The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

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  • WaitTilNextYear
    Go Cubs Go
    • Mar 2013
    • 16830

    #226
    Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

    If I could just stick my nose in a bit where it doesn't quite belong to add some perspective...After all TheGame is referencing the 'incident' we had when making the Hybrid roster back in 2015.

    As far as giving (for free) the community a "calculator" to use, that's really a luxury. I think many of us who have seriously considered and edited ratings before have our own personal "calculator" which is really just a glorified Excel sheet where you can type a stat into one box and have a rating pop out in another. I have my own calculator and have for 3 years now. It turns a wide variety of projections, defensive stats, and potentials into ratings but I haven't had the inkling to make it public and frankly probably never will. In that sense, people should be grateful that TheGame even wants to share his work and go through all the trouble of supporting it for guys on PC's and guys on MAC's and guys who are noobs at using spreadsheet programs and guys who need to call the Geek Squad over just to turn their machine on. Or guys that will make it a point to disagree with you over methodology and do it in the most uninformed and disagreeable way possible. Who wants to build a calculator and spend time dealing with all that? Not me. Not most people.

    Now, about the sharing of work on OS--we found out the hard way a couple of years ago what "the community" can do if you let them do whatever with your work. We made a massive spreadsheet in 2015 and made it public in the spirit of letting people on OS look up salary info, age, service time, ratings, pitch edits, etc etc you name it for their own projects. And about 2 weeks after, while we were in the throes of making the Hybrid roster (we had threads up and everyone knew we were already doing it), there was one particularly impatient OS member--no need to bring out any names or anything--who essentially tried to grind his way through our ratings spreadsheet by himself and release his own roster, which he interestingly called....Hybrid.

    This guy didn't really address any of the other things/details we normally would've--making a good roster is a very intensive process with many small details that most don't even notice--and naturally people were confused for basically the rest of the summer about what roster was what. We went back and forth with this guy and asked him to retract his roster from the vault, which he eventually did. But, by then the damage had been done in the sense that OS members were somewhat permanently confused about what to download. So we spent the next few weeks, in addition to already working way too much on the real Hybrid roster, dealing with people's questions and confusions over the proliferations of these fake rosters that had come back to bite us after being "too giving" with our data.

    Now, dear OS reader, maybe you think I'm the jerk after reading through that poignant story, and I don't particularly care, but I totally agree with the current Hybrid team's reasoning on this. And this is something "the community" inflicted on itself via its past actions/decisions.
    Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

    Comment

    • Daonlyjmo7
      MVP
      • May 2014
      • 1052

      #227
      Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

      How are you going to handle the lower minors guys who's stats don't exactly reflect their true talent?
      Check out my dynasty: Rise to the Top: The Coaching Career of Joshua Morgan (NCAA 14)

      Comment

      • TheGame8544
        MVP
        • Jul 2003
        • 1656

        #228
        Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

        Originally posted by Daonlyjmo7
        How are you going to handle the lower minors guys who's stats don't exactly reflect their true talent?


        Guys that a calculator simply can't properly rate since enough data isn't available are being noted and will be re-rated after all ratings for all teams are completed. Scouting data is about the only thing you can rely on there as well as our potentials formula to help with progression of the player.

        Comment

        • Gambo187
          Rookie
          • Aug 2003
          • 279

          #229
          Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

          Originally posted by rovert22044
          Question: what does TheGame owe you? Your comment splurges of self-entitlement. Punishment? Really? So let me get this straight...

          A man creates a product. He's proud of his product and decides to put it to use. To keep from others putting it to use before him, he decides to keep it private until he's done, thus, not wasting him and the editor's time. And that somehow, someway is punishment?

          My God people these days. And the fact you said no one is interested in the Hybrid roster just shows you have no clue what you're talking about. If you're not interested in the roster, then why do you want the ratings calculator that the roster is built off so bad?


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          First of all, I said not everyone not no one.

          Second of all, before you comment about self-entitlement and putting work into something, why don't you skip on over to the OOTP boards, Madden or go back and look up High Heat, Front Page Sports, NBA Live, Hard Ball and so on and so and look up my username and see the amount of Mods, Add-ons or assistance (including Beta testing) I've put in to sports video games over the years. All done for free and on my time and done out of enjoyment and nothing else but wanting to make these games more enjoyable for everyone.

          Me, like a lot of people who used to put up all this stuff for gratis, are now older and have lives that don't allow for us to put in the extent on our hobbies we used to. So simply, I, like many, don't have the time to wait 2-3 months from for the Hybrid but would still want the enjoyment of realistic rated prospects.

          Instead, what I offered is the thoughts of a compromise that keeps the intellectual value of TheGame's product without having to withhold it in it's entirety. It's a system i've seen done before and thought it would be fitting, especially since it seems that, from his posts, TheGame feels obligated to keep the propriety information on hold for the sake of the Hybrid.

          It's sad that nowadays everybody is worried about some schmuck stealing their work and it's gotten to a point where everybody is accused of trying to steal for the sake of some stupid clicks and likes that everybody else will forget about the next Tuesday. It's this type of mentality that takes a lot of the fun out of these communities.

          Perhaps next time you should consider as an attempt at a simple exchange of ideas instead of some great conspiracy.

          Comment

          • rovert22044
            OCD Roster Editor
            • Dec 2010
            • 2509

            #230
            Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

            Originally posted by Gambo187
            First of all, I said not everyone not no one.

            Second of all, before you comment about self-entitlement and putting work into something, why don't you skip on over to the OOTP boards, Madden or go back and look up High Heat, Front Page Sports, NBA Live, Hard Ball and so on and so and look up my username and see the amount of Mods, Add-ons or assistance (including Beta testing) I've put in to sports video games over the years. All done for free and on my time and done out of enjoyment and nothing else but wanting to make these games more enjoyable for everyone.

            So you believe since you did this things, you deserve the right to someone else's work? Again, entitlement.

            Me, like a lot of people who used to put up all this stuff for gratis, are now older and have lives that don't allow for us to put in the extent on our hobbies we used to. So simply, I, like many, don't have the time to wait 2-3 months from for the Hybrid but would still want the enjoyment of realistic rated prospects.

            Just because you don't have time, doesn't mean someone else does. We don't want someone using our ratings before we do. What's wrong with that?

            Instead, what I offered is the thoughts of a compromise that keeps the intellectual value of TheGame's product without having to withhold it in it's entirety. It's a system i've seen done before and thought it would be fitting, especially since it seems that, from his posts, TheGame feels obligated to keep the propriety information on hold for the sake of the Hybrid.

            So what's wrong with him wanting to hold his personal property back until the roster is released?

            It's sad that nowadays everybody is worried about some schmuck stealing their work and it's gotten to a point where everybody is accused of trying to steal for the sake of some stupid clicks and likes that everybody else will forget about the next Tuesday. It's this type of mentality that takes a lot of the fun out of these communities.

            Forget about next Tuesday? You do realize the Hybrid rosters are extremely popular here at OS, right? And the community can have free reign of the ratings calculator AFTER Hybrid is done. TheGame has the right to do what he wants with his property. Again, what's wrong with that? Not to mention if you were here for the Hybrid roster last year, you'd understand why people are so worried to release their rating methods since it was an absolute mess last year.

            Perhaps next time you should consider as an attempt at a simple exchange of ideas instead of some great conspiracy.

            I didn't see any "simple exchange of ideas". I saw you bashing a creator for not sharing his property with the almighty you. I mean, you've done so many free projects for the community, so who more deserving than you, right!?
            Answers in bold. Can't believe I actually took the time to respond to you, but why not I guess.
            Football Data Analyst @ Tracking Football
            Founder/CEO @ JUCOHub

            Comment

            • Gambo187
              Rookie
              • Aug 2003
              • 279

              #231
              Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

              Originally posted by rovert22044
              Answers in bold. Can't believe I actually took the time to respond to you, but why not I guess.
              I think you're making a lot more out of this than needs to be.

              Rovert I believe we've been part of some good discussions about rosters before here and with Madden and I value your opinion. Seemingly I've crossed a line I didn't know existed and I didn't intend to and I apologize.

              Please, just go back and read what I said from a different perspective. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his decision to withhold it. I was merely offering another option that would still uphold the integrity of the Hybrid roster he is now a part of.
              Last edited by Gambo187; 04-15-2017, 01:40 AM.

              Comment

              • TheGame8544
                MVP
                • Jul 2003
                • 1656

                #232
                Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                Originally posted by Gambo187
                It's sad that nowadays everybody is worried about some schmuck stealing their work and it's gotten to a point where everybody is accused of trying to steal for the sake of some stupid clicks and likes that everybody else will forget about the next Tuesday. It's this type of mentality that takes a lot of the fun out of these communities.

                Perhaps next time you should consider as an attempt at a simple exchange of ideas instead of some great conspiracy.


                Could not agree with you more on the above. This is the Twitter generation. Everything is about getting your 5 seconds of fame whenever and however you can get it. Sad.

                Comment

                • rovert22044
                  OCD Roster Editor
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 2509

                  #233
                  Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                  Originally posted by Gambo187
                  I think you're making a lot more out of this than needs to be.

                  Rovert I believe we've been part of some good discussions about rosters before here and with Madden and I value your opinion. Seemingly I've crossed a line I didn't know existed and I didn't intend to and I apologize.

                  Please, just go back and read what I said from a different perspective. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his decision to withhold it. I was merely offering another option that would still uphold the integrity of the Hybrid roster he is now a part of.
                  I might have taken your comment the wrong way. For that I apologize. I didn't mean for this to get to the point it has.
                  Football Data Analyst @ Tracking Football
                  Founder/CEO @ JUCOHub

                  Comment

                  • TheGame8544
                    MVP
                    • Jul 2003
                    • 1656

                    #234
                    Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                    Originally posted by Gambo187
                    I think you're making a lot more out of this than needs to be.

                    Rovert I believe we've been part of some good discussions about rosters before here and with Madden and I value your opinion. Seemingly I've crossed a line I didn't know existed and I didn't intend to and I apologize.

                    Please, just go back and read what I said from a different perspective. There is absolutely nothing wrong with his decision to withhold it. I was merely offering another option that would still uphold the integrity of the Hybrid roster he is now a part of.


                    And good response man. Personally, I was never upset at you, but I appreciate Rovert wanting to present our side and you offering an apology.

                    Nothing we need to make enemies over.

                    Only other thing I'll address is the 2-3 months for release of Hybrid. It's actually much closer to 2 weeks than it is to 2 months. At the rate we are going, it might even be faster than 2 weeks, but no guarantees.

                    V1 will be just ratings and correct teams set as an Opening Day roster. V2 will contain the extra fluff. V2 on will also have updated transactions.

                    Honestly with the team we have together, you'll get the roster with everyone re-rated faster than you could rate a bunch of the minor league players. It'll be worth the wait.

                    Comment

                    • TheGame8544
                      MVP
                      • Jul 2003
                      • 1656

                      #235
                      Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                      Originally posted by rovert22044
                      I might have taken your comment the wrong way. For that I apologize. I didn't mean for this to get to the point it has.


                      Good for you bro, and thanks for what you said! Glad all can be at peace now.

                      Comment

                      • WaitTilNextYear
                        Go Cubs Go
                        • Mar 2013
                        • 16830

                        #236
                        Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                        Originally posted by Gambo
                        There really isn't any reason you couldn't release it. The hybrid includes much more than flat ratings right out of your calculator. It stinks that such an awesome tool is being held back because of a roster that a) has no release date and b) not everyone cares about.

                        Additionally, most low minor leaguers don't have full year stats so any worth while roster needs to have those guys and their potentials tweaked anyway.

                        There are ways you could release a version that limits a recreation of the Hybrids. A possibility is one that has the MLB stats removed so people can work on their prospects and not MLB players.

                        It's just frustrating that the community has to suffer because people are afraid of some schmo copying their work poorly.
                        Originally posted by Gambo187
                        First of all, I said not everyone not no one.

                        Second of all, before you comment about self-entitlement and putting work into something, why don't you skip on over to the OOTP boards, Madden or go back and look up High Heat, Front Page Sports, NBA Live, Hard Ball and so on and so and look up my username and see the amount of Mods, Add-ons or assistance (including Beta testing) I've put in to sports video games over the years. All done for free and on my time and done out of enjoyment and nothing else but wanting to make these games more enjoyable for everyone.

                        Me, like a lot of people who used to put up all this stuff for gratis, are now older and have lives that don't allow for us to put in the extent on our hobbies we used to. So simply, I, like many, don't have the time to wait 2-3 months from for the Hybrid but would still want the enjoyment of realistic rated prospects.

                        Instead, what I offered is the thoughts of a compromise that keeps the intellectual value of TheGame's product without having to withhold it in it's entirety. It's a system i've seen done before and thought it would be fitting, especially since it seems that, from his posts, TheGame feels obligated to keep the propriety information on hold for the sake of the Hybrid.

                        It's sad that nowadays everybody is worried about some schmuck stealing their work and it's gotten to a point where everybody is accused of trying to steal for the sake of some stupid clicks and likes that everybody else will forget about the next Tuesday. It's this type of mentality that takes a lot of the fun out of these communities.

                        Perhaps next time you should consider as an attempt at a simple exchange of ideas instead of some great conspiracy.
                        Might want to stick with one account or the other. Mods around these parts have a tendency to ban users with multiple accounts.

                        As for the bold part, I couldn't agree more. But, it's a different type of mentality that I view as the problem. Where is the can-do spirit? I wish there were more people who produced things to add value to these forums. The ratio is such that very few people do all the work and the rest of the community gripes and moans until that work is complete. And then whines a little more that the work wasn't done to their specs and on their timeline. If the community, writ large, put half the energy into producing rosters and things of value as they did waiting around for rosters and insights to rain down like manna from the heavens, we'd have a fundamentally different place. Probably a better place. Instead, some are more than satisfied to demand you answer their question because they didn't have the time to look for the answers themselves. Some chafe at the notion you ask them to do absolutely anything for themselves beyond asking for ETA's and favors. Even if you personally are not guilty of having an entitlement mentality, it would be hard for you to deny that's not extremely prevalent these days.
                        Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

                        Comment

                        • BegBy
                          Banned
                          • Feb 2009
                          • 1212

                          #237
                          Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                          Just read the last few pages. Glad to see it end amicably.

                          I'm one of the plebs that offer nothing, but I do appreciate the work you guys do. I think I have said this in last year's Hybrid thread, but I'll say it again - roster edits make these games we play much better, and the Hybrid set, in my opinion, makes the biggest positive impact for any game I have seen in years. Makes an already great game that much better.

                          Thanks again for the hard work to everyone involved. It's truly appreciated.

                          Comment

                          • bamawaz
                            Rookie
                            • Jul 2003
                            • 109

                            #238
                            Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                            I am also one of those who contributes nothing yet am able to share in the wealth of talent from these generous contributors.

                            Thank you for making this game better.

                            Waz

                            Comment

                            • Bravescountry123
                              Rookie
                              • Oct 2014
                              • 132

                              #239
                              Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                              will these work for the 2017 season because they are based on last season?

                              Comment

                              • rovert22044
                                OCD Roster Editor
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 2509

                                #240
                                Re: The Game's Community Ratings Calculator

                                Originally posted by Bravescountry123
                                will these work for the 2017 season because they are based on last season?

                                They're currently being imported into this year's Hybrid rosters as we speak.


                                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                                Football Data Analyst @ Tracking Football
                                Founder/CEO @ JUCOHub

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