This game CHEATS...

**Brando70** · 05-30-2012, 11:55 AM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Those are good points, and I do think there is some good discussion here. But at the same time, The Show has two things that real life does not:

1) A mental disparity between the teams. It's humans vs. AI. We have some tremendous advantages over the AI, but also some big disadvantages such as getting rattled, nervous, or not being able to recognize a changeup as well.

2) Pitcher confidence that has an undue influence on outcomes. Relievers in particular are really susceptible to wild swings in confidence. As I mentioned before, because strikeouts really boost confidence, I do think the AI has an advantage as it tends to strike out less.

What I disagree with is that the AI has some innate advantage on default All-Star. I have played this game every year on default AS settings since the 2009 version. I have had moments where I felt like the game decided it was my turn to suck, most noticeably in MLB 11 where a red-hot Carlos Marmol (who was rated highly) lost the ability to throw strikes that weren't meatballs. But like I said, I see the CPU both suffer from and benefit from many of the same things I suffer from and benefit from.

**Heroesandvillains** · 05-30-2012, 11:55 AM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Chrishthomas,

Thank you for the detailed timeline and history. This will undoubtedly add a lot to the discussion.

But, you also make some presumptions in there. You seem to imply that this late inning comebacks phenomenon happens too frequently in this year's The Show.

I've yet to see someone post franchise stats supporting this (other than a CPU runs to innings study by Nomo17K). Would you or anyone else care to tally it up from within their Franchise/Season? I'm not doubting some people are getting beat late in games. But someone please post the evidence so we can analyze it and possibly determine why it's happening).

I'll gladly calculate mine tonight; which will support that nothing out of the ordinary is happening in my baseball world.

How about yours?

**Brando70** · 05-30-2012, 11:58 AM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by Cavicchi

There is no reasonable strategy for setting OF shallow with no one on base for Joey Votto or any other hitter with power. And, the same is true for setting OF deep for a weak hitter.

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm saying that I see the same thing happen with my hitters against the AI. The debate is over whether the AI cheats, not whether it is strategically sound.

**chrishthomas** · 05-30-2012, 12:06 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

H&V,

Good point, and I should have made it more clear. I think a lot of the frustration about comebacks comes from people who are experiencing them at a higher-than-average rate (but again, that is an assumption). I'm sure there are players who think that once they build a lead, they should never lose it.

For myself, I don't know that I have had it happen disproportionately. But, I've played several full 162 game seasons (playing every at-bat) and I think I have gotten better and smarter over time.

I do know that I blew a 4 run lead in the ninth last week due to some strange twists (along with a bone-headed videogame baseball move on my part to try to salvage the win--the type of play that might have work in the ol' RBI BASEBALL days but not on The Show). But, I think that might have been the only time it has happened.

I know some of my saves seem to have been by the skin-of-my-teeth, but in the end I won. I'll go back and check my stats for the whole season. And see what I come up with. My thinking is that is won't be quite as rare as MLB trends, but that it won't be inordinately high either. And, again, if I were winning every game at will, there is no reason to continue playing, so I am not upset about the way the game plays, I just try to understand where other players come from with their own experiences.

**Cavicchi** · 05-30-2012, 12:17 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by Brando70

I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm saying that I see the same thing happen with my hitters against the AI. The debate is over whether the AI cheats, not whether it is strategically sound.

I referred to strategy because you said to me "But watch the CPU set its fielders and you'll see the same thing. You could make an argument about the strategy behind it, but again, the CPU does many of the same things for itself that it does with the human team."

The post you originally replied to expresses my feelings on the topic at hand.

**PsychoBulk** · 05-30-2012, 12:41 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by Cavicchi

There is no reasonable strategy for setting OF shallow with no one on base for Joey Votto or any other hitter with power. And, the same is true for setting OF deep for a weak hitter.

Its not what you think.

Ive figured it out.

If theres a weak hitter up with little power, the CPU will set your OF to shallow, correctly...unfortunately this then "sticks" on shallow for the next guy (or deep, same issue), hence why a no.2 hitter with little power will be set to shallow and it then "sticks" on shallow for the no.3 power guy, in this case Votto. After this it will revert back to normal.

Essentially, whenever the CPU places your OF'ers shallow or deep, it doesnt reset them for the next guy, as it should be doing, i do all my shifts manually, this is how i learned of the problem.

So its not any sort of pre-determined code for the CPU to try and get some runs, it is, yep, you guessed it....a bug.

Nothing more sinister than that.

**chrishthomas** · 05-30-2012, 12:51 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

^ That's definitely worth noting.

**Heroesandvillains** · 05-30-2012, 12:58 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Psychobulk, I'm assuming that's the case with CPU fielding too?

**Cavicchi** · 05-30-2012, 01:07 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by PsychoBulk

Its not what you think.

Ive figured it out.

If theres a weak hitter up with little power, the CPU will set your OF to shallow, correctly...unfortunately this then "sticks" on shallow for the next guy (or deep, same issue), hence why a no.2 hitter with little power will be set to shallow and it then "sticks" on shallow for the no.3 power guy, in this case Votto. After this it will revert back to normal.

Essentially, whenever the CPU places your OF'ers shallow or deep, it doesnt reset them for the next guy, as it should be doing, i do all my shifts manually, this is how i learned of the problem.

So its not any sort of pre-determined code for the CPU to try and get some runs, it is, yep, you guessed it....a bug.

Nothing more sinister than that.

Did I say it was sinister? Have I even said I'm terribly bothered with it? And, no, I do not see what you describe as happening.

I've also experimented. I have played against my team. The CPU set my OF shallow for Matt Kemp but had deep for previous batter Andre Ethier.

There is also the SS scene I mentioned previously.

If the first batter is a weak hitter, the CPU will more often than not set OF Normal. Shallow is used more for pitchers.

**raneman85** · 05-30-2012, 02:27 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Liitle Parody here: Last night, my son's pony league team blew a 7 run lead with one out and a blown call by the ump. We ended up winning in extra. At the end of the fiasco inning one of the kids throws his glove and yells, "It's like playing the Bleeping Show". The expletive was ignored by the ump. Cracked me up. Another kid states, "Ya the game cheats." His Dad (Chris), another coach and a colorful guy, heres the cheat comment and yells at him that nobody is cheating you guys f-ing blew it (two expletives heard by the ump.) The kid explains to his Dad that they were referring to The Show and not the game.

Dad (Chris), has his back to the ump (who also thinks the kid is complaining about the blown call) and has now walked over to our dugout to give us a vocabulary warning. Chris yells "we're playing baseball and you knuckleheads are talking about a bleeping video game?" He turns around sees the ump and says to him "Do you believe they're talking about a video game?" The ump by now has heard the conversation does an about face without saying a word and walks away.

We score and my kid comes in to close. My son walks the first batter on 5 pitches. He's nervous and I'm pacing. Coach Chris (great with the kids) yells to my boy "Hey Jonesy does your RTTS guy throw strikes?" It loosens my kid up and he blows away the next two batters before he gets the next next guy to bounce out. We apologize to ump after the game for the language and thank him for his tolerance. Ump goes that's ok I was feeling bad because I blew the call that almost cost you the game.

**PsychoBulk** · 05-30-2012, 04:05 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by Cavicchi

Did I say it was sinister?

Er....yes, i think you did, in not so many words...

Originally posted by Cavicchi

The most likely reason that I see is the CPU wanted Votto to get a hit so it set my OF shallow.

Originally posted by Heroesandvillains

Psychobulk, I'm assuming that's the case with CPU fielding too?

Yes, i believe so.

**KingV2k3** · 05-30-2012, 06:46 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by WeWereGiants

I have never rage quit more with a video game than I have with this one

On a lighter note:

Thank you for finally giving me a term for those games that either get:

Restarted (VERY, very rare)

Sim to End (more often than I'd like)

Aborted (because I ripped the power cable out the back of the PS3 and proceeded to punch the couch)

Yup:

"My name is KingV2k3 and I'm prone to 'rage quit'..."

**Cavicchi** · 05-30-2012, 06:52 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by PsychoBulk

Er....yes, i think you did, in not so many words...

Yes, i believe so.

Quote my entire post and show where you think I said it was sinister.

Oh, and what about the rest I wrote in reply to you? I mean, why just clip one sentence? That would seem to indicate you agree your "theory" is not fact.

**Heroesandvillains** · 05-30-2012, 07:00 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by KingV2k3

Aborted (because I ripped the power cable out the back of the PS3 and proceeded to punch the couch

Better than the alternative of ripping something out of the couch and punching the PS3......

.........

Proud of you!

**Heroesandvillains** · 05-30-2012, 07:02 PM

Re: This game CHEATS...

Originally posted by Cavicchi

Quote my entire post and show where you think I said it was sinister.

Didn't you say that you thought that the CPU wanted Joey Votto to get a hit? And didn't he quote the relevant part?

Not saying you used the word sinister (not that I read) or anything. But that's how he interpreted it. Perhaps you could clarify???

This game CHEATS...

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