Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

[Bobhead]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

I haven't actually watched much gameplay, but looking at stats, doubles/triples are quite low in my CPU games also. I have about a 4% difference in the ratio of hits to extra-base hits,

Just over 1/5th of all hits should be doubles/triples, or about 21%. I'm getting about 17%.

With that 4% difference played out over an entire season, that means a given team would get about 57 fewer doubles/triples over a season, than the Major League average.

That's a pretty big difference.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

I don't have the game yet but I was concerned when someone mentioned the baserunner AI and how the CPU doesn't take the extra base even when they can. Does changing the fielders arm strength or baserunner speed change that behavior?

I assumed the AI's baserunning was hard coded but if the base runner decides when to take another base based on the fielders arm speed/his chance of making it in safe then that sounds great

I don't think anything is really wrong with some of the new logic behind cpu baserunning. Actually I like it. It seems in years past people were upset that you could pretty much tell that the cpu knew if a ball was going to drop for a hit or be caught by an outfielder. It seems some programming was done to give the cpu runners sort of a human element to them. I'm sure that was difficult to program, but you can definitely tell some work was done.

It does appear that the cpu's decision is based on his chance to make that next base. By making slight tweaks to baserunner speed(up) and arm strength(down) you should see more doubles and less station to station running on hits.

[BrianU]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

I don't think anything is really wrong with some of the new logic behind cpu baserunning. Actually I like it. It seems in years past people were upset that you could pretty much tell that the cpu knew if a ball was going to drop for a hit or be caught by an outfielder. It seems some programming was done to give the cpu runners sort of a human element to them. I'm sure that was difficult to program, but you can definitely tell some work was done.

It does appear that the cpu's decision is based on his chance to make that next base. By making slight tweaks to baserunner speed(up) and arm strength(down) you should see more doubles and less station to station running on hits.

That sounds good. I have heard things about the CPU acting human like on defense so that would make sense. I saw in a video they changed the way players have momentum and round the bases as well

[johnriii]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

the only problem I can see, so far (default sliders) is a lack of HR's. I play CPU vs CPU exclusively, and in two full games, i've seen about 6 balls to or off the walls, but no HR's at all. now, this is very possible in real life, and considering the two teams are the White Sox and Royals, two games may not be enough of a sample, but I thought I'd post my findings so far.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

the only problem I can see, so far (default sliders) is a lack of HR's. I play CPU vs CPU exclusively, and in two full games, i've seen about 6 balls to or off the walls, but no HR's at all. now, this is very possible in real life, and considering the two teams are the White Sox and Royals, two games may not be enough of a sample, but I thought I'd post my findings so far.

Hopefully that's just a small sample size. I haven't noticed that yet. I've been doing CPU vs CPU with the Rays. In the first 3 game series against the Orioles I think there were 5 total HRs going off my memory. Weiters hit 2 in one game.

I have not played around with any hitting sliders so that was default on All-Star.

[Sweed]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

I haven't actually watched much gameplay, but looking at stats, doubles/triples are quite low in my CPU games also. I have about a 4% difference in the ratio of hits to extra-base hits,

Just over 1/5th of all hits should be doubles/triples, or about 21%. I'm getting about 17%.

With that 4% difference played out over an entire season, that means a given team would get about 57 fewer doubles/triples over a season, than the Major League average.

That's a pretty big difference.

So in simulated games the stats are a bit low? If so I'm sure it is something that can\will be tweaked in a patch. I know there are complaints the K leaders are all under 200 k's when guys are simulating seasons.

If your doubles are too low in played\watched games then I think there is a slider adjustment that can help IE "hard hit balls" or "line drive" (not sure of the slider name, game not open right now) affects doubles and triples. Or you can do what I just did (thanks to ralphieboy11's suggestion) and lower things like fielder speed and arm strength. I played one game with the adjustment and hit 2 doubles. Guys going first to third, second to home, etc looked much better. Also slow tapper to charging thirdbaseman ended in bang\bang play rather than being thrown out by 5 steps as I was previously seeing.

Had the same problems in v11 (skipped v12) with baserunners vs. fielder speed and arm strength. Had no problem fixing these issues via sliders. Don't see why that will be different in v13.

[Sweed]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Definitely experiencing some of the same issues. I've been doing some cpu vs. cpu games to sort of do an eye test. Not enough games yet to accumulate stats.

I bumped baserunner speed to 6, lowered fielder run speed to 4, and also lowered fielder arm strength all the way down to 2. I like what I've seen so far.

I think the speed in which the ball gets back into the infield on default is the problem with doubles and runners advancing an extra base on singles. That's the reason for the drastic arm strength drop.

One game played with these settings and was much happier with the results. Not sure this will end up being my final settings, need larger sample size than one game, but it is indeed a step in the right direction.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

One game played with these settings and was much happier with the results. Not sure this will end up being my final settings, need larger sample size than one game, but it is indeed a step in the right direction.

Great. Hopefully everyone can keep sharing their thoughts. Right now I don't have enough games under my belt to back anything up with stats. I'm just going on feel right now, so I understand what may look good to me might not to others.

[itbeme23]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

So you think the CPU throws too many balls? That's something I've never ever read before about this game. Not that I'm questioning you, I haven't actually spent much time with the game yet, it's just a surprising thing to read.

I was surprised at this observation as well, because the consensus seems to be that the CPU is throwing far too many strikes. I was able to get 4 games in yesterday, with three of them being at default. The CPU was consistently throwing strikes at a high 70% to low 80% clip. I was noticing the same thing with first pitch strike percentage as well. I adjusted the CPU pitch sliders to 4, 3, 3 (Control, Consistency, Strike Frequency), which is what I used last year, and it seems to have improved this issue by a significant margin.

[Greencollarbaseball]

I was surprised at this observation as well, because the consensus seems to be that the CPU is throwing far too many strikes. I was able to get 4 games in yesterday, with three of them being at default. The CPU was consistently throwing strikes at a high 70% to low 80% clip. I was noticing the same thing with first pitch strike percentage as well. I adjusted the CPU pitch sliders to 4, 3, 3 (Control, Consistency, Strike Frequency), which is what I used last year, and it seems to have improved this issue by a significant margin.

He corrected himself later, he meant strikes but was thinking about balls and typed that instead...That just sounds dirty.


Sent from that place where I'm at.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

I haven't actually watched much gameplay, but looking at stats, doubles/triples are quite low in my CPU games also. I have about a 4% difference in the ratio of hits to extra-base hits,

Just over 1/5th of all hits should be doubles/triples, or about 21%. I'm getting about 17%.

With that 4% difference played out over an entire season, that means a given team would get about 57 fewer doubles/triples over a season, than the Major League average.

That's a pretty big difference.

Thanks for providing your spreadsheet. I think it's going to take a while to get enough of a sample size. I started recording my CPU vs. CPU results and due to some good pitching performances through 6 games the overall batting average was only .235.

Overall, it does appear averages in every category will be closer to league averages out of the box this year. Great job by the dev team.

[blueduke]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Using default AS sliders I can steal bases a lot more successfully than last year. STL (me) vs SF (cpu) I stole 4 bases in 4 attempts Jay, Beltran, Holiday, and Frucal all stole on Posey.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Pretty funny moment in some of my cpu vs. cpu testing. I'm using random teams, mixing up starters 1 thru 5. Anyway, Verlander was pitching for Detroit against Minnesota. He almost threw a no hitter! The SS for the Twins broke it up with 1 out in the 9th. It was a little bloop hit too that you would rarely see in last year's version.

Pretty cool deal since the pitchers had not been dominating at all with the default sliders. Previous game was Cubs 10, Reds 5.

[volsfan39]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

I have also seen problems with the cpu around the plate to often. I took all three settings down two clicks con., cons, kfrequ. and it seemed to get better. The last game I played the cpu strike % was at 67 vs 82 in the first 3 games I played. The starter was at 65% a couple of relievers were at 70% and one reliever was at 52% so it was a pretty good mix. I walked twice and saw less first pitch strikes though they did still exist. I am also in agreement about extra base hits being low and they were last year out of the box also, but to be honest I am not squaring up the ball that great either. I did see in the first game I played default I hit one over the left fielders head which would not happen last year without adjustment. I have to say though that out of the box this is the best so far. I have had scores of 2-0, 3-2, 5-1, and 6-1 so I feel a good variety so far. I only won one of those by the way a tenth inning walk off homer by Weiters...All and all I am very pleased with this years game, it just feels better...I think with a few small adjustments this could be the best yet..

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Think Outside The Box: "Out of the Box" Discussion and Observations

Through 20 games of cpu vs. cpu results on All-Star, the strikes vs. balls percentages are basically dead on with the major league average last year.

It would probably be impossible to be as patient as some of the cpu hitters are though. I know I chase pitches much more often than the cpu does. For me to get the strike percentage to a more realistic number when I play, I would definitely need to adjust the cpu's pitching accuracy in some way.