Destined to lose?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Destined to lose?

This thread should probably be closed. A few posters have mentioned they have it on good authority the developers themselves said there's no such thing as a comeback code. But, people who lose in interesting ways will never hear that.

This thread will probably become as absurd as a game comparison thread if not closed sometime soon imo.

[Cavicchi]

Re: Destined to lose?

This thread should probably be closed. A few posters have mentioned they have it on good authority the developers themselves said there's no such thing as a comeback code. But, people who lose in interesting ways will never hear that.

This thread will probably become as absurd as a game comparison thread if not closed sometime soon imo.

Since you want someone to close this thread, have you considered not looking? You know, if I lose interest in a thread, I unsubscribe.

[JTommy67]

Re: Destined to lose?

This thread should probably be closed. A few posters have mentioned they have it on good authority the developers themselves said there's no such thing as a comeback code. But, people who lose in interesting ways will never hear that.

This thread will probably become as absurd as a game comparison thread if not closed sometime soon imo.

If you read the whole conversation you'll note interesting discussions which have nothing to do with a "comeback code." I say keep it open.

[AC]

Re: Destined to lose?

If you read the whole conversation you'll note interesting discussions which have nothing to do with a "comeback code." I say keep it open.

They do have to do with scripted scenarios, at least some comments, and the developers have explicitly stated this isn't the case.

[THESHAMISASHAME]

Re: Destined to lose?

That's why I personally am NOT denying that, at times, there's some "scripted" feeling on how things happen. I want that feeling to go away. In order for the devs to do something about it, however, we somehow need to understand why and where that feeling exactly come from, and not repeating the dead horse about how there is this code that forces situation one way or another.

This is exactly the point of this thread for me and for hopefully keeping it open as I also want that scripted type feeling completely gone from the MLB series.

[Sairheart]

Re: Destined to lose?

This thread is viable because what's being said here is true, and I honestly don't see how anyone who plays this game on a high level can deny the probability based nature of how "randomness" plays out in the game. If I strike out with the previous batter and I go up 1-0 in the count in the next, I almost always take the pitch. It's not like it's a cheat code, but more often than not the next pitch will be one that you AT BEST foul off, and if you take it the game sometimes rewards you by calling what appears to be a called strike a ball.

If you go up 2-0 in the count, put on your power swing and have a terrible hack...even if you ultimately go up 3-1, you shouldn't swing because the game will punish you for that first pitch. I'm not saying it dooms the ab, I'm saying you better go contact only on that first 3-2 and maybe you can grind out a walk. Even then, more likely than not, you'll end up hitting the ball hard but right at somebody. All because of that bad swing when you were up 2-0.

Again, it works both ways, even though it's more often to your detriment. Say you're pitching, you've been mixing your stuff up, you give up a flare or a seeing-eye with a fastball in a good spot. If you got RIGHT BACK to the fastball, but in a different spot(same spot if it's low and away against a good hitter) will often reward you for not being afraid to go back to that pitch and you can often get a called strike, or a take on a pitch that crosses the middle of the plate.

Coversely, if you get into a bad sequence and throw let's say a two seamer in a predictable place and give up a hard hit, in the next ab, if you go right back to the two seamer it will either be a ball, hit hard, just off the plate, or in the zone and not called a strike. The game will penalize you for not knowing better. Like someone was saying earlier, if you do what the game "deems you should do" in a certain situation, you will be rewarded. If you give up the lead in one inning, and your 3-4-5 guys are up the next inning and they all go down swinging, you're basically dead in the water momentum wise and events will unfold that will eventually lead to a loss. Things like this need to be fixed in the next game or any superior player will feel like the game has to "cheat" to beat them.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Destined to lose?

They [the comments] do have to do with scripted scenarios, at least some comments, and the developers have explicitly stated this isn't the case.

No doubt. Not only that, but the thread title IS "Destined to lose?" as if the outcome of the game being fated or not is under debate. If destiny is NOT a predetermined/scripted outcome, then I must've misunderstood the word back in grade school.

This post is obviously not directed at anyone specifically, just at the circular nature of this thread.

Half the people are saying the game is predetermined and the other half are saying there are no scripted outcomes--just random fluctuations in a small sample--obviously there is no middle ground. Because once we slip into saying it even *feels* scripted, that means we don't believe the developers at their word.

Anecdotal evidence, with people biased one way or another doesn't seem strong enough. So...around and around we go. People that feel cheated will continue to do so. People who appreciate randomness in a game and how your *strategy* actually does affect the outcome (if you are willing to accept that) will never agree to "scriptedness." Say a player *always* gets a hit off of you, well you can decide to walk him. That's your choice. If you try to nibble and get beat, that's another choice you can make. Sometimes, as has been mentioned a few times, people get beat on their best pitch or their best hitter strikes out in a key moment. Well, that's baseball.

Also, I don't think the people in here are even talking about the same thing most of the time. There could be separate threads on randomness and probability, how to manage (how not to manage) a bullpen, crazy real-life game outcomes, and ratings fluctuations (hot streaks) and how those affect game outcomes. That's all in addition to people who feel cheated by the cpu, which was the original purpose of the thread it would seem. It seems like many threads in one now.

If you are not satisfied with the developers saying it's not scripted, then to properly test this hypothesis, you'll need to play thousands of games and control for conditions. How close to the TV were you? Were you distracted? In a hurry? Have to use the restroom maybe and just get this game over? Hands sweaty? Not sweaty? Were you flipping back and forth and watching The Finals? Had you predetermined whether you would swing? How many hours of sleep did you have the night before? Was your girlfriend over giving you the stink eye? What camera angle did you use? And on and on to infinity.

That's why I think if people are going to make assertions and not test them, it's not really worth discussing.

I think it's pretty simple. I don't see why someone would continue to play and exalt a game that they think is cheating them.

[THESHAMISASHAME]

Re: Destined to lose?

This thread is viable because what's being said here is true, and I honestly don't see how anyone who plays this game on a high level can deny the probability based nature of how "randomness" plays out in the game. If I strike out with the previous batter and I go up 1-0 in the count in the next, I almost always take the pitch. It's not like it's a cheat code, but more often than not the next pitch will be one that you AT BEST foul off, and if you take it the game sometimes rewards you by calling what appears to be a called strike a ball.

If you go up 2-0 in the count, put on your power swing and have a terrible hack...even if you ultimately go up 3-1, you shouldn't swing because the game will punish you for that first pitch. I'm not saying it dooms the ab, I'm saying you better go contact only on that first 3-2 and maybe you can grind out a walk. Even then, more likely than not, you'll end up hitting the ball hard but right at somebody. All because of that bad swing when you were up 2-0.

Again, it works both ways, even though it's more often to your detriment. Say you're pitching, you've been mixing your stuff up, you give up a flare or a seeing-eye with a fastball in a good spot. If you got RIGHT BACK to the fastball, but in a different spot(same spot if it's low and away against a good hitter) will often reward you for not being afraid to go back to that pitch and you can often get a called strike, or a take on a pitch that crosses the middle of the plate.

Coversely, if you get into a bad sequence and throw let's say a two seamer in a predictable place and give up a hard hit, in the next ab, if you go right back to the two seamer it will either be a ball, hit hard, just off the plate, or in the zone and not called a strike. The game will penalize you for not knowing better. Like someone was saying earlier, if you do what the game "deems you should do" in a certain situation, you will be rewarded. If you give up the lead in one inning, and your 3-4-5 guys are up the next inning and they all go down swinging, you're basically dead in the water momentum wise and events will unfold that will eventually lead to a loss. Things like this need to be fixed in the next game or any superior player will feel like the game has to "cheat" to beat them.

That would be me " The Deemer " and thanks for post its EXACTLY how I feel about how the game can break down momentum wise and even Nomo who I think knows more about the programming then most agrees about the " Scripted Feeling " needs to go away as this issue isnt just for a random few .

So the question is how do we get SCEA to address this major issue many have without it being twisted into a joke or misrepresented by improper wording ?
I mean its something you cant really track or show other then many saying the same thing different ways like it doesnt feel right and its getting to be a gamer breaker for alot of us do to momentum shifts , unseen randomness and many variables ect so it might be impossible or maybe SCEA just cant blend those Scripted Feeling things any better like Nomo mentioned

I normally wouldnt even waste my time posting on a video game but I care and this is the most incredible sports game I ever played and I love EVERYTHING about it EVERYTHING !!!! Accept for the scripted type feeling moments regardless of who it favors Hu or Cpu .

[AC]

Re: Destined to lose?

I think something that would help is less fixed animations, more dynamic animations, for things like swings and fielding.

[G3no_11]

Re: Destined to lose?

I think something that would help is less fixed animations, more dynamic animations, for things like swings and fielding.

Absolutely 100% agree. Especially for fielding. It doesn't matter if your player has 99 accuracy and have the throwing errors slider set to 1... there are some animations (specifically on double plays) that seem to always result in an error.

I think more animations would be a good start to getting rid of the scripted feeling.

[AC]

Re: Destined to lose?

I think more animations would be a good start to getting rid of the scripted feeling.

I didn't really mean it like this. I don't like the concept of animations, I think games should be dynamic. The NHL series has gotten better at this. 2k basketball has to an extent, as well. So no more set animations, if this is possible.

[TheNumber35]

I didn't really mean it like this. I don't like the concept of animations, I think games should be dynamic. The NHL series has gotten better at this. 2k basketball has to an extent, as well. So no more set animations, if this is possible.

Giving us dynamic animations would be a great way to help with the feelings of "being cheated".

The one animation that comes to mind is when the 1st or 3rd basemen reaches down and doesn't fully extend himself which allows the ball to pass through. It's not that the game is scripted, or that there's a comeback code, or anything like that...it's that we have a limited amount of animations for groundball fielding infielders which cannot always represent what's happening (much like the ball going directly through the bat on a swing and miss that people have brought up), it's honestly a limitation of the system we're building the game on. As we've stated across hundreds of threads, the show is maxed out in stuff we can put in this generation...adding more fluid animations takes up space we simply don't have right now.

[AC]

Re: Destined to lose?

As we've stated across hundreds of threads, the show is maxed out in stuff we can put in this generation...adding more fluid animations takes up space we simply don't have right now.

This is my main hope for the PS4. I really hope that next year they find some open disk space to improve on stuff like this, it'd probably lessen the complaints by quite a bit.

[Sairheart]

Re: Destined to lose?

That would be me " The Deemer " and thanks for post its EXACTLY how I feel about how the game can break down momentum wise and even Nomo who I think knows more about the programming then most agrees about the " Scripted Feeling " needs to go away as this issue isnt just for a random few .

So the question is how do we get SCEA to address this major issue many have without it being twisted into a joke or misrepresented by improper wording ?
I mean its something you cant really track or show other then many saying the same thing different ways like it doesnt feel right and its getting to be a gamer breaker for alot of us do to momentum shifts , unseen randomness and many variables ect so it might be impossible or maybe SCEA just cant blend those Scripted Feeling things any better like Nomo mentioned

I normally wouldnt even waste my time posting on a video game but I care and this is the most incredible sports game I ever played and I love EVERYTHING about it EVERYTHING !!!! Accept for the scripted type feeling moments regardless of who it favors Hu or Cpu .

I completely agree with this post. I wasn't even a member on the forums, just a long time lurker, and I joined just to post here. And for everyone pushing the "you don't realize how much of your play is affecting what's happening"....I play on Legendary, out the box..I've thrown on some sliders(don't remember which) that I've pulled off this site...I use ground up Tums as a little chalk for my thumb for when I start to sweat a little, I use a timing mechanism that involves both my breathing and lightly taking my thumb off the stick before placing it back down. I've thrown no hitters in other versions of the show, and I've blanked powerful lineups like the Tigers while on the road, getting out of jam after jam, putting down Miggy and Prince with runners on.

Trust me, I'm really good at this game. And other posters here are also very good at this game...this is how we know. Another example just yesterday that may be the end of me playing this game. First inning, I get a runner on, one out. Ground ball, they don't get the out at second but they do get the out at first, a rare occurence in itself. This is how I knew the game was going to give me an oppurtunity to score a run. Two outs, I have Robby Cano up, take the first pitch, strike. Second pitch is a passed ball, my runner advances. I get up 2-1 in the count, the pitcher throws a fast ball on the outer half, close to the corner but not quite, I put a lovely swing on it, go yard dead center. Feels beautiful, the exact kind of pitch you know a superstar like Cano can drive to center in that situation.

I strike out to end the inning and I know for a fact the cpu will tie this game before the fourth, at least. Why? Because I was going out there with my 5th starter(Nova), I was on the road, and I had won the first three games in the series comfortably(first game was close followed by a 71 and 8-1 win). The game was not going to let me go up 2-0 in this game and just cruise to the win, it's gonna turn into a slugfest.

The very next inning, they get the leadoff guy on, I don't panic. I get an out. Next batter gets a hit, first and third one out. I stay cool. Make a great pitch, inning ending double play ball at Tex...it hit magically hits something in the dirt, flys up over Tex's head and trickles into the outfield. 2-1. I know I can still get out the inning but it's just a matter of time before the lead goes. My next two frames up to bat I make nothing happen, striking out before the bottom of the fourth. First hitter is Swisher, they're best hitter. I get squeezed a bit, the count runs 3-1, I aim to throw a two seamer low, I'm on pulse pitching, close the circle as close to perfect without being pefect, the two seamer is a strike but it's higher than I want and Swisher goes the opposite way of the foul pole.

Homers don't happen off the foul pole often, but when you're whooping on the cpu, you are BOUND to see homers just off foul pole. That's how the game aims to tell you "Ohh, you were close, but it just hit the pole, thems the breaks, that's baseball." No, that's the algorithim that kicked in because I was outclassing the cpu over a stretch of time and to balance it out the game is going to give them a break whenever it has a chance. I'll grab the Show on the next-gen, but I think it's maxed out for me at this point.

[Sairheart]

Re: Destined to lose?

By the way, I simmed the rest of that game after I gave up that homer to Swisher. The result? a 16-9 win for the Indians.