WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

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  • WaitTilNextYear
    Go Cubs Go
    • Mar 2013
    • 16830

    #46
    Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

    Originally posted by BegBy
    Looking through these edits I just see way too many straight changes and inaccurate repertoires. Sorry, but I had to say it. Lance Lynn throws a slider. I watched him throw sliders tonight and I've watched him throw sliders in the past. You say it's a cutter. It is not a cutter. There is no room for argument here and if Brooks says it's a cutter well, then they are wrong. Brooks is wrong a lot. Felix throws a circle change. He has for his entire career. Just the other night against Toronto they stopped the film and showed his grip, whilst talking about how he's explained his grip, and it was a circle change. I just see so many straight changes, 4 seamers, normal curveballs, etc. Corey Kluber throws the filthiest slurve in baseball. It is quite literally the perfect literal and physical definition of a slurve pitch, yet you have him throwing a slider and a straight change. He throws a nasty circle change. It's almost as filthy as his slurve. I could go on with pitchers from every team but I digress.

    Going only by Brooks will get you about 50/50 at best. Anyone who watches baseball and knows what pitches are will see it right away and I'd hate for other makers to be discouraged because this one is out when they could finish up.
    1. Lance Lynn does throw a slider but it's his 6th most used pitch at 0.76% usage over the last 2 years according to Brooks Baseball. We only have 5 slots, so I went with the more utilized pitches. Just because a guy saw a guy throw a pitch once doesn't really elevate it's usage %. It's also probably hard to tell his slider and cutter apart with the naked eye since they're pretty similar only being about 3 mph and a couple inches of break apart.

    2. Felix probably does throw a circle change (but I've heard many call it a split as well) as do many others...almost nobody throws a straight change going strictly by the grips. However, I set the dividing line at anything with less than 8 in of lateral movement as a straight change to better jive with the game's representation of pitches. Felix doesn't have nearly as much fade on his offspeed pitch as others who throw a circle change. Honestly, I think it's best to classify it as a splitter due to the velocity (89.5 mph) being off the charts for a changeup in the game. You can always make your own edits.

    3. Good call on Kluber and the slurve. I think I will reclassify that one to be a slurve. I generally think the slurve is useless in this game since most pitchers have pitches that are more like sliders or sweeping curves in the game, but slurve matches Kluber best.

    4. Kluber's changeup doesn't move laterally enough for me to call it a circle change. So that's staying a straight change. You have to take into account how pitches move in the game as well--the grip means absolutely nothing to this video game.

    5. As for your comment about Brooks Baseball being 50/50 at best, I'd much prefer to go by Brooks Baseball and people that actually do this for a living than by randoms watching mlb.tv for several reasons. One of which being it's human nature that people tend to overemphasize small samples and games they saw here and there while PITCHf/x is tracking ALL of the pitches ALL of the time.
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    • big_tone91
      Rookie
      • Oct 2011
      • 86

      #47
      Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

      I think I may have watched every one of Lynn's MLB starts. It is most deff. a cutter not a slider that he predominantly throws. Just my .02
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      • BegBy
        Banned
        • Feb 2009
        • 1212

        #48
        Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

        Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
        1. Lance Lynn does throw a slider but it's his 6th most used pitch at 0.76% usage over the last 2 years according to Brooks Baseball. We only have 5 slots, so I went with the more utilized pitches. Just because a guy saw a guy throw a pitch once doesn't really elevate it's usage %. It's also probably hard to tell his slider and cutter apart with the naked eye since they're pretty similar only being about 3 mph and a couple inches of break apart.

        2. Felix probably does throw a circle change (but I've heard many call it a split as well) as do many others...almost nobody throws a straight change going strictly by the grips. However, I set the dividing line at anything with less than 8 in of lateral movement as a straight change to better jive with the game's representation of pitches. Felix doesn't have nearly as much fade on his offspeed pitch as others who throw a circle change. Honestly, I think it's best to classify it as a splitter due to the velocity (89.5 mph) being off the charts for a changeup in the game. You can always make your own edits.

        3. Good call on Kluber and the slurve. I think I will reclassify that one to be a slurve. I generally think the slurve is useless in this game since most pitchers have pitches that are more like sliders or sweeping curves in the game, but slurve matches Kluber best.

        4. Kluber's changeup doesn't move laterally enough for me to call it a circle change. So that's staying a straight change. You have to take into account how pitches move in the game as well--the grip means absolutely nothing to this video game.

        5. As for your comment about Brooks Baseball being 50/50 at best, I'd much prefer to go by Brooks Baseball and people that actually do this for a living than by randoms watching mlb.tv for several reasons. One of which being it's human nature that people tend to overemphasize small samples and games they saw here and there while PITCHf/x is tracking ALL of the pitches ALL of the time.
        I absolutely agree with everything you said, as I already said it's just my opinion. I am basing said opinions off of what I see though. In that Toronto game where he almost hit Bautista...that had insane fade as most circle changes do.

        Thanks again for your work.

        Comment

        • WaitTilNextYear
          Go Cubs Go
          • Mar 2013
          • 16830

          #49
          Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

          Originally posted by BegBy
          I absolutely agree with everything you said, as I already said it's just my opinion. I am basing said opinions off of what I see though. In that Toronto game where he almost hit Bautista...that had insane fade as most circle changes do.

          Thanks again for your work.
          Now that I've opened Pandora's Box by reclassifying Corey Kluber from slider to slurve, I am seriously tempted to change Felix's offspeed from straight change to a splitter. The pitch that I normally see from Felix goes almost straight down. For reference, the pitch we're both talking about has an average velocity of 89.68 mph, 6.21 inches of arm-side fade (way less than the average circle change) and only 1.32 inches of backspin (a full 7 inches less backspin than his 4-seamer).

          Felix's pitch actually matches up quite nicely with Tanaka's splitter in both velocity and movement: Tanaka's splitter that nobody really questions is actually a splitter has an average velocity of 87.16 mph, 5.08 in of armside fade and 1.69 in of backspin.

          Certainly if you want to look up a picture of Felix gripping the pitch, you'll see the familiar circle change grip, but it moves more like a splitter.

          I don't want to venture too far out into the wilderness and just go crazy with reclassifying my reclassifications on Brooks' reclassifications of PITCHf/x data, but if a compelling case can be made...
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          • grgmths1433
            MVP
            • Apr 2007
            • 1936

            #50
            Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

            Are these pitch edit ls design for PS4? I am on PS3, so are the numbers the same when we manually inputting these edits in? I read somewhere that ever click is 0.02%. Is that correct? Thanks.
            PSN: Dreamchaser_865

            MLB- Milwaukee Brewers
            NFL- Green Bay Packers
            NBA- Milwaukee Bucks

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            • Mikeyo918
              Pro
              • Oct 2010
              • 530

              #51
              Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

              Are these in the vault?
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              • PhilliesFan13
                Banned
                • May 2009
                • 15651

                #52
                Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                Originally posted by Mikeyo918
                Are these in the vault?
                Not yet. 55 is working on them in OSFM V2 and others are just manually inputting the edits themselves. I already started my franchise with V2, so I am inputting the edits as I play each team.

                Comment

                • grgmths1433
                  MVP
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 1936

                  #53
                  Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                  Originally posted by PhilliesFan13
                  Not yet. 55 is working on them in OSFM V2 and others are just manually inputting the edits themselves. I already started my franchise with V2, so I am inputting the edits as I play each team.
                  Have you noticed some pitchers only have two pitches in the spreadsheet. I believe he has to have at least 3 pitch types in the game.
                  PSN: Dreamchaser_865

                  MLB- Milwaukee Brewers
                  NFL- Green Bay Packers
                  NBA- Milwaukee Bucks

                  Comment

                  • PhilliesFan13
                    Banned
                    • May 2009
                    • 15651

                    #54
                    Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                    Originally posted by grgmths1433
                    Have you noticed some pitchers only have two pitches in the spreadsheet. I believe he has to have at least 3 pitch types in the game.
                    Give them a third pitch similar to their type 1 pitch and cut the control in half and movement at 0.

                    For example if a guy has just a 4 Seam FB and Slider listed I will give him a 2 Seam FB with control half of what the 4 Seam FB was and make the movement 0 so they almost act as the same pitch.

                    Pretty much anyone with only 2 pitch types should have a fastball part of it.

                    Method might not be for everyone but 55 talked with me about it and I agreed that it seems fair to do. Again, all personal preference though.

                    Comment

                    • grgmths1433
                      MVP
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 1936

                      #55
                      Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                      Originally posted by PhilliesFan13
                      Give them a third pitch similar to their type 1 pitch and cut the control in half and movement at 0.

                      For example if a guy has just a 4 Seam FB and Slider listed I will give him a 2 Seam FB with control half of what the 4 Seam FB was and make the movement 0 so they almost act as the same pitch.

                      Pretty much anyone with only 2 pitch types should have a fastball part of it.

                      Method might not be for everyone but 55 talked with me about it and I agreed that it seems fair to do. Again, all personal preference though.
                      Are PS3 clicks are the same as PS4?
                      PSN: Dreamchaser_865

                      MLB- Milwaukee Brewers
                      NFL- Green Bay Packers
                      NBA- Milwaukee Bucks

                      Comment

                      • PhilliesFan13
                        Banned
                        • May 2009
                        • 15651

                        #56
                        Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                        Originally posted by grgmths1433
                        Are PS3 clicks are the same as PS4?
                        Shouldn't be any different.

                        Comment

                        • grgmths1433
                          MVP
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 1936

                          #57
                          Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                          Pitches edits makes a big difference in the game. I love this game!
                          PSN: Dreamchaser_865

                          MLB- Milwaukee Brewers
                          NFL- Green Bay Packers
                          NBA- Milwaukee Bucks

                          Comment

                          • DarthRambo
                            MVP
                            • Mar 2008
                            • 6630

                            #58
                            Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                            Originally posted by PhilliesFan13
                            Not yet. 55 is working on them in OSFM V2 and others are just manually inputting the edits themselves. I already started my franchise with V2, so I am inputting the edits as I play each team.
                            What happened to his thread? And is he using v2.1 and WTNY's pitch edits or edits from the other guy?

                            I may just do what you are doing and input them as I play each team. However I read there is a problem when adding the circle change it changes the velocity settings of every other pitch?? 55 spoke of it and it sounded confusing...don't want to mess it up and not realize so I planned to just wait. But I don't mind entering them as I go through my season doing 2-3 teams per calendar day on the game.
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                            • Jason_19
                              MVP
                              • Aug 2006
                              • 1713

                              #59
                              Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                              Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
                              1. Lance Lynn does throw a slider but it's his 6th most used pitch at 0.76% usage over the last 2 years according to Brooks Baseball. We only have 5 slots, so I went with the more utilized pitches. Just because a guy saw a guy throw a pitch once doesn't really elevate it's usage %. It's also probably hard to tell his slider and cutter apart with the naked eye since they're pretty similar only being about 3 mph and a couple inches of break apart.

                              2. Felix probably does throw a circle change (but I've heard many call it a split as well) as do many others...almost nobody throws a straight change going strictly by the grips. However, I set the dividing line at anything with less than 8 in of lateral movement as a straight change to better jive with the game's representation of pitches. Felix doesn't have nearly as much fade on his offspeed pitch as others who throw a circle change. Honestly, I think it's best to classify it as a splitter due to the velocity (89.5 mph) being off the charts for a changeup in the game. You can always make your own edits.

                              3. Good call on Kluber and the slurve. I think I will reclassify that one to be a slurve. I generally think the slurve is useless in this game since most pitchers have pitches that are more like sliders or sweeping curves in the game, but slurve matches Kluber best.

                              4. Kluber's changeup doesn't move laterally enough for me to call it a circle change. So that's staying a straight change. You have to take into account how pitches move in the game as well--the grip means absolutely nothing to this video game.

                              5. As for your comment about Brooks Baseball being 50/50 at best, I'd much prefer to go by Brooks Baseball and people that actually do this for a living than by randoms watching mlb.tv for several reasons. One of which being it's human nature that people tend to overemphasize small samples and games they saw here and there while PITCHf/x is tracking ALL of the pitches ALL of the time.
                              Originally posted by WaitTilNextYear
                              Now that I've opened Pandora's Box by reclassifying Corey Kluber from slider to slurve, I am seriously tempted to change Felix's offspeed from straight change to a splitter. The pitch that I normally see from Felix goes almost straight down. For reference, the pitch we're both talking about has an average velocity of 89.68 mph, 6.21 inches of arm-side fade (way less than the average circle change) and only 1.32 inches of backspin (a full 7 inches less backspin than his 4-seamer).
                              I wanted to let you know that I was really excited to see that you had completed these pitch edits and I'm really excited for 55 to input them on the O.S.F.Mv2 set, but after reading both of those comments, you clearly know your stuff and I'm even more pleased with these edits.

                              I don't have the interest to do pitch edits like I used to and with Sean having not posted, I was wondering if there would be a legit set of pitch edits. So, I'm really glad to read those comments.

                              To clarify, if other people have made their own sets of pitch edits and released them to the public on the newest version of The Show, that's not a knock on them because I haven't viewed any other sets of pitch edits on that version.
                              Last edited by Jason_19; 05-28-2015, 02:08 PM.

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                              • 55
                                Banned
                                • Mar 2006
                                • 20857

                                #60
                                Re: WTNY's 2015 Pitch Edits ( Please read the FAQ )

                                I've got around a third of these inputted into OSFM v2.1 so far...

                                Just a heads up.

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