OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

[drsublime]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Danny,

I'm finished with Kid Nichols but need some time to look at him. He should be on my "BigKlu" player vault tomorrow.
Thanks for your input and if you have any other players you think should be added please don't keep it a secret.

scooter.....BigKlu.....

maybe im just to young

but i have never heard of Kid Nichols.

[drsublime]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Atlanta Braves Franchise Saves Leaders
Rank Player Saves IP
1. John Smoltz 154 3395.0
2. Gene Garber 141 856.0
3. Mark Wohlers 112 386.1
4. John Rocker 83 195.1
5. Cecil Upshaw 78 409.2
6. Craig Kimbrel 58 110.2
7. Rick Camp 57 942.1
8. Mike Stanton 55 289.2
9. Don McMahon 50 344.2
10. Kerry Ligtenberg 44 266.2
Greg McMichael 44 334.0

wow Kimbrel is just about to rocker in just a tiny bit over 1 season..

also , Rockers career stats are weak, 1999 was his only really solid season

[Dannyc]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

wow Kimbrel is just about to rocker in just a tiny bit over 1 season..

also , Rockers career stats are weak, 1999 was his only really solid season

Don't forget about his playoff stats though. He has some of the most impressive postseason stats for a reliever with over 20 innings pitched without allowing a run.

[drsublime]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Don't forget about his playoff stats though. He has some of the most impressive postseason stats for a reliever with over 20 innings pitched without allowing a run.

and if playoff stats mattered that much then Bernie Williams would have been a 1st ballot Hall of Famer



(keep in mind, i spent the time to create Rocker, and i didnt not take the time to make Bernie)

[Dannyc]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

and if playoff stats mattered that much then Bernie Williams would have been a 1st ballot Hall of Famer



(keep in mind, i spent the time to create Rocker, and i didnt not take the time to make Bernie)

Oh believe me, I hate John Rocker (Mets fan). Just trying to give him some credit where it's due.

[derelictojama]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Didn't really mean to kick off the "should x player (Rocker here) be included"-- that is of course up to the roster makers and such, and I'm just happy it's being done. But it is an interesting question, which I think has been discussed a little bit earlier (I've been keeping up with most of this thread, but intermittently, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone else, just thinking): what do you do with relief pitchers? Relief pitchers being an integral part of the game is really something from the last 40 years, so how do you handle them in an all-time roster? Obviously, with an "all-time" team, that gives you a LOT of good starters to pick through, and probably only a few really good relievers per team... of that list above of Braves saves leaders, how many are worth having? Smoltz is a starter, right? That's what he won the Cy Young as. Garber, Wohlers, then you get basically to Rocker and Kimbrel. Mike Stanton (not young Giancarlo, of course, the old lefty) would be a good choice, because he really was an integral part of the team. Anyway, interesting topics, but don't let me distract you, just keep on doing good stuff!

[Dannyc]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Danny,

I'm finished with Kid Nichols but need some time to look at him. He should be on my "BigKlu" player vault tomorrow.
Thanks for your input and if you have any other players you think should be added please don't keep it a secret.

scooter.....BigKlu.....

Here are some other guys I noticed missing from the roster:
Pirates - SP Deacon Phillippe (one of the best control pitchers of all-time)
Indians - 2B Fred Dunlap (Played on the Cleveland Spiders which later became the Indians. Had one of the best seasons in baseball history in 1884).
Phillies - RF Chuck Klein



Here are other all-time greats who played on now defunct teams who never became another club:
1B - Dan Brouthers
SP - Old Hoss Radbourn

[drsublime]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Didn't really mean to kick off the "should x player (Rocker here) be included"-- that is of course up to the roster makers and such, and I'm just happy it's being done. But it is an interesting question, which I think has been discussed a little bit earlier (I've been keeping up with most of this thread, but intermittently, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone else, just thinking): what do you do with relief pitchers? Relief pitchers being an integral part of the game is really something from the last 40 years, so how do you handle them in an all-time roster? Obviously, with an "all-time" team, that gives you a LOT of good starters to pick through, and probably only a few really good relievers per team... of that list above of Braves saves leaders, how many are worth having? Smoltz is a starter, right? That's what he won the Cy Young as. Garber, Wohlers, then you get basically to Rocker and Kimbrel. Mike Stanton (not young Giancarlo, of course, the old lefty) would be a good choice, because he really was an integral part of the team. Anyway, interesting topics, but don't let me distract you, just keep on doing good stuff!

depends on the team's history, if they have enough SP and CP then there is no room for middle relief

but, take Arizona or Tampa Bay, and you'll find some middle relief in the mix because there isnt anyone to bump them.


arizona for example has greg swindell and mike morgan on the roster, who were both decent middle relief pitchers for them, but if this roster was made, say 5 years from now, they both would get bumped off by a new SP or CP most likely

middle relievers are like bench bats.. you need solid ones, but they do enough in the long run to merit serious consideration.

[Dannyc]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Didn't really mean to kick off the "should x player (Rocker here) be included"-- that is of course up to the roster makers and such, and I'm just happy it's being done. But it is an interesting question, which I think has been discussed a little bit earlier (I've been keeping up with most of this thread, but intermittently, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone else, just thinking): what do you do with relief pitchers? Relief pitchers being an integral part of the game is really something from the last 40 years, so how do you handle them in an all-time roster? Obviously, with an "all-time" team, that gives you a LOT of good starters to pick through, and probably only a few really good relievers per team... of that list above of Braves saves leaders, how many are worth having? Smoltz is a starter, right? That's what he won the Cy Young as. Garber, Wohlers, then you get basically to Rocker and Kimbrel. Mike Stanton (not young Giancarlo, of course, the old lefty) would be a good choice, because he really was an integral part of the team. Anyway, interesting topics, but don't let me distract you, just keep on doing good stuff!

Personally, I think it might make more sense to have Smoltz as the closer due to the Braves abundance of great starting pitchers. I guess it's really up to personal preference, you can always edit him yourself and put him where you want. It also might make sense to use the stamina rating on a large scale since pitchers of yesteryear were throwing so many innings, it isn't really fair to have a Zack Greinke or someone like that with a 90 in stamina.

[derelictojama]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Personally, I think it might make more sense to have Smoltz as the closer due to the Braves abundance of great starting pitchers. I guess it's really up to personal preference, you can always edit him yourself and put him where you want. It also might make sense to use the stamina rating on a large scale since pitchers of yesteryear were throwing so many innings, it isn't really fair to have a Zack Greinke or someone like that with a 90 in stamina.

Looking at the numbers, I agree. Put Smoltz at closer, starting 5 (my opinion) would be Maddux, Glavine, Niekro, Spahn and... our good friend Kid Nichols! Or maybe Burdette or Sain in his prime. Interesting that Tim Hudson is actually at #20 on the Braves all time win list with 90; but it makes sense he's on the A's, he was dominant there and has been just very good with the Braves.

As for stamina, yeah, that's an interesting issue. Niekro could (legend says) throw 200 pitches in a game, then throw on a day's rest. Kid Nichols had 475 (!) complete games. Greg Maddux had 61 (for the Braves). But Nolan Ryan seems to think that today's pitchers are just babied, that if we trained them differently, they could pitch more innings. But people seem to like this new-fangled "bullpen" thing, so I'd guess the days of the 20 complete game season, and the complete game loss, and things like that, are behind us. Maybe the old timers all get 99s and the modern guys top out in the low 90s... interesting to consider.

Personally, when I run a franchise sometimes I like to go in and bump up the stamina of every SP in MLB, just so I can pretend it's like the old days, or like Nolan Ryan is the president of every team and he's shaming the guys into going deeper into games with his patented stare-down.

[Dannyc]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Looking at the numbers, I agree. Put Smoltz at closer, starting 5 (my opinion) would be Maddux, Glavine, Niekro, Spahn and... our good friend Kid Nichols! Or maybe Burdette or Sain in his prime. Interesting that Tim Hudson is actually at #20 on the Braves all time win list with 90; but it makes sense he's on the A's, he was dominant there and has been just very good with the Braves.

As for stamina, yeah, that's an interesting issue. Niekro could (legend says) throw 200 pitches in a game, then throw on a day's rest. Kid Nichols had 475 (!) complete games. Greg Maddux had 61 (for the Braves). But Nolan Ryan seems to think that today's pitchers are just babied, that if we trained them differently, they could pitch more innings. But people seem to like this new-fangled "bullpen" thing, so I'd guess the days of the 20 complete game season, and the complete game loss, and things like that, are behind us. Maybe the old timers all get 99s and the modern guys top out in the low 90s... interesting to consider.

Personally, when I run a franchise sometimes I like to go in and bump up the stamina of every SP in MLB, just so I can pretend it's like the old days, or like Nolan Ryan is the president of every team and he's shaming the guys into going deeper into games with his patented stare-down.

The way I look at it, is that the older players have a bit of a disadvantage in a way because they had to pitch so many innings. Because of the strain on their arm they were not always pitching as fast as they were capable of. Walter Johnson was, most likely, very capable of throwing high 90's to 100 mph. It's likely that for most of his career he was holding back a bit at times because he had to conserve himself (after 25, his k/9 rates dipped a bit even though he was still near the top every year). I don't know that if Justin Verlander was pitching 371 innings, like Walter Johnson was, he would be able to throw nearly 100 mph every pitch. Because of this, I think it's fair to give the older pitchers considerably higher stamina than most contemporary pitchers. I'm not sure how much of a difference 90 vs 99 stamina is.

Not to say some modern pitchers aren't worthy, Roy Halladay and some others certainly are. Some of the default stamina ratings are a little questionable, for example Stephen Strasburg's stamina rating (if I recall correctly) in the game is almost maxed out. I don't quite understand that one. Alternatively, I suppose you could ramp up the older pitchers' velocity a bit and maybe curb the stamina. Then again, if Walter Johnson was pitching on 5 days rest he probably would be able to go out there and throw full speed every at-bat seeing how he was used to pitching every other day. It's interesting to think about, for sure.

I definitely agree with Ryan to a degree. I think once a guy's arm is done developing (and if he's not babied his whole career) he can certainly throw a ton of innings. in 1974 Nolan Ryan threw an amazing 332 innings whilst throwing in the high 90's consistently. Some guys fall off though, like his teammate J.R. Richard (even though it wasn't completely baseball related) or Tigers great Mark Fidrych which was baseball related. I guess that's what teams are so afraid of. I'm glad complete games are back on the rise though, hopefully this trend continues.

[drsublime]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Ken Griffey Sr up in the vault

[Scooter3]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Teams from BigKlu's Cave: 5/17/12




BLACK = PLAYERS

RED = NEW PLAYERS

BLUE = UPDATED PLAYERS

BROWN = PAST UPDATED PLAYERS





ORIOLES:

Charlie Maxwell.....Eddie Murray.....Frank Robinson.....
George Sisler.....Boog Powell.....Johnny Temple.....Brooks Robinson.....
Rick Ferrell.....Cal Ripken.....


RED SOX:

Oil Can Boyd.....Roger Clemens.....Dom DiMaggio.....Carlton Fisk.....
Jimmy Foxx.....Lefty Grove.....Dutch Leonard.....Mel Parnell.....
Red Ruffing.....Babe Ruth.....Curt Schilling.....Mickey Vernon.....
Ted Williams.....Smokey Joe Wood.....Dizzy Trout.....Bobby Doerr.....
Jackie Jensen.....Jimmy Piersall.....Carl Yastrzemski.....George Kell.....
Wade Boggs.....Joe Cronin.....Johnny Pesky.....


YANKEES:

Joe DiMaggio.....Whitey Ford.....Lou Gehrig.....Lefty Gomez.....
Tommy John.....Don Larsen.....Mickey Mantle.....Roger Maris.....Pedro Ramos.....Bob Turley.....Bobby Richardson.....Yogi Berra.....
Billy Martin.....
Phil Rizzuto.....Gil McDougald.....Bill Dickey.....Babe Ruth.....Bill Skowron...
Clete Boyer.....Hank Bauer.....


WHITE SOX:

Harry Hooper.....Joe Jackson.....Billy Pierce.....Dixie Walker.....Eddie Robinson.....Luke Appling.....Norm Cash.....Ken Berry.....Luis Aparicio.....
Sammy Esposito.....


INDIANS:

Albert Belle.....Larry Doby.....Bob Feller.....Bob Lemon.....Don Mossi.....
Hal Newhouser.....Bubba Phillips.....Luke Sewell.....Ralph Terry.....
Early Wynn.....Nap Lajoie.....Tris Speaker.....Al Rosen.....Boog Powell.....
Earl Averill.....Lou Boudreau.....


TIGERS:

Al Kaline.....Denny McLain.....Hank Greenberg.....Babe Herman.....
Soup Campbell.....Charlie Gehringer.....Ray Boone.....Kirk Gibson.....
Ty Cobb.....Hughie Jennings.....Pinky Higgins.....Mickey Cochrane....


ROYALS:

George Brett.....Bo Jackson.....


TWINS:

Ted Abernathy.....Doc Ayers.....Goose Goslin.....Rod Carew
Walter Johnson.....Harmon Killebrew.....Kirby Puckett.....
Eddie Yost.....Sam Rice.....Rocky Bridges.....Oil Can Boyd.....


ATHLETICS:

Jose Canseco.....Reggie Jackson.....Bobo Newsom.....Mark McGwire.....
Dick Howser.....Rickey Henderson.....Sal Bando.....Vida Blue....
Gene Tenace.....Dave Stewart.....Catfish Hunter.....Joe Rudi.....
Rube Waddell.....Eddie Collins.....Frank Baker.....
new updated Mark McGwire.....


MARINERS:

Randy Johnson.....


BRAVES:

Hank Aaron.....Johnny Antonelli.....Lew Burdette.....Gene Conley.....
Rogers Hornsby.....Eddie Mathews.....Warren Spahn.....Paul Waner.....
Johnny Logan.....Ernie Lombardi.....Bobby Thomson.....Joe Adcock.....
John Rocker.....Kid Nichols.....


PHILLIES:

John Boozer.....Jim Bunning.....Don Cardwell.....Ted Kazanski.....
Greg Luzinski.....Robin Roberts.....Richie Ashburn.....Mike Schmidt.....
Ethan Allen.....Wes Covington.....Johnny Evers.....Dutch Ulrich.....
Grammy Hammer.....Tug McGraw.....


CUBS:

Mickey Owen.....Chirlie Root.....Barney Schultz.....Hack Wilson.....
Don Hoak.....Billy Herman.....Ernie Banks.....Preston Ward.....
Gene Oliver.....Hank Sauer.....Dave Kingman.....Ron Santo.....
Mickey Owen.....


REDS:

Red Barrett.....Johnny Bench.....Ewell Blackwell.....Mordecai Brown.....
Tom Browning.....John Denny.....Vern Kennedy.....Ted Kluszewski.....
Bob Purkey.....Eppa Rixey.....Edd Roush.....John Smiley.....Frank Robinson
Curt Flood.....Roy McMillan.....Wally Post.....Joe Morgan.....George Foster..
Don Blasingame.....Pete Rose.....George Foster.....
Tony Perez.....


PIRATES:

Vern Law.....Preacher Roe.....Honus Wagner.....Cy Young.....Roy Face.....
Bob Skinner.....Roberto Clemente.....Ralph Kiner.....Bill Mazeroski.....
Pie Traynor.....Smoky Burgess.....Lloyd Waner.....Willie Stargell.....
Frank Thomas.....Manny Mota.....


CARDINALS:

Grover Alexander.....Lou Brock.....Steve Carlton.....Dizzy Dean.....
Paul Dean.....Ben Fowler.....Bob Gibson.....Mudcat Grant.....Willie McGee...
Johnny Mize.....Stan Musial.....Bobby Shantz.....Curt Simmons.....
Ozzie Smith.....Cy Young.....Mark McGwire.....Enos Slaughter.....
Red Schoendnst.....Bob Skinner.....Ken Boyer.....Whitey Kurowski.....
Joe Garagiola.....Pepper Martin.....Bob Uecker....
new updated Mark McGwire.....


DODGERS:

Roy Campanella.....Roger Craig.....Don Drysdale.....Carl Erskine.....
Jim Gilliam.....Sandy Koufax.....Clem Labine.....Tommy Lasorda.....
Wally Moon.....Don Newcombe.....Johnny Padres.....Pee Wee Reese.....
Jackie Robinson.....Duke Snider.....Dazzy Vance.....Maury Wills.....
Larry Sherry.....Sandy Amoros.....Ron Cey.....Billy Cox.....Joe Black.....
Don Zimmer.....Leo Durocher.....Carl Furillo.....Gil Hodges....
Frank Howard.....Kirk Gibson.....


GIANTS:

Felipe Alou.....Orlando Cepeda.....Alvin Dark.....Carl Hubbell.....
Juan Marichal.....Willie Mays.....Mel Ott.....Harvey Kuenn.....
Willie McCovey.....Robby Thompson.....Jim Davenport.....Buck Ewing.....



more to come.....
scooter.....BigKlu.....

[TruBluDodgerFan]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Big Klu, I have all your work thank you very much. I would love to have a Garvey made by you. BTW your Lasorda is very good.

[drsublime]

Re: OS All-Time Classic Roster (The Show '12)

Josh Gibson



I know he's not on the roster file, but we could add him as a FA... since he was the "Black Babe Ruth" (or bump a player from the Pirates since thats the closest proximity team to where he played)