Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

along those same lines... Could someone shed some light on the CLUTCH rating for both pitchers and hitters... does it matter?... especially in playing HEAD to HEAD OFFLINE...

It helps minimally for hitting, moderately for pitching, IMO.

Beyond your controller pulsing, it helps locate pitches and use your pitching interface in tight situation. For hitting, I believe you get a slight boost to your main hitting attributes, but nothing significant.

I rarely trained clutch for hitting in Diamond Dynasty and I still performed better in the clutch, because you get better pitches to hit with runners on if you are patient. Clutch was usually one of the last attributes I'd train. I'd always go Power, Contact, Pvis, and then discipline.

[cemprae48]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

It helps minimally for hitting, moderately for pitching, IMO.

Beyond your controller pulsing, it helps locate pitches and use your pitching interface in tight situation. For hitting, I believe you get a slight boost to your main hitting attributes, but nothing significant.

I rarely trained clutch for hitting in Diamond Dynasty and I still performed better in the clutch, because you get better pitches to hit with runners on if you are patient. Clutch was usually one of the last attributes I'd train. I'd always go Power, Contact, Pvis, and then discipline.

It seems to me that discipline is definitely a rating you can "feel" but clutch appears to be very subtle... (if it has any "feel" at all)... Thanks for confirming what I've felt to be true... Off course that doesn't mean we're right

[alabamarob]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

What is the difference between the control rating and bb/9? If bb/9 is accuracy then what is control? I thought control was accuracy?

[dingleberryfinn]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

What is the difference between the control rating and bb/9? If bb/9 is accuracy then what is control? I thought control was accuracy?

Control rating for each pitch is for in-game play;
BB/9 is for simming when other teams play each other?

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

Control rating for each pitch is for in-game play;
BB/9 is for simming when other teams play each other?

BB/9 influences a pitcher's accuracy in-game.

Then again, the last time I opened my mouth I was wrong...

[Bobhead]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

My understanding is that individual pitch ratings affect the chance of successful execution, while overall bb/9 affects your overall pitching ability in terms of location...

So a pitcher with a 0 control rating on his curveball... and with a 99 BB/9 rating... he might hang a curveball very frequently but still get it in the zone more or less where he aimed it.

But a pitcher with a 99 control rating for a curveball, and a 0 bb/9... he's going to throw some great curveballs but who knows where they will end up.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

What is the difference between the control rating and bb/9? If bb/9 is accuracy then what is control? I thought control was accuracy?

BB/9 makes the pitching interface (Pulse, Meter, Analog) easier to use. Control increases your chances of hitting your spot, pending on how well you use your meter. So a perfect pitch with a 40 control curveball will usually not his its spot and a just late/just early release can result in a pitch not even close.

BB/9 and Control both help a lot!

BB/9 definitely affects gameplay. I used to train these attribute first when making my diamond dynasty pitchers. However, it won't just magically make you not walk anyone. If you throw 4 pitches out of the zone with a bad release, BB/9 won't magically guide them into the strikezone. Some people believe this also affects borderline calls and that is not true. Each umpire has their own tendencies.

[nomo17k]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

Man knowing HR/9 not being a factor at all is for sure a nice thing to know, but it's also disappointing in that you are essentially creating a two different players for sim and gameplay engines with these attributes.

I wonder why only HR/9 is different this way, whereas H/9, BB/9, and K/9 (seem to) have effects in the gameplay.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

Man knowing HR/9 not being a factor at all is for sure a nice thing to know, but it's also disappointing in that you are essentially creating a two different players for sim and gameplay engines with these attributes.

I wonder why only HR/9 is different this way, whereas H/9, BB/9, and K/9 (seem to) have effects in the gameplay.

HR/9 doesn't seem to be a consistent enough stat to replicate. Pitchers can always control BB/9 and K/9 and generally H/9, but HR/9 can be hard to project.

It'd be extremely overpowered if it was effective. Everyone would have a 99 HR/9 pitcher and throw pitches near the middle of the zone.

[nomo17k]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

                    rating           sim                gameplay   
Player Name          HR/9     HR     IP   HR/9     HR     IP   HR/9
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Josh Johnson           80     38  197.0  1.736      7   54.3  1.160
Clayton Kershaw        79     20  205.0  0.878      7   62.0  1.016
C.J. Wilson            78     22  216.0  0.917      6   66.3  0.814
Jaime Garcia           78     24  221.3  0.976      5   53.7  0.839
Tim Lincecum           78     26  224.3  1.043      6   70.7  0.764
Ubaldo Jimenez         78     22  221.0  0.896      6   71.7  0.753
Zack Greinke           77     24  242.0  0.893      5   75.7  0.595
Chris Carpenter        77     24  218.7  0.988      5   67.0  0.672
James McDonald         76     19  190.0  0.900      5   60.3  0.746
Mike Pelfrey           75     31  209.0  1.335     11   59.0  1.678
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL:                       250 2144.3  1.049     63  640.7  0.885

                    rating           sim                gameplay   
Player Name          HR/9     HR     IP   HR/9     HR     IP   HR/9
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Brackman        48     21  183.3  1.031      5   58.7  0.767
Jordan Zimmermann      48     28  196.0  1.286      4   59.0  0.610
Tommy Hunter           47     29  208.3  1.253     10   61.0  1.475
Aaron Harang           47     30  201.7  1.339      7   61.7  1.022
Rich Harden            47     26  196.7  1.190      5   52.7  0.854
Armando Galarraga      45     27  192.7  1.261      5   48.7  0.925
Ted Lilly              45     17  219.3  0.698      8   62.3  1.155
Kevin Slowey           45     27  207.3  1.172      6   58.0  0.931
Jake Arrieta           42     35  202.3  1.557     11   60.3  1.641
Trevor Cahill          40     23  219.0  0.945     13   65.3  1.791
-------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTAL:                       263 2026.7  1.168     74  587.7  1.133

Now that Brian@SCEA gave a definitive answer I'm not going to argue otherwise, but it's kinda interesting so I post the numbers that I meant to cite anyways. It's a good exercise of when you can get fooled by statistics as well.

You see that according to the numbers above, high HR/9 pitchers gave up less HRs in gameplay overall. That's how I interpreted the attribute... (on the other hand, in simmed games you see even less effect of HR/9 attribute.... at the time I thought it was a bug/game balance issue).

But now that we *know* that HR/9 doesn't have any effect in gameplay... why did I think I saw what I saw (that is, HR/9 attributes have something to do with less HRs given up by high HR/9 pitchers)?

I think the reason could be (a) the sample size/player variation wasn't big enough, so I was just seeing a biased result and/or (b) HR/9 attribute in fact does correlate with those pitchers ability to hold/give up HRs, but what I was seeing was a correlation, not a causation.

I'm actually wishing the reason is (b), because SCEA has a reason to give those guys high HR/9 ratings... because they gave up less HRs in real life. But if the reason for their performance is not due to high HR/9 ratings, then it may be because they are given proper pitch repertoire which leads to less HRs... pitchers with pitches that sink (like sinker) tend to give up more ground balls and less fly balls, so they tend to give up less HRs.

If the reason why they gave up less HRs is indeed due to their pitch repertoire, I think that's a very nice thing.... the pitches in the game is doing what they are suppose to do.

[BrandH]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

This is gonna save me a ton of money in Diamond Dynasty Training. Seems kind of pointless that you could train it if there is ZERO effect since the is no simulating in DD.

[alabamarob]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

Appreciate the help and response. However, I am not talking about the control/confidence level of each pitch. Every pitcher has an overall control rating that is located right next to velocity, and break on each player card. So my question was about the overall control rating, and not the control rating of each individual pitch.

I now understand bb/9/ accuracy since you have explained that, but what does the overall control rating do? Is it a composite score of the control of all the pitches a person throws?

What if a player has 90 accuracy. 70 control, but then 2 pitches that he has great confidence/control over? Is overall control important or is it each individual pitch?

BB/9 makes the pitching interface (Pulse, Meter, Analog) easier to use. Control increases your chances of hitting your spot, pending on how well you use your meter. So a perfect pitch with a 40 control curveball will usually not his its spot and a just late/just early release can result in a pitch not even close.

BB/9 and Control both help a lot!

BB/9 definitely affects gameplay. I used to train these attribute first when making my diamond dynasty pitchers. However, it won't just magically make you not walk anyone. If you throw 4 pitches out of the zone with a bad release, BB/9 won't magically guide them into the strikezone. Some people believe this also affects borderline calls and that is not true. Each umpire has their own tendencies.

[nomo17k]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

Appreciate the help and response. However, I am not talking about the control/confidence level of each pitch. Every pitcher has an overall control rating that is located right next to velocity, and break on each player card. So my question was about the overall control rating, and not the control rating of each individual pitch.

I now understand bb/9/ accuracy since you have explained that, but what does the overall control rating do? Is it a composite score of the control of all the pitches a person throws?

What if a player has 90 accuracy. 70 control, but then 2 pitches that he has great confidence/control over? Is overall control important or is it each individual pitch?

I don't think anyone except some devs know for sure.

I feel both BB/9 (overall command) and individual Pitch Control (individual pitch command) ratings matter in how accurate a pitcher is, but I have neither tried to test this nor read anything convincing about the attributes in the forums.

[Bobhead]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

You don't actually have an overall control rating listed when creating a player do you?

The rating you see might just be an average for easy reference. I don't recall players actually having overall control ratings in Edit/Create-a player mode.

Edit: Yeah I just checked and there's no Control rating there when creating a player. The game probably compiles all the relevant ratings and gives you an aggregate score. So for example when you're facing Cliff Lee in a game you can just check his player card and glance at that one number.

[nomo17k]

Re: Any proof that HR/9 does nothing?

You don't actually have an overall control rating listed when creating a player do you?

The rating you see might just be an average for easy reference. I don't recall players actually having overall control ratings in Edit/Create-a player mode.

Edit: Yeah I just checked and there's no Control rating there when creating a player. The game probably compiles all the relevant ratings and gives you an aggregate score. So for example when you're facing Cliff Lee in a game you can just check his player card and glance at that one number.

Okay I guess I misinterpreted that question... I think what the displays for things like Velocity, Control for a pitcher is some sort of average value.... presumable the game doesn't have enough screen estate to show those for individual pitches.