Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap?

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  • WAZ
    Rookie
    • Nov 2002
    • 302

    #61
    Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

    Originally posted by Pared
    once you have a good base, should you scrap it just so it feels fresh or do you want it keep trying to portray the sport as accurately as possible?

    Basically, just give me your thoughts. It's easy to say it looks the same... but I'm interested in expectations that can formulate into tangible evidence. Outside of commentary/audio... what do you expect to see that would lead you to not feel as you do?
    I don't think they should scrap the engine, but there are things that would improve the "feel" of the game significantly, IMO... things that would make it feel shiny and new, and less like last year's game.

    I feel like I've personally been harping on the same couple issues for about 4-5 years now... but the main one is the lack of precise/manual fielding.

    The game has looked, sounded, and played largely the same since 2007. Of course that's to be expected using the same engine -- and don't get me wrong, the gameplay is still the best out there. But every year I feel like the ball gets put into play, I nonchalantly move my player within 5 feet of a giant spinning ball graphic, and he automatically makes the catch. There's really no skill required or any sort of interesting involvement with fielding. And the giant spinning ball just looks old and out of place now, as it's been basically the same since about MLB 06 on PS2.

    I was really hoping that after 5 years, this would be the year we got true manual fielding -- to actually get to CONTROL your player all the way until the catch. Move him to a small (shrinking?) spot where the ball will land and actually have to pay some attention and not just have the CPU automatically control your player for half the sequence. Other games, from High Heat to MLB 2K11, have had much "tighter" fielding (I even remember editing High Heat's famous text file to have a smaller catch region), but The Show still feels very similar in the field to how it did 5 years ago... the '12 demo TBD.

    Hell, maybe even an optional "Catch" button, like having to time pressing/releasing R1 when the ball reaches your glove, where the window of opportunity is bigger or smaller depending on the fielder's ratings. Just something to make fielding more involved, lively, interesting, and under the player's manual control. Something to make it FEEL new and different, even if it's the same solid engine underneath.

    Anyway, sorry for the long tangent that sounds half like a wishlist. :o But there are lots of things to answer your question, which I don't think are lofty expectations... New manual fielding controls, maybe button-tapping to sprint down a gapper or beat out a bunt single, a new user interface, menus, and franchise setup (still using newspapers from MLB 06?), even just some new fanfare intro music (been that exact same orchestral theme on the XMB and title screen for years)... along with this year's ball physics and real-time TV presentation... that would definitely go a long way toward feeling like a truly NEW game while continuing to build on what already works.
    "60% of the time, it works every time."

    Comment

    • Pared
      Legen - WAIT FOR IT
      • Feb 2003
      • 39337

      #62
      Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

      And how can you tell if any of that is different this year from video?

      Are we judging how the game feels this year from what you see?
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      [OS Vets NBA 2k7 Champion]
      Now Playing: TLOU: Remastered
      Operation Sports is NOT a website for you to bitch and moan about sports gaming.
      That's not the meaning of constructive criticism.

      *Official Miami Heat Haters Club Member #1*

      Comment

      • Joey
        Pr*
        • Mar 2004
        • 1836

        #63
        Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

        I understand wanting more input in fielding, but it's been said countless times that it can't happen right now because all the animations are tied together. Not saying I don't at least partly agree with wanting that, I'm just saying there is no reason why someone should have expected that in '12.

        As far as the sprint button goes, I want no part of a turbo button in my baseball game.

        Comment

        • econoodle
          MVP
          • Sep 2009
          • 4884

          #64
          Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

          Originally posted by WAZ
          New manual fielding controls, maybe button-tapping to sprint down a gapper or beat out a bunt single, a new user interface, menus, and franchise setup (still using newspapers from MLB 06?), even just some new fanfare intro music (been that exact same orchestral theme on the XMB and title screen for years)... along with this year's ball physics and real-time TV presentation... that would definitely go a long way toward feeling like a truly NEW game while continuing to build on what already works.

          a great thread going on here, nice deep thoughts from all. no fighting.

          i thought this one would spiral out of control, but it stayed on track.
          go OS!

          Waz, these things you mentioned would go a long way towards a feeling of freshness.

          Comment

          • WAZ
            Rookie
            • Nov 2002
            • 302

            #65
            Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

            Originally posted by Pared
            And how can you tell if any of that is different this year from video?

            Are we judging how the game feels this year from what you see?
            No no, not from the video. I'm basing that on the Community Day feedback and previews (I've heard the "molasses pit" is a little smaller -- as is the case generally every year -- but still no real manual fielding, except maybe in RTTS). And as I said, the '12 demo is yet to be released, which will let me see for myself. But from all I've heard, it doesn't sound like something "game changing" like manual fielding, which could really change the feel of the game, has made its way in yet.

            And we've seen the interface in screenshots. It's still serviceable and they've made some tweaks, swapped in brighter colors last year... but it's still the same general GUI we've had since MLB 06 or so. Not a huge deal, to be sure... but if we're looking for some reasonable, non-overhaul style things to make the game FEEL fresh and "new", these could definitely help. That's all I'm saying.
            "60% of the time, it works every time."

            Comment

            • Cavicchi
              MVP
              • Mar 2004
              • 2841

              #66
              Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

              In regards to the thread title, my answer is yes. I am not interested in online play or DD. I don't think that fellow Dave meshes well with Matt Vasgersian. There needs to be more lively interaction between the two announcers. While some people can play with the commentary turned off, I am not one of them. There are people who go to a baseball game and listen to the radio for commentary.

              I find playing a baseball game without commentary extremely lacking. There is a reason networks try to hire the best announcers available. Even when watching baseball on TV, the announcers are important. A top-notch broadcast team adds much to the game of baseball, live or console, in my opinion.

              The biggest addition for me this year is pulse pitching, but from what I've seen of it, I'm not so sure it will be all that good. A pulsating circle may be annoying to watch over time. I would have preferred an expanding circle that expands once and you have to hit it at the largest point.

              Comment

              • Pared
                Legen - WAIT FOR IT
                • Feb 2003
                • 39337

                #67
                Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                Originally posted by jp121272
                The biggest addition for me this year is pulse pitching, but from what I've seen of it, I'm not so sure it will be all that good. A pulsating circle may be annoying to watch over time. I would have preferred an expanding circle that expands once and you have to hit it at the largest point.
                I felt the same way. It was actually the opposite however... the more you used it, the less you noticed it. Strange, I know.

                Originally posted by WAZ
                No no, not from the video. I'm basing that on the Community Day feedback and previews (I've heard the "molasses pit" is a little smaller -- as is the case generally every year -- but still no real manual fielding, except maybe in RTTS). And as I said, the '12 demo is yet to be released, which will let me see for myself. But from all I've heard, it doesn't sound like something "game changing" like manual fielding, which could really change the feel of the game, has made its way in yet.

                And we've seen the interface in screenshots. It's still serviceable and they've made some tweaks, swapped in brighter colors last year... but it's still the same general GUI we've had since MLB 06 or so. Not a huge deal, to be sure... but if we're looking for some reasonable, non-overhaul style things to make the game FEEL fresh and "new", these could definitely help. That's all I'm saying.
                Fair enough - good points that I'm sure would be useful. However, I still don't understand the comments from some of this nature based on the video. I guess that's what I'm looking for here.
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                [OS Vets NBA 2k7 Champion]
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                Operation Sports is NOT a website for you to bitch and moan about sports gaming.
                That's not the meaning of constructive criticism.

                *Official Miami Heat Haters Club Member #1*

                Comment

                • bayman
                  Rookie
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 359

                  #68
                  Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                  Waz you should be a politician. In one breath you say they shouldn't scrap the engine and then all of your suggestions are things that would require scrapping/overhauling the whole engine. Do you really not see this?

                  Comment

                  • Cavicchi
                    MVP
                    • Mar 2004
                    • 2841

                    #69
                    Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                    Originally posted by Pared
                    I felt the same way. It was actually the opposite however... the more you used it, the less you noticed it. Strange, I know.
                    I hope the same is true for me. I'm really looking forward to using pulse pitching.

                    Comment

                    • jmik58
                      Staff Writer
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 2401

                      #70
                      Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                      Waz -- I think you have some solid points for areas of improvement, but ball physics is a HUGE development if it pans out as advertised. Improving the fielding experience would be a game changer as well. I'm not picking apart your explanation, but I have to disagree that there is a lack of gameplay advancement on a monumental scale. It doesn't get much bigger than getting the ball to act realistically.

                      Comment

                      • WAZ
                        Rookie
                        • Nov 2002
                        • 302

                        #71
                        Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                        Originally posted by Joey
                        I understand wanting more input in fielding, but it's been said countless times that it can't happen right now because all the animations are tied together. Not saying I don't at least partly agree with wanting that, I'm just saying there is no reason why someone should have expected that in '12.
                        I didn't really expect it for '12... it was more like '09, '10, and '11.

                        Honestly though, I know what you're saying and I've heard that same thing for years. I get that. And maybe I'm one of the few in the world who the fielding bothers this much... and (for all The Show does right) maybe I'm in a minority who likes the fielding better in High Heat 2002, MVP 05, and even the MLB 2K series. But after the pitcher/batter confrontation -- which The Show nailed a long time ago and is one of the biggest reasons I still love this game -- fielding is such a huge, integral part of the game. To see it reduced to mostly spectating (even on Assist, it's fairly Automatic) has just bothered me for years... so yeah, after five years I've sort of been hoping to see it addressed more.

                        But that's just me, and I get there are other things they've focused on (i.e. Vita development this year = still no new franchise mode yet)... I understand that, and as much as the fielding bugs me I'll still buy '12. But the point was, "What could be done to make the game feel new without blowing the whole thing up and building a new engine from scratch?" I think fielding should definitely be focused on to bring it up to par with the pitcher-batter duel.

                        Originally posted by Joey
                        As far as the sprint button goes, I want no part of a turbo button in my baseball game.
                        To each his own. I think it would add something -- simulating a player putting it in "second gear" in key situations, and making it even more interactive. But again that's just me and will probably never happen anyway... but that's beside the point. I don't want to turn this thread into debating wishlist ideas. Just throwing out ideas that could be added on to the current base without arbitrarily scrapping it.

                        The "stale" vibe has started to crop up in the reviews the past year or so, too. There's lots of ideas out there, and I think the point being made by some people is that it would be nice to see a BIGGER leap next year, to see some things that really are new and fresh and different. Keep the same engine and keep building -- but think bigger and less subtle.
                        "60% of the time, it works every time."

                        Comment

                        • WAZ
                          Rookie
                          • Nov 2002
                          • 302

                          #72
                          Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                          Originally posted by jmik58
                          Waz -- I think you have some solid points for areas of improvement, but ball physics is a HUGE development if it pans out as advertised. Improving the fielding experience would be a game changer as well. I'm not picking apart your explanation, but I have to disagree that there is a lack of gameplay advancement on a monumental scale. It doesn't get much bigger than getting the ball to act realistically.
                          I agree -- I look forward to seeing the new physics in the demo. Those alone WILL add to the fielding already, so that's definitely good.
                          "60% of the time, it works every time."

                          Comment

                          • econoodle
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2009
                            • 4884

                            #73
                            Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                            Originally posted by Pared
                            No, I get you. Put it this way - how does a 9 year old vet. get pumped for a new season? It's still baseball - there is no fresh coat of paint or new set of tires - just baseball. Same comparison here.
                            How is that the same thing, if I am understanding correctly?

                            Ike Davis doesn't show up to camp in the spring and gets told there are new physics this year. or playable A teams, or a new look to the overlays when he comes up to bat.

                            Then again Davis probably doesn't get told anything, i think when the Mets show up to camp everyone stands around going, what do we do now?


                            But, if you are comparing real baseball to the Show in terms of it being just what it is each year, not much to get excited about, I don't know.
                            I probably am misreading it a bit.
                            Still fun to go through this thread anyhow.

                            Comment

                            • Heroesandvillains
                              MVP
                              • May 2009
                              • 5974

                              #74
                              Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                              Originally posted by Pared
                              No, I get you. Put it this way - how does a 9 year old vet. get pumped for a new season? It's still baseball - there is no fresh coat of paint or new set of tires - just baseball. Same comparison here.

                              You have the chance to say what you think here - what would you like to see where you don't feel that way? I think no matter the game, once you have a good base, should you scrap it just so it feels fresh or do you want it keep trying to portray the sport as accurately as possible?

                              Basically, just give me your thoughts. It's easy to say it looks the same... but I'm interested in expectations that can formulate into tangible evidence. Outside of commentary/audio... what do you expect to see that would lead you to not feel as you do?
                              I know there's a thumbs up feature, but I thought this post deserved it's own personalized gift wrapped 'shout out.'

                              This is the kind of post I'd like to see more of on OS. A healthy discourse amoungst people that enjoy the series. Asking for elaboration in an unthreatening manner. All around, very well written.

                              Thumbs way up!!!

                              Comment

                              • Pared
                                Legen - WAIT FOR IT
                                • Feb 2003
                                • 39337

                                #75
                                Re: Conjecture: From what we've seen, will MLB 12 miss an opportunity for a huge leap

                                Originally posted by econoodle
                                How is that the same thing, if I am understanding correctly?

                                Ike Davis doesn't show up to camp in the spring and gets told there are new physics this year. or playable A teams, or a new look to the overlays when he comes up to bat.

                                Then again Davis probably doesn't get told anything, i think when the Mets show up to camp everyone stands around going, what do we do now?


                                But, if you are comparing real baseball to the Show in terms of it being just what it is each year, not much to get excited about, I don't know.
                                I probably am misreading it a bit.
                                Still fun to go through this thread anyhow.
                                Definitely mis-reading.

                                Let's say they re-do franchise, add in a new commentary group and address all that people say are "holding this series back." They add full manual fielding at the expense of animation smoothness and the perception of idle animations. What are we left with?

                                Baseball. The sport hasn't really changed in the last 20 or so years... so imagine a video game that FULLY represented the sport scientifically in all ways... where do you go from there? Does the sport of baseball feel they need to reinvent themselves every single year? Why should a successful game franchise do the same "just to feel fresh?"

                                Some of you are asking for change... just because. Do you watch a broadcast and wish things were different? To be honest, you can watch a video from a broadcast 4 years ago and see little difference.

                                Now apply it to a video game. There were fundamental changes for the better that you can't really see in a video. You can't see the improved hit variety from 3 or so games. You can't see the improved throwing from a video.

                                I'm basically asking that people say what they would like to see to make a successful game series fresh short of scrapping everything. That's just not viable - Madden did that and the game was worse off. Triple Play did it because it was a necessity and thus we get MVP. The Show isn't even close to where they need to "scrap everything" just to feel fresh... and I'm at a loss to how you do that without losing the things that people DO enjoy about this game.

                                Edit - Why are you so interested? Didn't you just post that you decided to buy another game instead of this one?

                                For someone not buying this title, you sure do seem to post here a lot.
                                Last edited by Pared; 02-23-2012, 05:07 PM.
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