Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

[Galvatron]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

Actually the way the width of the zone is called in real life is compliant with the rule book.

The entire baseball does not need to be inside the strike zone at any given time. The rules state it is a strike if "any part of the ball passes through any part of the strike zone." If a single millimeter of the baseball intersects with the strike zone or its boundaries, it should be called a strike. Umpires aren't being nice with those pitches on the black, they are supposed to call them.

And I agree with the OP, this is not really how it is represented in The Show.

I totally agree with the OP as well and I've forever wondered why this has always been the case with the game. Too many pitches on the black are called for balls far too often, even so much as being completely in the inner edge or corner of the zone. Missing the call is one thing but some of them can be downright "WTF?!", and this includes warm up pitches as well for some reason.

I'm also not convinced that these umpires have any individual zones at all really. A pitch outside for a ball can be called a strike the very next pitch in the same spot, and can happen that way pretty much from ump to ump. Hundreds of games played over the years and I just don't see it much variance at all.

[G3no_11]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

Like Galvatron said, when doing the warm up pitches, the strike zone shrinks drastically. You could get the entire ball over the plate and it can be called a ball. I just don't understand why they would program it to be like that. Especially because it doesn't resemble the strike zone the ump has been calling during the game.

I also agree with the lack of individuality of umpires calls. It just seems random to me in every game. I think that also leads to people thinking the game is "cheating" because there is no consistency at all with any ball/strike call.. it's just pure randomness.

[cardinalbird5]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

Actually the way the width of the zone is called in real life is compliant with the rule book.

The entire baseball does not need to be inside the strike zone at any given time. The rules state it is a strike if "any part of the ball passes through any part of the strike zone." If a single millimeter of the baseball intersects with the strike zone or its boundaries, it should be called a strike. Umpires aren't being nice with those pitches on the black, they are supposed to call them.

And I agree with the OP, this is not really how it is represented in The Show.

So basically what I said lol. If you look at strikezone charts, the umps call a lot more pitches even off the strike zone too. There is 0 chance that happening in this game.

[tanchl]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

I absolutely agree with the OP. 13 is the first year I have gone on standard, but still see so many pitches not called, which is very frustrating.

On the other hand, standard has allowed me to be more selective as a hitter, unlike variable, which pretty much made me the hack-monster I am.

This I live with. It gives me something to chirp about.

[braves_94]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

Name one major league umpire that can call a precise strike on a pitch that is 1mm on the black.

[G3no_11]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

Name one major league umpire that can call a precise strike on a pitch that is 1mm on the black.

That isn't the point.

The point is that the umpires in the game don't give as much lee-way on pitches on the outer edges of the plate, than they do in real life.

[Jr.]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

That isn't the point.

The point is that the umpires in the game don't give as much lee-way on pitches on the outer edges of the plate, than they do in real life.

I think it's because you can't consistently hit a ball too far off the plate in this game. If there isn't part of the ball touching the strike zone, it's very rare to make solid contact.. so the umps have to miss some of those balls that catch a bit of the zone because it's very difficult as a User to tell if the ball is going to miss the zone or not sometimes.

Hopefully that made sense.

[lhslancers]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

I think it's because you can't consistently hit a ball too far off the plate in this game. If there isn't part of the ball touching the strike zone, it's very rare to make solid contact.. so the umps have to miss some of those balls that catch a bit of the zone because it's very difficult as a User to tell if the ball is going to miss the zone or not sometimes.

Hopefully that made sense.

Yeah in some of the older games you were able to at least foul off pitches well off the plate.

[G3no_11]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

Yeah in some of the older games you were able to at least foul off pitches well off the plate.

You can in 13 as well. I've had times where I was totally fooled and swung at a pitch way outside and been able to foul it off. Same with inside pitches and low pitches.

Baughn made a good point. That could be part of the reason for this. I think there should be a better ability to hit pitches that are "balls" but it could be tough to find a balance.

I don't really have a problem with pitches that are 90% off the plate, being called a ball, but I think there should be more strike calls on the pitches that are 50%-60% off the plate.

Overall, it's not a huge issue for me. Just thought I'd give my 2 cents.

[Bobhead]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

So basically what I said lol. If you look at strikezone charts, the umps call a lot more pitches even off the strike zone too. There is 0 chance that happening in this game.

Yeah I was more adding than disagreeing

[chrishthomas]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

That isn't the point.

The point is that the umpires in the game don't give as much lee-way on pitches on the outer edges of the plate, than they do in real life.

There was a discussion of this in regard to last year's game. Putting aside the variable call function for a moment, let's just focus on the strike zone as it is called in this game, and assume the setting is for accurate calls.

In real life (at least in theory and as it is written in the rules), the strike zone is a three dimensional space - it has height, width, and depth. The plate is a five sided slightly irregular pentagon (17 inches across the front, two straight sides of 8.5 inches, and two angled sides of 12 inches coming to a point in the rear).

So, to get the true shape of strike zone, imagine having home plate sitting on the ground, then taking five panes of glass and affixing them vertically along the edges of home plate and then putting another home plate on top. What you end up with is a prism of sorts (I'm not sure what a three-dimensional pentagon is called). The height of this prism varies across batters (beginning at the hollow of their knees and extending to just below their underarms).

Now, according to the rule book, a ball should be called a strike if any part of it is within the area of that prism at any point within the strike zone. If it just grazes one of those panes of glass, it is still a strike. And, to complicate matters, it doesn't have to be a strike as it crosses the front of the plate, just at some point along the depth of the plate. So, let's say a left handed pitcher throws a tight, inside slider to a left handed batter. As the ball crosses the front of the plate, it is actually outside of strike zone area (it's missing inside to the batter), as long as it breaks and moves into that strike zone area before reaching the back point of the plate, then technically it should be called a strike.

So...from the discussion last year, one of the SCEA developers said two things that relate to this. And, I hope I am remembering this correctly. First, the game determines ball/strike based on a 2-dimensional plane at the front of the plate. Where the ball crosses the front of the plate is the determining factor, regardless of any movement that occurs afterward that might end up with it being in the zone. Second, and again, I hope I am recalling this correctly. The determination of a strike is dependent on 50% of the ball being in the strike zone as it crosses the front of the plate. So, nipping the edge won't cut it if you want a strike call.

Is that completely accurate in terms of how the rules of baseball are written? No. But, as long as it is called consistently, I have no problem with it. I also mentioned in that thread that sometimes it appeared as if 50% of the ball wasn't in the zone but may have been called a strike (according to the post pitch information), and the developer responded the difference between what we see on the post-pitch information and what the cpu calculates may not be accurately reproduced visually due to slightly different perspectives and angles used for batting.

Now, you can throw all that out the window if you are using variable calls.

[chrishthomas]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

Okay, so it looks like I might have been wrong about the 50%, but in principle the idea is the same. Here is the post from Woodweaver (the lengthy thread from last year was "understanding the strike zone")


Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodweaver

With the Umpire OFF, the ball is considered a strike if the center of the ball passes within the plane of the strike zone.
Given this 2 dimensional calculation, any 3D representation's accuracy will be dependent upon the camera's angle and distance/focal length to said representation.
The 2 dimensional representation (i.e. the UI element that is displayed to the side of the batter's box/strike zone or in the Pitcher/Batter states OSD accessed via the SELECT button) will be the most accurate.

[Bobhead]

Re: Let's talk balls/strikes (not ratio)

If that's the case, the ideal solution would be to just intentionally make the strike zone wider than real life. It would perfectly even out, if you think about it. The middle of the ball would not pass through the outermost, "fake" part of the strike zone without the ball grazing the "real" strike zone.

That way SCEA doesn't need to change the "center-of-the-ball" system but can still get a realistic strike zone format in place.

Hope that made sense. Maybe I'll draw a picture lol.