Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Nomo, regarding walks and ball/strike ratio:

I find whenever I loser pitch control, consistency, and strike frequency, it just leads to more offense in general, but does not affect walks.

Since CPU Contact controls not just batting average but vision and discipline as well, might it be a good idea to up contact to 6 or 7, and then to drop Timing and/or Solid Hits down to 3 or 4 to compensate. I find batters chase putches out of the zone quite often, especially in deep counts, which probably has the wak stats a bit lower than they should be.

I'm a huge baseball fan and stat geek, and I so much appreciate the work you do, so thanks as always.

That's actually kind of what I've been trying to do by adjusting only Contact slider now, to see if it gives us control over Vision and/or Discipline, and then use Foul/Timing sliders to make adjustments.... The numbers so far says the slider does have a huge effect on Vision (whiff/foul rate varies very significantly), but I don't see much effect on discipline related stats (things like Swing %, O-Swing, etc.).... I wonder why this is so. It's entirely possible the slider doesn't affect discipline.

The pitcher command related sliders (Pitcher Control, Consistency, & Strike Frequency) do affect strike/ball ratio (and therefore walks), but the effect, especially Pitcher Control, is not very drastic on walks.

[Unspoken]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Hey guys love the work you are doing.. Just wondering if the slider settings on page 1 is the setting you have finally figured are the best or are there new updated ones.

[steviegolfballs]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

I have tested my final version with the first 200 games (400 team games) of a franchise season, here are the results:

AB. 13792 - 34.48 per game
R. 1747 - 4.37 per game
H. 3509 - 8.77 per game
RBI. 1676 - 4.19 per game
BB. 1251 - 3.13 per game
Ks. 2904 - 7.26 per game
2B. 671 - 1.68 per game
3B. 101 - .25 per game
HR. 354 - .89 per game
GIDP. 303 - .76 per game
E. 251 - .63 per game
SB. 247 - .62 per game
CS. 81 - .20 per game

Hrs are a touch low and triples are a touch high but they seem to balance things out. Slightly higher than MLB averages for at bats but I never get a game shortened because of rain so I think I should be a fraction higher. Runs, hits, doubles, walks, strikeouts, DPs, errors and stolen base stats are all right in the margin for error! Good mix of high and low scoring games, game plays very realistic to the eye. Didn't bother keeping track of minor stats like HBP, SF, ETC. but watching games, nothing stands out as being odd. Pitch counts appear realistic, I check them from time to time but I don't chart each game.

Slider at 5 unless noted, human and CPU are set the same:
Foul frequency 6
Solid hit 2
Starter stamina 6
Strike frequency 3
Pickoffs 0
Fielding errors 6
Throwing errors 4
Fielder run speed 1
Fielder reaction 9
Fielder arm strength 0
Wind 0

Thanks to all on here for sharing information, much of what I have has been gleaned from the work of others, especially Nomo who starts the thread. You all contributed to making my game experience better!

[KBLover]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

First I'm trying to revisit player attributes to stats conversion using simmed games, like I did with MLB 11. Only this time I think I can do it faster with a more efficient method. I heard that the player rating formulas have changed this year, so I just wanted to update the info.

I just discovered this spreadsheet so sorry for the post necro, but "What is Average?" is a question I ALWAYS find myself asking and is NEVER answered by the devs it seems. Yet, they have to have some sort of criteria/mathematical reasoning for the ratings assigned, no? Even if only for simming, which is all numbers, or the probabilities of success/events during played games at a base level/assuming good user input/control.

Just wonder if there's been any more discoveries, etc.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

I just discovered this spreadsheet so sorry for the post necro, but "What is Average?" is a question I ALWAYS find myself asking and is NEVER answered by the devs it seems. Yet, they have to have some sort of criteria/mathematical reasoning for the ratings assigned, no? Even if only for simming, which is all numbers, or the probabilities of success/events during played games at a base level/assuming good user input/control.

Just wonder if there's been any more discoveries, etc.

I've always been meaning to find out more to address some of those questions, but it's a fairly tedious endeavor so it tends to get pushed back........

But I do know this: the average ratings/stats combination can only be defined relative to the ratings of the opponents/competitions.

For simplicity, let us just talk about Contact rating (and it's pitching counterpart H/9 rating).

Just quickly glancing over the stats generated after a season (with, say, the default SCEA roster) at all three levels, AA, AAA, and MLB, you find that the league average for batting average (for example) remains about .260 or so, even though the Contact ratings for players in these levels vary so much. If you can precisely define the average Contact rating for the average batting average (about .260), then obviously this cannot be happening.

Instead, what the game does is to define the target batting average for a given Contact rating *relative to the opposing pitcher's H/9 rating.* Say a AA player has Contact = 30, AAA player Contact = 50, and MLB player Contact = 70. (I'm just making up numbers here, for the sake of argument.) They all hit .260 in their playing levels. That's only possible because the H/9 ratings of opposing pitchers also vary.... for example, if the opposing pitchers have H/9 = 30 at AA, H/9 = 50 at AAA, and H/9 = 70 at MLB, then it makes sense to think that the game is producing a .260 player *if Contact rating of a hitter and H/9 rating of a pitcher is roughly the same.

So if a Contact = 50 hitter plays against H/9 = 70 hitter, then his batting average is expected to decline from .260, which actually happens in the game. As you see, if you really want to define what an average rating is, you also need to know the other rating that counteracts the effect of that rating in question.


Again, I just made up those numbers, but this is very roughly how the ratings affect results in this game. They have meanings only in a relative sense.

[KBLover]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Ah, I see.

Contact and H/9 nearly equal relates to about a .260ish BA. Make sense.

I imagine it's the same for K/9 vs...Plate Vision? Similar ratings approximately equal the average K per Out rate?

Wonder how this works with BB/9 in played games, especially since it's dealing with distance offset there instead of "walk generated" like for sims.

Same with HR since it's been said that HR/9 really is pointless in played games...wonder what rating(s) are counteracting that (assuming contact made so we can take K's and K/9 off the table)?

This is probably where it's ridiculously insane to even attempt to figure out

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Ah, I see.

Contact and H/9 nearly equal relates to about a .260ish BA. Make sense.

I just made up the numbers in the previous post, so the exact numbers are almost surely off, but the qualitatively that's how ratings are stats are related.

I imagine it's the same for K/9 vs...Plate Vision? Similar ratings approximately equal the average K per Out rate?

Wonder how this works with BB/9 in played games, especially since it's dealing with distance offset there instead of "walk generated" like for sims.

Same with HR since it's been said that HR/9 really is pointless in played games...wonder what rating(s) are counteracting that (assuming contact made so we can take K's and K/9 off the table)?

This is probably where it's ridiculously insane to even attempt to figure out

K/9 goes against Plate Vision has been documented. And also individual Pitch Break ratings are tied to K/9 (and therefore Plate Vision) in the gameplay (but not in simmed games), I think.

Both BB/9 and Plate Discipline directly relate to walks in simmed games, but in gameplay when user is in control of player, it doesn't directly cause walks. BB/9 (and individual pitch command) affects the pitcher's ability to locate pitch, which is a factor in causing walks. Plate Discipline doesn't do much to hitter except it makes it easier to check swing... which is important in causing walks for those border line pitches where taking means a ball but swinging means a strike.

HR/9 is as you said. I don't think anything directly counteracts hitter's Power attribute, but a pitcher just needs to avoid being squared up, which he could do by better location (BB/9), having quality pitch (H/9), getting more whiff (K/9), so on and so forth... all these factors can affect batter's ability to go for the fence.

I find the game design very interesting. I don't think it's still perfect yet, but I like how the devs think generally about reproducing baseball outcomes.

It's not actually so insane to figure all this out, but it just takes time if we try to investigate all these things on a single PS3 and a game. If the gameplay engine remains the same for both PS4 and PS3, I'm actually thinking of skipping PS4 and getting a couple more PS3s just to run many The Show CPU vs CPU games in parallel. (That would really be crazy..... but that's the best way to test all these things.)

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Nomo, are you doing any cpu vs. cpu testing this year? Waiting until PS4?

It will be interesting to see if the games play differently on each system. I wouldn't think so, but I guess there are more animations on PS4, so there could be some slight differences.

[rdklein]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Nomo, are you doing any cpu vs. cpu testing this year? Waiting until PS4?

It will be interesting to see if the games play differently on each system. I wouldn't think so, but I guess there are more animations on PS4, so there could be some slight differences.

I was wondering how long before someone chimed into a Nomo thread.


I am obviously not a big poster, but I have visited this website 3-4 times a week for the past 4 years for all my sports games (and sports games are all I play)... trying to gain as much statistical knowledge as possible before implementing a set of sliders.


Few people find tendencies better than Nomo, and in my opinion, when it comes to "The Show", he is the best. Like you, I anxiously wait his return.


I will give you my "first impressions" on PS3:


A. "Quick Counts" is absolutely broken. If you desire any kind of statistical accuracy, especially in relation to pitch count, turn it off before the game begins.


B. Using Nomo's spreadsheet, along with his sliders from last year, I have simmed about 15 games in 2014.


SB% / CS % is down quite a bit.
Fly ball % is high and GB/LD% is low.


BA is down about .020


but, again, this is just one day.... a day where all #1 starters were throwing. Nomo never gave concrete stat info out until he tested a full rotation. I'm not going to jump to conclusions either... my only conclusion is: "Quick Counts" is absolutely broken. Turn it off for now.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

I've got the game on PS3 and Vita. I've done nothing but run cpu vs. cpu games on both with 14 so far.

I am not interested in using quick counts for this. I think it's a cool feature but I've been focusing on fully played games.

While it is still early I think we can make some early conclusions. The sliders used here last year should come close to replicating the similar stats. The game hasn't changed much. Most of the games I've tested so far have been with the same sliders I used last year.

Runs scored seem to be down a bit so far. Some things that could contribute to that are that errors are down, stolen bases are down, caught stealings are up. Looks like we will need to make adjustments in those areas compared to last year.

I have seen a few more home runs than last year. While I liked last year's sliders I could never get home runs up quite enough myself. Doesn't seem like it will be such a problem this year.

As far as the 'eye' test goes, the baserunner speed seems to be a tad faster on default this year. Might want to bump this down a notch but I'm going to hold off for now.

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

I just started running CPU games on default sliders. I'm just doing the baseline set, but will create a new thread when I have some more info.

As for Quick Counts, I think it's just another way of playing the game that suits the way some people play the game, and that's absolutely fine. Especially shortening the game time is one major priority, certain "sim" aspects were sacrificed to achieve the goal. It's all well understood, and it's a good thing we have options.

[BrianU]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Mr. Nomo I wrote this in Armor's thread but wanted to put it here too.

"If you look at one of the first few posts in nomos CPU vs CPU thread from last year he did a really good test to see which running speed was most realistic and found for a player rated with 50 speed that getting to 1st after bunt contact in 4.2 was the average time. He found last year that baserunner speed 5 was most accurate. I had felt playing a few games this year that the run speed was noticeably fast resulting in lots of close plays at 1st on routine grounders. I did the bunt test with Evan Longoria (Righty 50 speed) and found that at 5 I got the bag in under 3.8-9 seconds and that at baserunner speed 4 I got there in just over 4 seconds."

I'd be interested to see if you get the same results using your testing methods from last year.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

VERY early impression...

Seems we might need to fiddle with contact or timing to get batting averages up this year in cpu vs. cpu games. I normally don't like to mess with those sliders. The usual drops in control and strike frequency might not be enough this year.

Still testing. Lots of well pitched games so far.

[Heroesandvillains]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Any early inclination on whether the steal ability slider is reversed again this year?

[nomo17k]

Re: Stats-Based CPU Sliders [MLB 13 Version]

Mr. Nomo I wrote this in Armor's thread but wanted to put it here too.

"If you look at one of the first few posts in nomos CPU vs CPU thread from last year he did a really good test to see which running speed was most realistic and found for a player rated with 50 speed that getting to 1st after bunt contact in 4.2 was the average time. He found last year that baserunner speed 5 was most accurate. I had felt playing a few games this year that the run speed was noticeably fast resulting in lots of close plays at 1st on routine grounders. I did the bunt test with Evan Longoria (Righty 50 speed) and found that at 5 I got the bag in under 3.8-9 seconds and that at baserunner speed 4 I got there in just over 4 seconds."

I'd be interested to see if you get the same results using your testing methods from last year.

My view on using sliders to make adjustment like this is that the game stats are more important than how close the players/ball actually move on the field. If I find some glaring shortcoming in how the game plays in terms of the stats department, going by the physical measurement like that would be useful (because the game for the most part plays in real-time speed...). Well we'll see...

VERY early impression...

Seems we might need to fiddle with contact or timing to get batting averages up this year in cpu vs. cpu games. I normally don't like to mess with those sliders. The usual drops in control and strike frequency might not be enough this year.

Still testing. Lots of well pitched games so far.

I'm seeing similar trend so far, but I just got out of aces and with the top of rotation guys pitching, I am holding off any judgement. I've bitten myself way too often by not being patient before.

Any early inclination on whether the steal ability slider is reversed again this year?

I haven't gotten there yet... but it looks like there are quite a bit more steal attempts and caught stealing so far... so we might know soon.