Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

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  • KBLover
    Hall Of Fame
    • Aug 2009
    • 12172

    #541
    Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

    Originally posted by The Chef
    As far as hitting goes do you guys utilize the left stick to try and influence hits or simply buttons for swinging? I dont mean situational (ie. fly ball for a sac fly etc) I mean every AB? I don't and am starting to wonder if my abysmal hitting is a by product of that as it seems like I'm under anything up in the zone and over anything low in the zone so unless its in the middle 3 quadrants I'm basically screwed. I'm used to the style of simply pressing one of three buttons to swing and thats it but it seems like this year its vastly different, either that or I'm reaching at straws to explain why my guys cant do anything unless the pitch is right over the heart of the plate. I feel like there is something I'm doing wrong or differently then everyone else here as my offense is a joke and its really starting to ruin the game for me. I'm not swinging crazy, last game I struck out 5 times and walked 3 but I also went an abysmal 2/28 at the plate and I was constantly getting "good" timing and watching as guys did absolutely nothing with the ball. If it weren't for a Carl Crawford single followed by a HR from Howie Kendrick I wouldn't have even scored. I know I may have to test the waters on veteran for hitting but I really want to figure out this All-Star thing and I'm left scratching my head as I appear to be swinging at good pitches with good timing yet the results are garbage over and over again. Any help would be appreciated.

    With power guys I'll often influence up until 2 strikes and spit on anything low unless it's down-and-in (and not on the corner of the "box") for someone like Davis or Harper that likes down-and-in. A single from a slugger is almost like a moral victory for the pitcher. It's better than an out, but still.

    For contact types, if they have low power, I'll try influencing down, even in DP situations. Flyballs from guys like Panik with 25 or whatever power are not going to be a fun time, so I try minimizing them (doesn't work all the time). My hitters, for whatever reason, have been flyball happy lately. So I really wear this out on the low Power guys.

    The thing about influencing, though, is you better either get the pitch you're looking for or have good timing and ratings. For someone that's got low contact, influencing might just make things worse. After all, it's as much a "trajectory modifier" as it is looking for an area. What might have been a long HR might turn into a sky high 360 ft fly ball out because I influenced up and got under it too much.

    Same for inside/outside. I usually just try to change my timing if I want to push/pull the ball.

    Another thing I sometimes do, especially for guys with decent contact ratings, is just power swing, regardless of power rating. Especially in hitter counts where I think (THINK) the PCI expands. Seems like I read that on here somewhere. Anyway, even if it doesn't, the pitcher will likely either come in to try to get back in the count (so possibly a hittable pitch) or he tries to get you to give away your advantage and chase (then you can spit on it).

    One thing I will say, especially if you're on Solid Hits: 4 like in the OP...the one thing about going below default in Solid Hits is your batted ball profile might skew too much to the crappy trajectories, especially against tough pitchers (high H/9 and/or K/9 where the PCI shrinks) and mediocre (or worse) Contact/PVis guys (smaller PCI at base).
    Last edited by KBLover; 04-27-2016, 10:53 PM.
    "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

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    • Gagnon39
      Windy City Sports Fan
      • Mar 2003
      • 8544

      #542
      Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

      I'm definitely going to be sticking to Hall of Fame.

      I just pitched an absolute gem with Jake Arrieta. I had a perfect game through seven innings. I gave up a bloop single just over Rizzo's head.

      I was one strike away from a complete game shutout before Carlos Gonzalez finally made me pay, blasting a home run.

      I had 11 punchouts and no walks. Rondon recorded the final out.

      No matter what I do I just can't get the feeling of being challenged unless I'm pitching on Hall of Fame. On All-Star, no matter what I do I feel like I can just pick pitches and throw them without worrying about what might happen. On Hall of Fame I really hang on every pitch and I love it.
      All the Way, Again: A Chicago Cubs Franchise

      Streaming on Twitch
      https://www.twitch.tv/gagnon39

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      • KBLover
        Hall Of Fame
        • Aug 2009
        • 12172

        #543
        Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

        I guess I just suck lol.

        I lost 6-5 and won 7-6 on a walk off walk in my last two games on All-Star. This with a strong team 74-41 Marlins.
        "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

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        • Burgess
          MVP
          • Oct 2015
          • 1015

          #544
          Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

          I think I finally found my "sweet spot". Played game 1 of the Yankees - Astros series. I was on AllStar for both pitching and hitting. Used (as always) Armour's sliders except for these tweaks:

          Cpu contact - 6 (as per Armour's recent change)
          Cpu timing - 6
          Cpu solid hits - 5
          Fastball pitch speed slider - 6
          Offspeed pitch speed slider - 8

          Tanaka gave up an unearned run in the 1st and a solo homer to Valbuena in the 2nd. He left the game down 2-0 after 6 as he was at 104 pitches he had given up 7 hits, walked 2 and struck out 7. Keuchel was dominate allowing only 1 hit through 6 while striking out 7 and walking 2 as well. I put in Pestano in the 7th and he gives up a run on 2 hits and a walk. Down 3-0 going in to the bottom of the 7th. With the bases loaded and 1 out Headley rips a double scoring 2. Castro hits a sac. fly and the game is tied at 3. Betances pitched a perfect 8th striking out 2. Hicks hits a double with 1-out in the 8th and A-rod drives him in with a RBI single. Chapman strikes out 2 and gets a line out for a 4-3 Yankee win. Astros end up with 3 runs on 9 hits, 3 walks and 12 strikeouts. Yankees score 4 runs on just 6 hits (no homers), 2 walks and 8 strikeouts.

          It was the most enjoyable game for me this year by far. The game was exciting and I definately felt challenged. I may lower the fastball slider down to 5 and offspeed down to 7 as I was late on some pitches when I shouldn't have been once some of the harder throwing relievers came in.

          I'm definately going forward with these changes. If you were a little too dominant on AllStar and struggling on HOF, I envourage you to give these changes a try. Thanks for all of the advice and help on this thread and to Armour for the great sliders
          Yankees modern day
          Phillies modern day

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          • Gagnon39
            Windy City Sports Fan
            • Mar 2003
            • 8544

            #545
            Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

            I'm predicting that Armor will transition back to Hall of Fame pitching before it's all said and done...
            All the Way, Again: A Chicago Cubs Franchise

            Streaming on Twitch
            https://www.twitch.tv/gagnon39

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            • KBLover
              Hall Of Fame
              • Aug 2009
              • 12172

              #546
              Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

              He might. Or make a HoF version.

              Or maybe raise CPU contact to 7 and or Solid Hits to 5+ for CPU.

              I'll just tip my cap to you guys who can own HoF and stick with "hard All-Star".
              "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

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              • jake44np
                Post Like a Champion!
                • Jul 2002
                • 9563

                #547
                Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                Originally posted by Gagnon39
                I'm predicting that Armor will transition back to Hall of Fame pitching before it's all said and done...
                Absolutely no way I can play my Reds season on HOF Pitching with their pitching staff.
                it would be no fun at all and I would loose interest in giving up 6 or 7 runs every game.
                You have to remember you are using the Cubs and their pitching staff is really good.
                Most of us have no Jake's or John Lester's. lol
                ND Season Ticket Holder since '72.

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                • Armor and Sword
                  The Lama
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 21794

                  #548
                  Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                  Final slider we are testing now is the CPU Hook slider.
                  Now Playing on PS5:
                  CFB 26 Hurricanes/Fresno State Year 2
                  MLB The Show 25 - 2025 Yankees Year 1
                  MLB The Show 25 1985 Yankees Year 1
                  Oblivion Remaster



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                  • Gagnon39
                    Windy City Sports Fan
                    • Mar 2003
                    • 8544

                    #549
                    Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                    Originally posted by jake44np
                    Absolutely no way I can play my Reds season on HOF Pitching with their pitching staff.
                    it would be no fun at all and I would loose interest in giving up 6 or 7 runs every game.
                    You have to remember you are using the Cubs and their pitching staff is really good.
                    Most of us have no Jake's or John Lester's. lol
                    Speaking of Jon Lester, he can field, throw to first and pick off runners. What is SCEA thinking?
                    All the Way, Again: A Chicago Cubs Franchise

                    Streaming on Twitch
                    https://www.twitch.tv/gagnon39

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                    • KBLover
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Aug 2009
                      • 12172

                      #550
                      Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                      Originally posted by jake44np
                      Absolutely no way I can play my Reds season on HOF Pitching with their pitching staff.
                      it would be no fun at all and I would loose interest in giving up 6 or 7 runs every game.
                      You have to remember you are using the Cubs and their pitching staff is really good.
                      Most of us have no Jake's or John Lester's. lol

                      Sometimes it feels like I give up that many with the staff in my fantasy Rockies lol.

                      Nothing like having to win 10-9 in the bottom of the 9th because your pitchers just will not stop giving up runs. Coors Field with this staff on HoF?

                      No, thank you.

                      I'm already 15-20 and 7-12 on the road so I'm feeling the "Coors Hangover" right now. I don't want that to be 10-25!
                      "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

                      Comment

                      • majestic24
                        KV
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 404

                        #551
                        Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                        I was gonna go in here and ask for some advice from you guys. But then...

                        I play with exactly the same sliders as the OP. All-Star pitching and API ON just to see where the catcher wants it.

                        I play with the Dodgers and we swept the first two series against the Padres and the Giants to start the season 7-0. So we play the Dbacks for our home opener and Maeda is cruising after 6 innings. We are up 4-0 after a Yandal grand slam. At this point I was already thinking that I might have to come here and ask if I should bump my pitching up to HOF.

                        Next inning Maeda gives up a 2-run HR so I take him out of the game. Fast forward to the bottom of the 8th where I was able to get two insurance runs to make it 6-2.

                        So I put Blanton in to start the 9th with a 4-run lead. He gives up 3 straight singles and they score 1 to make it 6-3. So I put Jansen in to settle things down. Next batter strikes out, next batter walks to load the bases, then a sac fly. 6-4. Then David Peralta comes in and hits a double in the alley to give them the lead 7-6! I go down 1-2-3 in the 9th and we get our first loss.

                        Wow. Just wow. If it is possible to get excited about losing a game in The SHow, I guess this might have been that game! Thanks Armor for this awesome set. I think I'm set with the sliders now and just looking forward to finishing the rest of the season. Thanks again!
                        Last edited by majestic24; 04-28-2016, 10:45 AM.

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                        • NEOPARADIGM
                          Banned
                          • Jul 2009
                          • 2788

                          #552
                          Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                          Originally posted by Lunchbox0812
                          How do you "master" Classic pitching? It's literally just pressing the button
                          Yeah, no. There is a full range of control and movement variance dependent on how long you hold the button, and depending on the pitcher and where his confidence is with a particular pitch (more variance), whether he's in the stretch or not, etc., a tap is different from a slight hold, which is different from a 3/4 hold, which is different from a full hold, etc.

                          Not trying to make it sound more complex than it is, but it's not just tapping the button. Sometimes max-effort (the vibration-point) can be as much as 3 seconds away, releasing the button any time prior to that gives variance compared to always holding to vibration or always tapping.

                          In a nutshell: a tap is different from a 0.4 second hold, which is different from a 0.8 second hold, which is different from a 1.3 second hold, which is different from a 2.1 second hold, all of which are different from max-effort, and from what I've seen over the years, what you should do and when is indeed context-sensitive. There's nice depth to the system.

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                          • TheBleedingRed21
                            Game Dev
                            • Oct 2010
                            • 5071

                            #553
                            Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                            Originally posted by Gagnon39
                            I'm predicting that Armor will transition back to Hall of Fame pitching before it's all said and done...
                            I don't see why you think this. His statements on the level is spot on. You hang too many pitches unrealistically and you start pursuing a challenge at the sake of realism.

                            Just because it's too easy for you doesn't mean it doesn't fit the rest of us. I gave up 10 hits and 9 runs last night to the Braves. Its perfect for my style of play.
                            PSN: TheBleedingRed21
                            Twitch: http://www.twitch.tv/TheBleedingRED21_OS

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                            • KBLover
                              Hall Of Fame
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 12172

                              #554
                              Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                              Originally posted by NEOPARADIGM
                              Yeah, no. There is a full range of control and movement variance dependent on how long you hold the button, and depending on the pitcher and where his confidence is with a particular pitch (more variance), whether he's in the stretch or not, etc., a tap is different from a slight hold, which is different from a 3/4 hold, which is different from a full hold, etc.
                              Is there a difference? I vary it thinking I'm making a difference, but then I think the ratings and associated modifiers are doing the bulk of the work.

                              No amount of this will get me to paint with Marmol and his 9 BB/9, for example. Max effort, tap, varying in between - he's as wild as wild is. What does the varying actually do for him?

                              I had a great game with a cold pitcher in my Marlins team. I don't think I was doing anything "masterful" with the interface - it was his day and pitch selection, location, etc kept them off balance and the results feed on themselves like they sometimes do.

                              There's a difference between tapping and holding to vibration (sometimes there is no vibration, though. Not sure what that means) - but I don't know if I did a 1.3 second push vs a 1 second push is going to do much to make Marmol not be throwing like his got his eyes closed.

                              I agree that there's more than just "tap and go" - sometimes full holding is needed, sometimes NOT doing it is needed, depends on the pitch, etc. But I don't know if the various lengths of time in between is doing anything. I don't see anything consistently different in my pitchers on my two primary franchises anyway. The results I see seem to be explained as much by ratings (and sliders) and variation as anything I'm doing with the button presses?

                              To use an example that's not my ace or Marmol - Chris Tillman in my Marlins is 70's basically everywhere, so solid kind of guy. He had a great first half, but is starting to slow down in the second half at least to start. I don't think I'm doing anything consistently great in the first half with the interface and suddenly not doing it to start the second half.
                              Last edited by KBLover; 04-28-2016, 12:07 PM.
                              "Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18

                              Comment

                              • stealyerface
                                MVP
                                • Feb 2004
                                • 1803

                                #555
                                Re: Armor & Sword & Marino's MLB The Show 16 Timed/Classic Simulation Sliders

                                Originally posted by Gagnon39
                                I'm definitely going to be sticking to Hall of Fame.

                                I just pitched an absolute gem with Jake Arrieta. I had a perfect game through seven innings. I gave up a bloop single just over Rizzo's head.

                                I was one strike away from a complete game shutout before Carlos Gonzalez finally made me pay, blasting a home run.

                                I had 11 punchouts and no walks. Rondon recorded the final out.

                                No matter what I do I just can't get the feeling of being challenged unless I'm pitching on Hall of Fame. On All-Star, no matter what I do I feel like I can just pick pitches and throw them without worrying about what might happen. On Hall of Fame I really hang on every pitch and I love it.
                                I had to transition down from Legend, as I felt that the CPU was taking absolutely perfect pitches that no human could ever watch on a 0-2 or 1-2 count. I moved it to HOF, and that is the sweet spot for me. There are a couple of other sinister factors at work, but I love that they are there:

                                Variable Stuff. Ahh, back to the days of yore, and hidden in this game is most definitely a game-time dice roll on what your pitcher has that day. Want to prove it to yourself? Start a game with a pitcher of your choice. Start the game. Choose the 4 seam fastball, and with Classic Pitching, press the X button, and keep it pressed until the ball reaches the catcher's mitt. Aim out of the zone so the batter does not hit it. Look at the speed. 92,93,92,92... Now, restart the game. Same pitcher, just hit quit/restart. Choose the same pitch, and press the entire time. Speeds, 90,91,89,90 Do this five times and look at the pitch speeds. Sometimes up to 3-4mph difference for the same guy. Variable Stuff. Some days David Price is going to be a rock star, and some days he will get shellacked. This is awesome.

                                Also noticeable within the Pitch Attributes Edit screen, along with being able to edit the types of pitches in a repertoire, and the movement, velocity etc, is the ability to edit the Attributes for each pitcher with regards to BB/9 K/9 HR/9 H/9 As they are from the factory, the Attributes are off. Some of them are way off. So, I devised a recipe to test out, where I went to baseball reference, and got all those stats for a certain pitcher. I used Rick Porcello. So I edited his movement, velocity, and the actual pitches he is armed with, and then made edits to his above stats based on his career splits for the 162 game averages. My reasoning for this was that if the Classic Pitching dice-roll was indeed a part of the swing/miss/hit/HR/location/movement/ ratio, wouldn't I want the pitcher I was using to have as close to the statistical advantage he had earned in his career? I did it like this:

                                K/9 is the only "good" stat for a high number. So this is easy. Max Scherzer is the gold standard at 9.8K/9 We have the slider scale set from 1-99 so we assign the K/9 Score based on the current active leader's stat. Max gets a 98 by moving the decimal point over one. Rick Porcello's 5.9 makes his slider a 59 and so on. Want to see the craziest thing? Guess who just happens to be ranked 59th among actives in K/9? Rick Porcello. So we affix that slider for K/9 by moving the decimal point over one spot.

                                For BB/9 we need to do something different. The higher the number the worse the stat is. So we look at the active leader again. Doug Fister has a BB/9 of 1.81 This makes him the highest ranked player and we score his slider for BB/9 a 99 Everyone else get's their BB/9 stat subtracted from 99 Rick Porcello has a BB/9 of 2.16 Subtract that from 99 is a 96.8 or a 97 on the slider. Again, the absolute is the leader, everyone else gets subtracted from there.

                                For HR/9 Clayton Kershaw is our active stud, so he gets a 99 rating. Next is Adam Wainwright with a .605 We take that from 99 and get a 98.39, that's a 98 if we go round numbers, and down from there. Porcello gives up .99 HR/9 So he also gets a 98, but remember, he does not even give up 1/2 a homerun more than the leader per9 inn, that's why the scores are so close.

                                For H/9 innings we do something a little different, as there are so few hit differences between the top 20 guys, there will not, nor should there be a huge difference between their slider scores. So, once again, Kershaw is the leader in H/9 with 6.7 hits per nine innings. Therefore, he scores the 99 as the best and so when we look at the next guy, we see Chris Young with a 7.5 H/9 We take that 7.5 from 99 (the best score) and get 91.5 We add Kershaw's 6.7 (the benchmark) back to it, and we get a rating score of 98.2 Looking again to Porcello, he has a H/9 of 9.99 We subtract that from 99 and get 89.01, add Kershaw's 6.7 to it, and we score Porcello a 95.7 or a 96

                                So, if my theory is correct, and these attribute sliders are taken into consideration when the Classic Pitching algorithm marries the dice-roll, the stats generated for the rest of the league, as well as the pitching outcomes, should play fairly close to the real-life counterpart.

                                I have not edited the entire OSFM Roster, but I have been experimenting with just editing the starting pitchers to their exact stats as above, and their exact repertoires in the Pitch Edit tabs. The games I have played, on Classic Pitching on HOF difficulty, have been fantastic. Assuming the sliders actually work, and it is not the placebo effect, guys are swinging and missing as they should, the balls move as they should, and the box scores have been as close to real life as I can ask for.

                                Realizing that user input still has some outcome with regards to Classic Pitching, I wanted to attributes of the pitchers to match their lifetime/career stats, in an attempt to separate the top pitchers from the mediocre.

                                ~syf
                                "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD

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