This game CHEATS...

[Bobhead]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Russell, if you are still following this thread could you clarify one thing for me. I may be mis-remembering, or just flat out wrong, but I thought I read from a developer last year that if a player is using analog hitting then the PCI will be affected by the timing of their stride. At an extreme level, this would function such that a player couldn't hold down on the stick as soon as the pitcher starts his motion and then just push up if they decided to swing, or more realistically just being late or very early would also impact the PCI.

Am I wrong about reading that somewhere? And, if I'm not, could that explain the different PCI sizes (if folks are using analog hitting).

I use zone hitting, but I switch to Pure Analog or Zone-Analog occasionally. I can't really say for certain which interface I was using at any of the particular times I've seen the PCI fluctuate. So it's entirely possible I was using Analog when it happened... because I agree Russ forgot about Stride, since that's been identified before and seems like a pretty obvious candidate for the list.

[stealyerface]

Re: This game CHEATS...

The PCI doesn't shrink and grow based on the pitch count. The only factors that fluctuate the size are the batters attributes, the type of swing you use and if you guess right or wrong.

Hmm... I do not use Guess Pitch, and I have had occasions just within the past day or two where Ortiz has swung at a 1-2 fastball with a power swing, fouled it off, and the PCI on the swing feedback overlay shows the PCI as a tiny blip in the center of the strike box, and the feedback stated "Just Missed" and "Perfect".

I homered later in the at bat with a 3-2 pitch, same pitcher, same fastball, and used a Power Swing, and the PCI was significantly larger than that of the swing on the 1-2 count.

Again, using no Guess Pitch, against the same pitcher, and agains ta fastball, I know for sure that the PCI feedback circle was waaaaaaaaaaaaay bigger on the 3-2 pitch than when I was behind the count.

Why or perhaps a better question, waht is it that I am seeing that is making the difference, because they were for sure?

~syf

[NEOPARADIGM]

Re: This game CHEATS...

During the Tigers-Red Sox game yesterday they flashed the graphic:

Drew Smyly:
First 11 batters: 1 hit
Last 4 batters: 4 hits, 4 runs.

Tried to take a picture of it for comedic effect but wasn't fast enough.

Anyway it made me think of this thread.

[Brando70]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Personally I do feel sometimes things are predetermined. but I also value the info others have brought up disputing it. I prefer to think that the game isnt out to get me...lol

The other possibility is that Russell is correct, but the PCI feedback is not. If you play with zone hitting and use guess pitch, you will see the yellow PCI shrink if you guess incorrectly. It always decreases by the same size for each batter -- other than that, the PCI does not change in size while batting.

This would also explain why sometimes the PCI feedback does not seem to mesh with the results of the contact.

[LynchMob47]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Put me down as another person that believes things are predetermined in this game...

Playing as the Jays, I hit a HR with Arencibia in the bottom of the ninth to tie the game. In the top of the 10th, I get 2 quick outs with Santos....and cue the "superbatter shrinking strike zone". I end up walking Alex Liddi - with 3 of the "balls" actually being on the corners. Mariners pinch run Figgins for Liddi...and Franklin Gutierrez promptly take the next pitch - a 95mph Fastball in on his hands - into the RCF gaps for a go ahead double.

Nice...but it gets better.

Cue the bottom of the 10th...2 outs..***nners on the corners and Colby Rasmus at the plate. I fall behind in the count 1-2...Erasmo Ramirez throws a slider down and in that I time PERFECTLY...and mysterious the balls vanishes through the bat. This was the second time in the game that Rasmus K'ed on a perfectly timed pitch...that on replay showed the ball passing directly through the barrel of the bat.

Sour grapes...sure...

But I find it hard to believe the concept of "true ball physics" when this type of thing is happening in the game.

***I'm using ILiveforThis and authentic's All-Star slider set***

[Bobhead]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Put me down as another person that believes things are predetermined in this game...

Playing as the Jays, I hit a HR with Arencibia in the bottom of the ninth to tie the game. In the top of the 10th, I get 2 quick outs with Santos....and cue the "superbatter shrinking strike zone". I end up walking Alex Liddi - with 3 of the "balls" actually being on the corners. Mariners pinch run Figgins for Liddi...and Franklin Gutierrez promptly take the next pitch - a 95mph Fastball in on his hands - into the RCF gaps for a go ahead double.

Nice...but it gets better.

Cue the bottom of the 10th...2 outs..***nners on the corners and Colby Rasmus at the plate. I fall behind in the count 1-2...Erasmo Ramirez throws a slider down and in that I time PERFECTLY...and mysterious the balls vanishes through the bat. This was the second time in the game that Rasmus K'ed on a perfectly timed pitch...that on replay showed the ball passing directly through the barrel of the bat.

Sour grapes...sure...

But I find it hard to believe the concept of "true ball physics" when this type of thing is happening in the game.

***I'm using ILiveforThis and authentic's All-Star slider set***

I won't comment on anything else in your post, but devs have stated long ago that the replay is not reliable in terms of seeing exact pitch location and exact bat location. What's really happening in real time, and what's actually being calculated by the physics algorithms is all legit... but it doesn't necessarily match the outdated replay engine and the animations within it. They are working on it I'm sure, but I guess they don't see the replays as a particularly high priority.

Part of the problem is that a swing happens so fast in real time, the animation has to be re-tooled on the fly so that you can watch it in slow motion, and from other camera angles and stuff.

I know it's hard to do, but basically what I'm saying is, trust the game, not the replay.

[LynchMob47]

Re: This game CHEATS...

I won't comment on anything else in your post, but devs have stated long ago that the replay is not reliable in terms of seeing exact pitch location and exact bat location. What's really happening in real time, and what's actually being calculated by the physics algorithms is all legit... but it doesn't necessarily match the outdated replay engine and the animations within it. They are working on it I'm sure, but I guess they don't see the replays as a particularly high priority.

Part of the problem is that a swing happens so fast in real time, the animation has to be re-tooled on the fly so that you can watch it in slow motion, and from other camera angles and stuff.

I know it's hard to do, but basically what I'm saying is, trust the game, not the replay.

Fair enough comment...I can understand that the replay is not a reliable gauge. But it is a little disappointing that a perfectly timed swing (in timing mode) doesn't even make contact with the bat in a hitters hot zone.

[Cavicchi]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Fair enough comment...I can understand that the replay is not a reliable gauge. But it is a little disappointing that a perfectly timed swing (in timing mode) doesn't even make contact with the bat in a hitters hot zone.

Sometimes it's best not to have a perfect swing. I swung very early on a fastball, picture below, and it went for a home run! Pitch info said early and replay verified it.

[cpic1]

Re: This game CHEATS...

No doubt there is something with this game that is fishy. Don't get me wrong, I love playing this game. But everygame that I play is a one run game, and way too many of them go to extra innings. Pretty much, no matter how many runs I score, the CPU scores either one less or one more. Usually when either myself or the CPU makes a comeback, there are errors that help the comeback out. This morning I was up 8-3 in the 9th inning. 4 errors later the game was tied.

[Niekro4President]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Those are good points, stealyerface. I remember that setting to which you refer, and I always played with it on.

I have wondered about The Show in that regard. I have often started games with a pitcher who usually lights up the strike zone and I can paint on the black consistently, but on seemingly random occasions I can't find the zone. I'll have trouble just putting fastballs in for Ks (now, if I'm willing to throw it right down the middle I can get it in, but if I'm trying to hit corners, forget it).

Ran into that in Game 3 of my NLDS (no I haven't made it that far in '12 yet, I'm finishing off an '11 season before I get into '12). Walked Jimmy Rollins on 4 straight to open the game, got Polanco to pop up a pitch that he should have creamed, but then I go down 2-0 on Utley, manage to get fastball--that should be pronounced meatball--by him that he was clearly intending to take. Miss the next fastball down. And, on 3-1, I'm not giving in, I try a change up low and away, but despite what appeared to be a good release according to the meter, the ball went straight down the pipe, and subsequently went straight out of the park. The rest of the game was a struggle for this guy, but I muddled through. When I changed pitchers in the 5th, I had none of these problems.

Anyway, I've had situations like this and have wondered about what you are describing. Most times, I chalk it up to my thumb movements not being as precise one night versus another (I'm tired, I'm not concentrating, I'm distracted, etc.), but it could be something like the "variable stuff."

Also, I've heard it discussed, but never had a definitive understanding of this. Is there carry-over pitcher confidence from game-to-game? That is, if my closer blows a save, is his confidence entering the next game lower than if he had pitched effectively in the previous game?

I ask because recently my closer struggled through an extended period. He had a few a bad outings where he barely scrapped by gave up a run or two but still got the save, blew a save but was bailed out by a ninth inning bomb, on his next attempt blew a 4-run lead and took the loss (wasn't even a save situation, but I had him warmed up prior to scoring an additional run in the 9th), and blew his next save as well. After this, I was able to work him back into normal form by putting him in some situations where he would most likely succeed. Now he seems to be back to his old self.

As exclusively a RTTS Pitcher I can confirm your theory is correct. I pitch every five days and every once in a while (even while at 99 ratings in everything) I won't be able to pitch to the corners. Some pitches will end up wide, pitches that are supposed to start outside and drift over the corner, start on the corner and drift down the middle.

It's clearly a game mechanic, because I myself have had games where "I'm not concentrating" and struck out 15 (personal best btw and I didn't even realize it was happening)

There are games where my sinker (4th best pitch, at least by game standards since it was the first pitch I bought in RTTS, despite it being maxed out at 99) is an absolutely unusable pitch, and then there's games where I use it in replacement of my cutter (1st pitch).

I do tend to think the game is a bit scripted, however there's one thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread.

Sample size.

In real life you get one game a day that you care about (your favorite team) and maybe you catch a few innings of another game, or catch highlights whatever, but that's the extent of your baseball experience for the day. A season lasts 200 days, and then it's on to the off season, and in those 200 days maybe you've gone through a lot on a personal level, graduated school, got a promotion whatever, real life stuff, so you aren't concentrating on baseball as much, you may tend to forget a few things that may have seemed significant at the time (when your closer blew a save, when your SS committed that crucial error)

In The Show (and particularly RTTS, where seasons are MUCH faster) you're absorbing several games a day that you are personally involved in. I know my RTTS games run about 30 minutes (pitching and the occasional at bat) and if I'm not doing anything that day I can bust out about 6 weeks to 2 months in a 8 hour period.

To date I've put in 7 full seasons and just started on my 8th season, 33 starts + playoffs a year and I really started playing RTTS when the first OSFM dropped....Late March I guess.

So I have 8 seasons worth of memories in a little over 2 real life months, so you might not remember that error that your 2B had in 2008 that blew the game, but I sure as well can name my SS that blew my shutout in the 2014 playoffs.

We're absorbing more games, more information over a smaller amount of time and that creates the feeling that the game is unfair or cheats, when in reality it probably doesn't happen a significant amount of time more than average.

Although when I get chased from a game after striking out 8 on corner pitches and all my hits are from pitches that ended up directly belt level and over the center of the plate I begin to wonder

[djl81790]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Don't know if I would necessarily call this cheating, but it was quite frustrating.

Just started an Indians franchise and was playing the 2nd game of the season vs. the Blue Jays at home in Manager mode. The game was tied 2-2 in the 10th and I had the heart of my order (Asdrubal Cabrera, Carlos Santana, Travis Hafner) coming up with the bases loaded and no one out.

Cabrera hit a line drive right at the SS, completely understandable, one out.

Santana takes a ball and then, without me calling for it as a manager, we run a suicide squeeze. A suicide squeeze... with my cleanup hitter... with the bases loaded... all we need is a fricken fly ball.

Santana pops up the bunt and the pitcher has his choice of where he'd like to double us up to end the inning. Bases loaded, no one out, and the heart of the order up. We don't score, because my cleanup hitter bunted.

Ended up losing in the 12th on a homer by Bautista too (his 2nd of the game).

[Bobhead]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Words

Fantastic post, Niekro. That's really all I have to say...

[Niekro4President]

Re: This game CHEATS...

Fantastic post, Niekro. That's really all I have to say...

I lurk a lot, but when I post, I try REALLY hard

[Cavicchi]

Re: This game CHEATS...

I do tend to think the game is a bit scripted, however there's one thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread.

When you say scripted, sounds like you also say predetermined. Now, if some of this is scripted/predetermined, then there are times what you do has no significant bearing on the outcome.

If I control the game and can decide what happens under certain situations, what would you call that?

Let me put it another way, suppose I play against my team and on purpose, decided beforehand, strike out. Wouldn't that be scripted or predetermined? And is that what you mean by scripted, CPU deciding beforehand, at times, what is going to happen?

[Niekro4President]

Re: This game CHEATS...

I'm not sure I follow you 100%, but I'm going to try and respond anyway. First of all my observations are vs CPU only, I don't think you controlling a second team will affect anything, however if you decide to play as your opposition instead of your own team one game, who knows what will happen to the behind the scenes dice roll.

On numerous occasions after successfully recording the first two outs of an inning, I've been victimized by a bad call by an umpire that has led to a 3 ball count or a walk or something, followed by a shortstop booting a ball, and the next guy hitting the first pitch for a homerun on a meatball pitch (or worse on a perfect pitch but they knew that it was going to be a low and outside changeup despite me saving that pitch and going against my tendencies [shoutout to H&V and nomo for my previous thread about tendencies])

And the immediate batter after the damage has been done, I'll strike out on three pitches, and these pitches are usually terrible, foot and a half to two feet outside for strike one (swinging and getting that "out in front" animation", then a change up in the dirt that nearly bounces (swinging) and then a high fastball that's a foot too high, strike 3. The whole at bat lasts nearly 15 seconds because I press X because I'm mad about the HR, but also because I know the game is going to "pay me back" by giving me the 21 points I earned for a 3 pitch strikeout.

That one instance has happened several times and if there is a way to save game logs or something I can provide photo evidence.

There's also the instance of the computer swinging at everything, but instead of crushing me, the balls get hit weakly straight to infielders. Doesn't matter the pitch, high fastball, low change up, hanging curve....its the game determining that today I'm going to pitch well, that's kinda the groove my guy is in now, my K/9 has dropped because I haven't been able to get to many two strike counts, but I did toss a CG with 97 pitches.

So by scripted or predetermined I don't mean it in a negative way, it definitely happens both ways (rapid regression towards the mean; I've also induced my share of double plays after a couple of borderline walks as well) and even I may feel victim to the sample size issue I've alluded to earlier, maybe I DON'T strike the next guy out on three pitches after a "cheap" homerun, but it sure seems like I do most of the time.

And one other thing, you're always going to remember the negative side of things more than the positive no matter what kind of upbeat "Chris Traeger from Parks and Recreation" person you may be.