BABIP and BB issues

[KBLover]

I'm trying to settle on some sliders of my own and two things are really just getting on my nerves. Well, three, but I think one is a reflection of another issue.

Issue 1: BABIP. I'm the Nats using the OSFM Hybrid v2 rosters. Right now, we're leading baseball with a .299 team BA. Last game, had a BABIP of .384. The game was close, won 4-2 behind Strasburg lighting it up, but that kind of BABIP is just constant. In one wild win that was 7-4, Zimmerman gave up 13 hits in 6 innings with 10 Ks. BABIP was like .550 or some nonsense. Game was pressure packed and I had to dance through danger in the bullpen, but still...

Not just lucky bleeders or anything like that. Much of the game, the outs were largely forcefully hit, Span beat out a 10-foot tapper (happens, I know, and he's quick) and several line drives.

I'm going to keep lowering Solid Hits and Timing as I can only figure that's what to do aside from making fielders run too quickly and ruining differences in fielding ability.


Issue 2: Walks are just not there on either side, though I'll usually walk one or two (sometimes more if my guy is having a bad day), but the CPU pitcher just doesn't throw a lot of balls and both pitchers are often 70% strikes.

I'm always trying to take pitches, especially early on, and trying to work the count/work walks. But the CPU keeps pouring in strikes so I can only wait so much.

The problem is that if I lower control, too many GOOD pitchers are throwing crap down the middle. That actually makes the BABIP issue worse as guys throw with like AA location. Of course, those balls will get tattooed. If I lower consistency, then where's way too many pitches flying all over the place like they are throwing blindfolded. Not just missing by some inches where a guy can't nip the corner or throws a splitter too much in the dirt, etc. Sigh.

Should I lower control and just further gimp the hitting on both sides? Should I lower consistency and just suck up all the ridiculous wildness?

If it matters, I use Classic pitching and Timing hitting. I want to influence the player ratings as little as possible with my "stick skills".


The third issue is a lot of K's, but I think that's part of the too many strikes issue, so I'm putting that on hold for now until there's more walks and/or lower strike %.

Thoughts welcome.

[cammy3399]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

I've had similar issues and am currently working on the BABIP. However the BB issues can be remedied if you use classic pitching with control/constitency at 4, atleast for the user. I've been getting walked enough by CPU to not change what I currently have it set at.

[nomo17k]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

Which difficulty levels are you playing at for hitting and pitching??

[KBLover]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

@nomo - Whatever the default is. I had no idea if difficulty mattered with custom sliders or not - and I don't know what the effects of difficulty are, so I just left them.

@Cammy - I'll try the consistency/control at 4 on both sides and see how it goes.

[nomo17k]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

Well the default difficulty levels depend on which profile you used when you first started the game. Go look the gameplay setting and see what they are set. Before messing with sliders, you should find the right difficulty levels for your skill level. I bet you are playing on a lower difficulty level(s) than your skills can take. I'd go back to the default sliders, bump up the difficulty and see how you feel.

[KBLover]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

Well - I see one issue thanks to your advice - the game had me on Rookie and, unless that's the default when first making a profile...WTF. NEVER would have thought I was on Rookie.

So that should help with the hitting side. Probably will go with 3 at timing and see (was getting down to 1). I'm going to leave solid hits lower for now as there does seem to be a LOT of line drives and deep fly balls in the game.

Pitching - that's on Veteran. I think lowering my control a bit and tinkering with the CPU's solid hits might solve my issues. I don't want to make bad days by pitchers completely pathetic all the time (and the game already seems to have a bias against relievers, even good ones).

BTW - is strike frequency any bearing on this? I put it at 0 thinking to make me not just go up expecting a strike and just first-ball swing with impunity as well as not always being in a 0-1 hole 24 out of 27 times or something. Didn't seem to impact anything, though. No real change in strategy, etc?

[nomo17k]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

...

So that should help with the hitting side. Probably will go with 3 at timing and see (was getting down to 1). I'm going to leave solid hits lower for now as there does seem to be a LOT of line drives and deep fly balls in the game.

I would still recommend to go back to default if you haven't done so at a higher difficulty level. You will naturally see less line drives and hard hit balls in general at higher difficulty level, so it might be that you were trying to correct what Rookie was designed to do by your slider adjustments, which may not be necessary now.

Pitching - that's on Veteran. I think lowering my control a bit and tinkering with the CPU's solid hits might solve my issues. I don't want to make bad days by pitchers completely pathetic all the time (and the game already seems to have a bias against relievers, even good ones).

I would still suggest bumping up a difficulty level first if you feel you need to make that much slider adjustments on Veteran. It's easier and likely less adjustments will be necessary that way.

BTW - is strike frequency any bearing on this? I put it at 0 thinking to make me not just go up expecting a strike and just first-ball swing with impunity as well as not always being in a 0-1 hole 24 out of 27 times or something. Didn't seem to impact anything, though. No real change in strategy, etc?

Before messing with Strike Frequency (and/or Pitcher Control/Consistency), I would first try to see if you can play realistically on All-star level. CPU pitchers pitch realistically on or above All-star (meaning your hitting difficulty needs to be set at All-star or above), but anything lower, they throw quite a bit more strikes (obviously to help you hit).

[jr86]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

Try these on a star hitting.

Cpu consist 4
Control 4
Strike frequency 2

This should help with your chance to draw walks

[KBLover]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

I would still recommend to go back to default if you haven't done so at a higher difficulty level. You will naturally see less line drives and hard hit balls in general at higher difficulty level, so it might be that you were trying to correct what Rookie was designed to do by your slider adjustments, which may not be necessary now.




I would still suggest bumping up a difficulty level first if you feel you need to make that much slider adjustments on Veteran. It's easier and likely less adjustments will be necessary that way.




Before messing with Strike Frequency (and/or Pitcher Control/Consistency), I would first try to see if you can play realistically on All-star level. CPU pitchers pitch realistically on or above All-star (meaning your hitting difficulty needs to be set at All-star or above), but anything lower, they throw quite a bit more strikes (obviously to help you hit).

Cool - I'll try All-Star for both and go back to 5's for the timing and such.

Thanks for you advice, nomo (I loved Nomo as well, thought about creating him as a prospect in my A-ball and see if I can't get him to be good like he was in real life )

[Bobhead]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

BABIP

Solid Hits and Power are the biggest contributors to BABIP. Don't think Power is only relevant on long fly balls. Where you have the Power slider will literally make the difference between a bouncing ground ball that the shortstop scoops up, and a line drive into shallow left field. It adds power to ALL batted balls, across the board. That means more hits penetrate the infield, more hits penetrate the outfield, and more hits that are "too fast" for fielders to deal with.

I'd actually say Power affects BABIP MORE than Solid Hits does, because of all this. A fly ball with power at 7 is more likely to be a hit than a line drive with power at 2. Think about that.

You seem to already understand how Solid Hits affects BABIP, so I won't elaborate too much here.
Lowering Timing may actually be hurting you, since I've found decreasing Timing to actually increase BABIP. Think of a dartboard. Lowering timing (or contact), among other things, is akin to trimming the outer ring of a dartboard off, without changing the size of the bullseye in the middle.So with Timing at, say, 1, you have a pretty small dartboard, and the bullseye makes up like 80% of the entire board. So assuming you don't miss the board entirely (strikeout), you have a pretty good chance of hitting the center (getting a hit).

-------------------------------
Walks
This is a pretty controversial issue lol, so I hope you're ready for a flurry of conflicting opinions...

I'm not going to pretend like mine holds any more weight than anyone elses or anything. I'm just going to offer my own thoughts and let you make your own decisions.

Public Service Announcement over, I'll point out a few things:
Real life pitchers are not as accurate as you may think. Look up the strike percentages on full counts, walk percentages with bases loaded, and other such things. You might be surprised. The lack of control from lowering sliders might shock you at first, but over time I think you will appreciate how much more natural things feel.Also you won't get chaos every game. Ratings still come into play. I've been completely dominated a few times now.

Also of note, if wild pitches and passed balls are bugging you with decreased pitching sliders (as they should), you can lower the fielding errors slider by a point or two and see a pretty big change there.

I'm inclined to think that lowering pitch consistency is more beneficial than lowering pitch control, for the reasons you outlined (meatballs and such), but really I've lowered both in my own game.

Don't underestimate the importance of the Strike Frequency slider. Nor should you underestimate the consequences of overreaching with your sliders. I do not have any evidence, but I have a strong suspicion that when you lower control, consistency, or strike frequency too drastically, the pitching AI tries to over-compensate, and the results are not always what you may have desired. Make sure to always work in 1 point increments, before dismissing a slider as "not helping."

---------------
Strikeouts

You didn't really give much information here. Pitch Speed? Swinging strikeouts? or Taken ones? It's a pretty big difference. A high whiff rate is an entirely different issue from the inability to recognize pitches, or the over-ability (is that a word?) of the pitchers to throw strikes.

[Bobhead]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

Sorry for the double post but this is an entirely separate thought. I now see you said you are playing on Rookie.

Difficulty level has a huge effect on gameplay, and among other things, low-level pitchers are programmed to intentionally throw a lot more strikes.

Basically you will see the game play more naturally as you increase the difficulty level. So I agree with nomo, set the sliders back to default and first see how you do on All-Star before trying to make changes.

[KBLover]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

BABIP

Solid Hits and Power are the biggest contributors to BABIP. Don't think Power is only relevant on long fly balls. Where you have the Power slider will literally make the difference between a bouncing ground ball that the shortstop scoops up, and a line drive into shallow left field. It adds power to ALL batted balls, across the board. That means more hits penetrate the infield, more hits penetrate the outfield, and more hits that are "too fast" for fielders to deal with.

I'd actually say Power affects BABIP MORE than Solid Hits does, because of all this. A fly ball with power at 7 is more likely to be a hit than a line drive with power at 2. Think about that.

From this, it sounds like power simply equals "velocity off the bat" not so much "increased HR" (though that's also possible if the batter sends one in the air to the outfield).

In that case, you're making perfect sense and I'm understanding what you're saying.

Lowering Timing may actually be hurting you, since I've found decreasing Timing to actually increase BABIP. Think of a dartboard. Lowering timing (or contact), among other things, is akin to trimming the outer ring of a dartboard off, without changing the size of the bullseye in the middle.So with Timing at, say, 1, you have a pretty small dartboard, and the bullseye makes up like 80% of the entire board. So assuming you don't miss the board entirely (strikeout), you have a pretty good chance of hitting the center (getting a hit).

That's a very interesting way to look at it and is certainly not how I was thinking of it, so thanks for that visual image with the dartboard.

Walks
This is a pretty controversial issue lol, so I hope you're ready for a flurry of conflicting opinions...

Oh yeah - I dealt with Madden sliders and that's never a shortage of opinions and theories

Public Service Announcement over, I'll point out a few things:
Real life pitchers are not as accurate as you may think. Look up the strike percentages on full counts, walk percentages with bases loaded, and other such things. You might be surprised. The lack of control from lowering sliders might shock you at first, but over time I think you will appreciate how much more natural things feel.Also you won't get chaos every game. Ratings still come into play. I've been completely dominated a few times now.

Also of note, if wild pitches and passed balls are bugging you with decreased pitching sliders (as they should), you can lower the fielding errors slider by a point or two and see a pretty big change there.

Fielding errors? Makes sense though since a PB/WP is a "not caught" ball by the catcher - just another one of those "it doesn't just do what it says on the tin" example of sliders.

Good point with the accuracy - it just seems like guys were missing by more than the width of the plate - like if I wanted Strasburg to throw a couple inches outside with his four-seamer, he's nearly hitting the guy - a miss of what would be like 2 feet. I know guys miss location, sometimes badly, and Strasburg is no Maddux, but still...I don't see many major leaguers nearly hit guys on pitches they are trying to throw outside.

That said, I played a game last night with 4 control and consistency (on All-Star pitching) and it wasn't all that bad. Some dirt balls and bad misses, but they were realistic - like outside a couple inches turned into way outside or catching too much of the plate - or a high fastball that wasn't high enough and the hitter fouls it, etc.

I'm inclined to think that lowering pitch consistency is more beneficial than lowering pitch control, for the reasons you outlined (meatballs and such), but really I've lowered both in my own game.

Hmm...you've given me an idea. Moderately high control with moderately low consistency - something like 7 Control, 3 Consistency. Guys can locate both in and out of the zone, but flubs still can occur, especially when there's not a lot of command there.

Don't underestimate the importance of the Strike Frequency slider. Nor should you underestimate the consequences of overreaching with your sliders. I do not have any evidence, but I have a strong suspicion that when you lower control, consistency, or strike frequency too drastically, the pitching AI tries to over-compensate, and the results are not always what you may have desired. Make sure to always work in 1 point increments, before dismissing a slider as "not helping."

Makes sense - perhaps it's impacting location logic ("I can't locate these pitches to save my life, better not work the edges" - and then there's more hittable pitches) and such.

---------------
Strikeouts

You didn't really give much information here. Pitch Speed? Swinging strikeouts? or Taken ones? It's a pretty big difference. A high whiff rate is an entirely different issue from the inability to recognize pitches, or the over-ability (is that a word?) of the pitchers to throw strikes.

That's intentional because I think it's a secondary issue to what I was doing with the other sliders. I might have been getting too many 0-2 trying work the count because the pitchers weren't trying to work me as a hitter, etc. Like you saw, the game put me on Rookie, so that explains a LOT.



I had a couple good games like night. First was a win 2-0 where Gio Gonzalez had a no-hitter! It was tough in the 9th, though, because his stamina was wearing out and I was stretching him to try to get the no-no. In fact, he walked B.J. Upton, walked another guy, before getting a fly out in foul ground (deep to RF at that).

The second game was a loss 6-2. Tim Hudson wasn't sharp early, but we could only get a couple runs (one on an Ian Desmond HR). Harper walked twice, only K'd 6 times, got 8 hits. Hudson got it together as the game went on and that was brutal.

Braves won it, though, thanks to Dan "Guy-I-can't-pitch-with-for-some-reason" Haren giving up 6 in the 3rd. Jason Heyward hit a grand slam, and Haren was getting pushed around. Managed to get another 1 1/3 out of him, then had to pull his sorry behind. 4 1/3, 6 R. Ouch. I don't know what it is with Haren and me. Jordan Zimmerman is the same way - just can't work well with him for whatever reason so far.

Meanwhile, Nats couldn't hit. Few squandered opportunities in there as well. Both bullpens were awesome so 6-2 early became a 6-2 final.

BABIP for both teams was .230. Both teams walked twice, neither team K'd more that 6 times. Felt much better.

Odd looking sliders with the hitting - went 7 contact, 3 power, 1 timing, 3 solid hits on All-Star hitting. Was sorta like the dartboard principle you mentioned with the contact helping offset the timing mistakes, timing allowing for changing speeds deception.

Given your awesome breakdown, I might push power up to 4 and solid hits to 4, and see how that works. If the rest stays good and the BABIP comes up some, I might have found my sweet spot.

Oh, and given BABIP is a lot based on defense (or lack of) - what's a good recommendation for fielder run speed and reaction? I want to have to be concerned about fielding, using defensive replacements, trading for/developing/drafting fast guys with good gloves for outfielders, etc.

[itbeme23]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

I would still recommend to go back to default if you haven't done so at a higher difficulty level. You will naturally see less line drives and hard hit balls in general at higher difficulty level, so it might be that you were trying to correct what Rookie was designed to do by your slider adjustments, which may not be necessary now.




I would still suggest bumping up a difficulty level first if you feel you need to make that much slider adjustments on Veteran. It's easier and likely less adjustments will be necessary that way.




Before messing with Strike Frequency (and/or Pitcher Control/Consistency), I would first try to see if you can play realistically on All-star level. CPU pitchers pitch realistically on or above All-star (meaning your hitting difficulty needs to be set at All-star or above), but anything lower, they throw quite a bit more strikes (obviously to help you hit).

I agree with Nomo on this. Adjusting sliders takes a great deal of understanding and patience. Sliders that may work on say, All-Star, probably won't work on lower difficulty levels like Rookie or Veteran, and vice versa. Now that you know that you were playing on Rookie, I think your first step should be finding a difficulty level that suits your playing abilities, and start adjusting sliders from there, if necessary.

I was adjusting hitting sliders for over three months on All-Star level until I finally realized that I just couldn't hit on All-Star this year. So I moved down to Veteran, adjusted my hitting sliders a little bit (which are now COMPLETELY different from what I was using on All-Star), but the biggest changes I've made have been to the CPU Pitching sliders. Like Nomo mentioned, the CPU tends to pound the strike zone on lower difficulty levels, so there is naturally a higher offensive output by the human due to there being more pitches to hit. My slider set is built around getting accurate CPU first pitch and overall strike percentage at a realistic rate.

[the_riot]

Re: BABIP and BB issues

For a few years now I have lowered control and raised consistency. Seems to work out alright.