avila, Peralta, and Young every single time.

So having a full year of Fister, Boesch, and Young is a big difference. They didn't have Delmon or Fister in the first half, or Boesch in the 2nd half.

Here's an interesting article to chew on:

http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/20298/six-angles-on-the-tigers-defense

Again, they did make their living beating up on the AL Central. Like I said, they were 28 games over .500 against their division. They were .500 against everyone else.

And yes, they are middle of the pack (or below) with pitching after Verlander. They were middle of the pack even with him having an amazing season. And I can guarantee you Velvarde will blow saves this season (even a dominant closer blows 5).

I'm just raising my points of skepticism. They will win the division almost no doubt. They will score a lot of runs. But I see them being horrendous on defense (don't forget Peralta has no range either), mediocre after Verlander, and .500 outside their division.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Peralta has no range, blah blah. How many shorstops have great range, catch everything they get to, and have perfect accuracy throwing across the diamond? I count less than 5. Peralta has two of those things which is a lot better than most. He's not a liability. If he had range, he'd be as good as anybody defensively.

The Tigers were "horrendous" defensively last year also. Wilson Betemit wasn't exactly a gold glove candidate.

Valverde will regress and blow a couple, but it's not like that's going to really effect their W-L record. Maybe a game or two?

I don't believe they are middle of the pack after Verlander. Fister is not a middle of the back pitcher and his success last year wasn't a result of luck, he simply got better. His K rate improved and was getting more swings and misses. Scherzer and Porcello were very interesting. If look at their month by month ERA, they would go from 3 ERA to 5 ERA every month. These are two young pitchers who are really close to putting it all together, they are just inconsistent because they are still learning how to put hitters away. The odds of them improving are higher than them staying the same.

And Turner is the wild card...he could come on and be a ROY candidate and win a handful of games, either way with their kids they will be getting an upgrade from Brad Penny.

They couldn't defend on the Corners last year either (LF, RF, 3B), they had no speed, they had inconsistent pitching and they still won 95 games. Even when Cleveland was in the race, Scherzer pitched a hell of a game in August to put them away for good.

The Central wasn't a laughing stock all season. When Cleveland was up by 6.5 games and playing as good as anybody? The Tigers played GREAT baseball to overcome them and take 1st place. Cleveland managed to hang around and be a threat all summer, they were a good team. But when the two teams met up, even though the Indians played them well, the Tigers were better and won those games. The Tigers built that huge 15 game lead after they had already deflated Cleveland's chances. Say what you want about the Indians, but they were in the hunt all season until that series in late August in Detroit. They were no joke.

These articles talking about Detroit's defense are hilarious. They replaced a mediocre defender with a slightly worse defender. THAT'S IT! So where were these concerns before? They say Prince and Miguel are equally as bad, so they just traded in one bad defenders for another at Third Base.

And if you count Inge's defense as to why they are taking a huge hit at 3rd defensively instead of Betemit? Sure, he's slightly above average. But he also had a nice .190 average and .270 OBP. They guy who's replacing him? Cabrera DOUBLED all of Inge's statistics, BA, OBP, OPS, yes he doubled them! And you guys are gonna tell me you won't gladly take that tradeoff?

A team makes a big move and people will do anything to criticize it. That's fine if you want to talk about defense, but where was this talk before? They took a slight hit at 3rd, and replaced the leagues worst hitter with the best hitter. BIG DEAL! You're telling me no other team in baseball downgraded at any position?

You ask any of these writers, do you want Brandon Inge as your third basemen or Miguel Cabrera? Tell them Cabrera will play third base with no glove and eyes shut and they will still take Cabrera every single time! Nobody is going to take the slightly better defender who hits .200 over the guy winning batting titles and putting up a 1.000 OPS.

They would all do the same thing if they were in the Tigers position. None of them would take Inge over Cabrera. That's why I pay no mind to these people saying that they will be disastrous defensively, and like that will make them a 59 win team.

Baseball is not a sport where defense alone will win you a championship. Ask the Twins, or the Athletics. You know what does help you win championships? Superstars in the middle of your batting order. Ask the Cardinals, Yankee's, Phillies, and Red Sox.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

And you know what? The are taking one of the leagues worst outfielders and putting him at DH. And Andy Dirks, who has a good glove and speed will be in LF.

They downgraded at third and upgraded big time in LF.

That balances out, they are literally the same team defensively. And you add in the fact the leagues worst hitter is out of the lineup in place of a guy who finished third in MVP voting? They improved their team.

[ParisB]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Peralta has no range, blah blah. How many shorstops have great range, catch everything they get to, and have perfect accuracy throwing across the diamond? I count less than 5. Peralta has two of those things which is a lot better than most. He's not a liability. If he had range, he'd be as good as anybody defensively.

The Tigers were "horrendous" defensively last year also. Wilson Betemit wasn't exactly a gold glove candidate.

Valverde will regress and blow a couple, but it's not like that's going to really effect their W-L record. Maybe a game or two?

I don't believe they are middle of the pack after Verlander. Fister is not a middle of the back pitcher and his success last year wasn't a result of luck, he simply got better. His K rate improved and was getting more swings and misses. Scherzer and Porcello were very interesting. If look at their month by month ERA, they would go from 3 ERA to 5 ERA every month. These are two young pitchers who are really close to putting it all together, they are just inconsistent because they are still learning how to put hitters away. The odds of them improving are higher than them staying the same.

And Turner is the wild card...he could come on and be a ROY candidate and win a handful of games, either way with their kids they will be getting an upgrade from Brad Penny.

They couldn't defend on the Corners last year either (LF, RF, 3B), they had no speed, they had inconsistent pitching and they still won 95 games. Even when Cleveland was in the race, Scherzer pitched a hell of a game in August to put them away for good.

The Central wasn't a laughing stock all season. When Cleveland was up by 6.5 games and playing as good as anybody? The Tigers played GREAT baseball to overcome them and take 1st place. Cleveland managed to hang around and be a threat all summer, they were a good team. But when the two teams met up, even though the Indians played them well, the Tigers were better and won those games. The Tigers built that huge 15 game lead after they had already deflated Cleveland's chances. Say what you want about the Indians, but they were in the hunt all season until that series in late August in Detroit. They were no joke.

These articles talking about Detroit's defense are hilarious. They replaced a mediocre defender with a slightly worse defender. THAT'S IT! So where were these concerns before? They say Prince and Miguel are equally as bad, so they just traded in one bad defenders for another at Third Base.

And if you count Inge's defense as to why they are taking a huge hit at 3rd defensively instead of Betemit? Sure, he's slightly above average. But he also had a nice .190 average and .270 OBP. They guy who's replacing him? Cabrera DOUBLED all of Inge's statistics, BA, OBP, OPS, yes he doubled them! And you guys are gonna tell me you won't gladly take that tradeoff?

A team makes a big move and people will do anything to criticize it. That's fine if you want to talk about defense, but where was this talk before? They took a slight hit at 3rd, and replaced the leagues worst hitter with the best hitter. BIG DEAL! You're telling me no other team in baseball downgraded at any position?

You ask any of these writers, do you want Brandon Inge as your third basemen or Miguel Cabrera? Tell them Cabrera will play third base with no glove and eyes shut and they will still take Cabrera every single time! Nobody is going to take the slightly better defender who hits .200 over the guy winning batting titles and putting up a 1.000 OPS.

They would all do the same thing if they were in the Tigers position. None of them would take Inge over Cabrera. That's why I pay no mind to these people saying that they will be disastrous defensively, and like that will make them a 59 win team.

Baseball is not a sport where defense alone will win you a championship. Ask the Twins, or the Athletics. You know what does help you win championships? Superstars in the middle of your batting order. Ask the Cardinals, Yankee's, Phillies, and Red Sox.

Alright, I get it, you're a Tigers fan. I have no horse in this race, just giving my opinion based on statistics and facts. They will be fun in The Show.

I've said my piece, you said yours. Enjoy your Tigers franchise in The Show '12. I won't be putting any money on Detroit when I go to Vegas though.

[Black59Razr]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

If the batter's eye is fixed at Comerica, I am going to play all 162 games in season mode, with the Tigers. Gonna play with all stock settings and shoot for 110 wins and a ring!

That should take me 2 months. By then, the first couple updates and some really solid rosters will be out. Then I will start my real franchise.

Also, Detroit's road uniforms are the best in baseball history (especially with the high socks)



If this uniform doesn't scream 'baseball' to you, well then, I just can't help you

[Black59Razr]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

I have a feeling most Tigers fans will be very happy right now, but in the future it could be a different story. The Tigers will have decisions ahead. Prince is a very good player. I hope the contract works out, but I wonder if it will. Will he just end up being a DH in say 4 years b/c of his weight? Baseball contracts and all sports contracts are getting out of control. Prince will make about 160 grand per 9 innings. A-Rod, and Pujols are in the same situation. These contracts are crazy. I am a huge sports fans, but I think they should limit contracts. Baseball is the most out of control with contracts of the 4 major sports. They will never change things though. I am not trying to create a debate or rain on anyones parade, just pointing out some facts. On that same note, I am still trying to stomach the loss of Montero. Oh well. Hopefully, Pineda is as advertised.

On to the Show, I always have trouble dealing with Cabrera when playing the Tigers and Verlander is hit or miss for me (I will either rock him or not hit anything). But it is definitely going to suck having to face Prince there too haha. But I like the extra competition in the AL. I still can't land on an NL team to use this year. This game needs to come out already.

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to comment on this. Being from the Milwaukee market during most of Prince's stay there, I wanted to share this one stat:

Games Missed
2006: 5
2007: 4
2008: 3
2009: 0
2010: 1
2011: 0

No modern ball player is as durable. Looking at his weight and ignoring the numbers reminds me of the Moneyball scene where the scout said he didnt like a player because he had an ugly girlfriend.

[CabreraMVP]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

I've always admired that about him, he's a throwback. In there everyday. In terms of 3-4-5 years from now, I'm sure him and Cabrera will take turns at DH/1B. Sounds good to me.

[ParisB]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

As an Indians fan, I'm deeply depressed by this. We finally had some young up and coming players, with a decent shot at playoffs. We had a hard enough time tackling the Tigers before they even had Delmond Young. Now we are pretty much screwed again for the year.

The Indians will be stuck with these crappy owners for yeeears.

Keep your head up, baseball is played on the field not on paper

Ran into this thread while searching for Franchise tips and remembered it

How is everyone doing in their Franchise? I'd like to see some stats to compare mine with.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

Keep your head up, baseball is played on the field not on paper

Ran into this thread while searching for Franchise tips and remembered it

How is everyone doing in their Franchise? I'd like to see some stats to compare mine with.

Paris, I'd just like to see your stats and get a little update!!!

Thought you may have switched to Konami!!! LOL!

[pokerplaya]

Re: Tigers franchise for 2012

I've always admired that about him, he's a throwback. In there everyday. In terms of 3-4-5 years from now, I'm sure him and Cabrera will take turns at DH/1B. Sounds good to me.

Actually, I've heard that it was written into his contract that he will NOT DH, and his manager cannot DH him unless he is rehabbing an injury in which it is to his benefit to return to 100% and then he returns to the field.

I obviously have not SEEN his contract, but have heard this plenty here in the D.