I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

[seanjeezy]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

Did you ever post your method somewhere in the forum? If so, can you post a link again?

Pitch edits 2012

Here is my original post back in March:

OK so I finally finished documenting every pitch of every pitcher who pitched last year, using Brooks Baseball as my source...

These are edits based off of last year, with a few 2012 edits for pitchers who had substantial 2012 data available, added or subtracted a pitch, or are in the process of converting from reliever to starter or vice versa

Here is the spreadsheet I created, it's in alphabetical order, but you can sort it by team name, etc.

A quick primer:

How did you come up with each pitch selection? I went through every pitcher on the list and cross-checked their repertoire using my own personal methods with Brook's classifications. I take into account speed, spin deflection, RPM, charts, and scouting reports.

Why do most players' sliders have a low movement rating? What I found through in-game testing is that regardless of a pitch having a "0" movement rating, the pitch still moves. Most players' sliders move an average of 5 inches or less (most less), and high movement ratings for sliders should be reserved for guys with slow sweeping sliders. Also, movement is much more organic this year, with the pitcher's arm slot playing a significant role in determining movement direction.

Why is every pitch faster than what is listed in gameday, fangraphs, texas leaguers, etc. ? Brooks Baseball calculates speed 55ft from home plate instead of 60ft to take in account the average major leaguer's release point. Feel free to lower mph 1-2 ticks for fastballs and 1 mph for offspeed.


What about individual pitch command ratings? I have no idea how to come up with these ratings, its more complicated than strike% , I would just use SCEA's control ratings, since most edits are just to give proper movement to a pitch; if a pitch was added to a pitcher's repertoire, it was probably a 4th or 5th pitch that was not used very often, so give that pitch below average command to prevent overuse, since selection is tied to confidence which is tied to command of said pitch.

I'm not sure how or if these will be incorporated into the game, but if need be, I might consider updating the OSFM with these edits, unless MAVS wants to do it instead lol

I understand your point, but I'm curious how some pitchers would be rated for something like sinker and 2SFB. Are they clearly distinguishable in pitch f/x, when the pitcher throws both pitches? (was going to start looking at pitch f/x last summer but didn't manage to do it myself.....)

The terms are pretty interchangeable in real life, but for in-game purposes the two have to be distinguished and the only way to do it is by the amount of vertical movement. There's a pretty strong correlation between vertical movement and groundball tendencies, and we usually call pitchers who get a lot of groundballs sinkerballers, so its a natural fit. Off the top of my head, the only exception I can think of is Jared Weaver, the sinker movement in-game is perfect for him but he's a flyball pitcher, although his GB/FB % improved this year due to his increasing reliance on his sinker...

[nomo17k]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

Pitch edits 2012

Here is my original post back in March:

...

Thanks. This is useful.

[Bahnzo]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

cumminity days

Now we don't.:wink:

M.K.
Knight165

Yeah, I totally mistyped that and didn't bother to proofread, obviously. No dig meant there.

[Knight165]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

Yeah, I totally mistyped that and didn't bother to proofread, obviously. No dig meant there.

No problem.

M.K.
Knight165

[brettryantalley]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

am i off base in thinking i (and maybe i'm alone) don't care as much about what the pitch is called than i do that it reacts in a similar matter of the pitchers pitch.

aka...if the research shows that it goes this fast and breaks/moves/spins in this way and the game refers to that as a slider, but the pitcher might call it a slurve...i'm okay with it being a slider.

does that make sense?

[Knight165]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

am i off base in thinking i (and maybe i'm alone) don't care as much about what the pitch is called than i do that it reacts in a similar matter of the pitchers pitch.

aka...if the research shows that it goes this fast and breaks/moves/spins in this way and the game refers to that as a slider, but the pitcher might call it a slurve...i'm okay with it being a slider.

does that make sense?

I agree with you on that...but I would like the actual speed/breaks to be as accurate as possible.

LorneSCEA did ask for feedback in another thread.
He takes care of all the player ratings(through a program they have, I believe...but some by hand).....and he could probably use someone else helping him(meaning AT SCEA).

M.K.
Knight165

[nomo17k]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

I agree with you on that...but I would like the actual speed/breaks to be as accurate as possible.

LorneSCEA did ask for feedback in another thread.
He takes care of all the player ratings(through a program they have, I believe...but some by hand).....and he could probably use someone else helping him(meaning AT SCEA).

M.K.
Knight165

can see seanjeezy itching to raise his hand...

[seanjeezy]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

am i off base in thinking i (and maybe i'm alone) don't care as much about what the pitch is called than i do that it reacts in a similar matter of the pitchers pitch.

aka...if the research shows that it goes this fast and breaks/moves/spins in this way and the game refers to that as a slider, but the pitcher might call it a slurve...i'm okay with it being a slider.

does that make sense?

I could care less what the player calls it, and that's why my edits are based off of movement. I assign pitches based on the raw data available from the f/x system, so whatever the numbers say the pitch is, that's what it is in the game as well. The main gripe people have is velocity, and maybe fastballs (way too many 4 seams, which have zero movement in-game, when the majority of MLB pitchers have at least some movement on their fastball). Everything else is close enough that changes are minimal.

[Bahnzo]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

The main gripe people have is velocity, and maybe fastballs (way too many 4 seams, which have zero movement in-game, when the majority of MLB pitchers have at least some movement on their fastball). Everything else is close enough that changes are minimal.

Exactly. My main problem with pitcher ratings/selections is something that probably doesn't need much Pitch F/X stuff....it's velocity. Too many pitchers have a HUGE and unrealistic difference between their fastball and other pitches. You'd think this would be an easy fix, but it's something that's missed every year. It seems only "name" players get updates to their pitching arsenals as well.

I'll save my rant on 4-seam fastballs for another time.

[nomo17k]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

Exactly. My main problem with pitcher ratings/selections is something that probably doesn't need much Pitch F/X stuff....it's velocity. Too many pitchers have a HUGE and unrealistic difference between their fastball and other pitches. You'd think this would be an easy fix, but it's something that's missed every year. It seems only "name" players get updates to their pitching arsenals as well.

I'll save my rant on 4-seam fastballs for another time.

I'll just pick up the rant on 4SFB then...

I agree that it's a bit unrealistic when most pitchers throw 4SFB as their primary pitch (though it is realistic that every pitcher is capable of throwing 4SFB... it's just that when they are actually on the mound they tend to rely more on pitches with more movement, be it 4SFB or 2SFB...).

But I think this could also be remedied by giving 4SFB natural movement, rather than reassigning different pitch as primary. The issue with the Show's 4SFB (or any other game for that matter) is that the game assumes 4SFB has a "perfect" backspin, hence no lateral movement. I just confirmed this with a pitch with 3/4 delivery... IRL his 4SFB would have slight tailing movement (reason why seanjeezy's edits have a lot of RFB instead of 4SFB), but the Show actually gives the pitch perfect backspin regardless of the delivery.

Now I didn't check this with submarines... I believe different movements are used for some pitches with those deliveries. But if it's possible to assign proper spin axis depending on pitcher's arm action, that might also be a way to correct 4SFB being too straight....

Not that I think the dev team would go that route though...

[seanjeezy]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

The 4-seam fastball is by far the most common primary pitch in the MLB(almost 65%), but by my count, all but 36 pitchers were given 4-seams in the default roster, including 10 that should've been given 4-seamers. Having 96% of all pitchers throwing 4-seamers as their primary pitch seems ridiculous, but there were actually only 77 pitchers last year (10%) who don't have a 4-seam in their repertoire, so its more of the fact that the pitches are out of order.

The problem though (as many have mentioned by now) is that 99% of those 4-seam fastballs have some kind of movement, which is basically what the running fastball is in-game. I would actually prefer that SCEA keeps both pitches, with the 4-seam having little to no tail (less than 6 inches w/ gravity, which is about the width of 2 baseballs) and the running fastball having the crazy amount of run we see on tv (6-14 inches w/ gravity). Ramone did say that they would hopefully be reworking pitch movement and velocity for 2014, so all of this discussion could be a moot point in a couple of years...

[Unit303]

Re: I hope better scouting research has been done for pitchers this year

Out of order yep and other problems as mentioned. The problem in game has always been that the 2 seam is almost always slower and not accurate to speed as it should be as a main pitch. That is really the thing that bothers me though doesn't it seem like the 4 seamer has more movement in 12 or at least the slider works better?