Reactions to the games

[no_homerism]

Help me out here if I'm wrong, but...

If, say, 2K or EA had made The Show, or if it had already made a name for itself, would we all be acting the same way? From my viewpoint, it seems as though people try their hardest to ridicule every single aspect of Madden every year, MLB 2K6, etc... all big-name games. The Show came out of next-to-nowhere--NFL 2K5 didn't, but in relation to Madden, it could have been seen as it doing the same thing, considering how the percentage of people who played 2K as opposed to Madden 2yrs ago, for the price or other reason, gazzilion-ultiplied for NFL 2K5. I've never played The Show, but NFL 2K5 had its share of problems, but I--and many others--love(d) it and still play it to this day. It appears as though there's a similar reaction towards The Show. On the other hand, you have people on a balls-out rampage against Madden 06 (for 360) and MLB 2K6. It's almost as though--not to put words in anyones' mouths--many people here were determined to find anything wrong they could with the more popular game, as if they had convinced themselves already that they wanted to be the one to spoil the party for everyone else, whereas the Show people seem as though they're much more carefree about it and, as a result, enjoying their game much more than the 2K6 people.

Of course, MLB 2K6 could just be that bad, and The Show could just be that good. But it's worth wondering, whether this has any basis in reality or not, how exactly people judge their games, and if our opinions on 2K6 as compared to The Show are strictly about the game, or are about something on another level--the whole "obscurity factor," the game's popularity, etc.

Is there something predetermined about how people judge games--I mean, do people tend to take into account more than just the game itself? And on that note, what does the whole "popularity/obscurity factor" have to do with it?

Not really an argument here, just some food for thought and discussion.

Again, I haven't really been part of the online sports video game community, or whatever, for too long, so I'm interested in seeing what some of you guys think.

On that note, discuss.

Edit for clarification: Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say 2K6 is better than The Show, or vice-versa: I haven't played either. The Show sounds amazing. I'm sure it's a great game, and probably a lot better than 2K6. I'm just wondering what goes into peoples' considerations when judging games, is all.

Edit 2: And let me point out that I think it's fair that EA and 2K get "dumped on," for the reasons people have been mentioning, such as a lack of new innovations in Madden, etc.

Edit 3: Again, I'm not saying there's some sort of "other reason" people love The Show. I'm sure it's a great game. Again, I'm not trying to prove a point of any kind.

Final edit: OK, just to sum this up, and to keep people from having to navigate through the pages: what I'm trying to say is, possibly because the expectations are not as great, people aren't going out of their way to nitpick every single detail about it--just like NFL 2K5, at least from my experience. It seems as though they are focused on what the developers put in the game, and not what isn't in there, like the MLB 2K6 fans seem to be. I'm talking about the ex-MVPers that just converted over this year, that had never played those before. The game has been praised for 2-3 years, but it doesn't have nearly as wide an audience due to its exclusitivity. I would think that since 2K's games are more widely available, and the fact that 2K Sports is a bigger brand name, that people would be expecting more, especially with their exclusive licensing, and that seems to be the case.

[kingdevin]

Re: Reactions to the games

Help me out here if I'm wrong, but...

If, say, 2K or EA had made The Show, or if it had already made a name for itself, would we all be acting the same way? From my viewpoint, it seems as though people try their hardest to ridicule every single aspect of Madden every year, MLB 2K6, etc... all big-name games. The Show came out of next-to-nowhere--NFL 2K5 didn't, but in relation to Madden, it could have been seen as it doing the same thing, considering how the percentage of people who played 2K as opposed to Madden 2yrs ago, for the price or other reason, gazzilion-ultiplied for NFL 2K5. I've never played The Show, but NFL 2K5 had its share of problems, but I--and many others--love(d) it and still play it to this day. It appears as though there's a similar reaction towards The Show. On the other hand, you have people on a balls-out rampage against Madden 06 (for 360) and MLB 2K6. It's almost as though--not to put words in anyones' mouths--many people here were determined to find anything wrong they could with the more popular game, as if they had convinced themselves already that they wanted to be the one to spoil the party for everyone else, whereas the Show people seem as though they're much more carefree about it and, as a result, enjoying their game much more than the 2K6 people.

Of course, MLB 2K6 could just be that bad, and The Show could just be that good. But it's worth wondering, whether this has any basis in reality or not, how exactly people judge their games, and if our opinions on 2K6 as compared to The Show are strictly about the game, or are about something on another level--the whole "obscurity factor," the game's popularity, etc.

Is there something predetermined about how people judge games--I mean, do people tend to take into account more than just the game itself? And on that note, what does the whole "popularity/obscurity factor" have to do with it?

Not really an argument here, just some food for thought and discussion.

Again, I haven't really been part of the online sports video game community, or whatever, for too long, so I'm interested in seeing what some of you guys think.

On that note, discuss.

Try playing both games and see if your theory is true!!!

[no_homerism]

Re: Reactions to the games

I'm not saying The Show doesn't own 2K6, or trying to make any points like that. I'm just wondering what peoples' motivations are when judging games.

[DMB82]

Re: Reactions to the games

I'm not saying The Show doesn't own 2K6, or trying to make any points like that. I'm just wondering what peoples' motivations are when judging games.

I judge on game quality, and given the type of people that seem to post here (sports fans), I think that's what people go on. I don't care who makes it, this isn't a video game board where people say "I won't play an XBOX game because I hate the evil Microsoft", we're sports fans. The Show is the best baseball game I have ever played, period. 2K6 is one of the worst, and IMO is an embarassing pisspoor attempt to make a baseball video game. Also I think your theory is flawed because the 2K baseball series is hardly "popular" or well known with the average person, both games have been overshadowed by MVP the past 3 years and it just so happens that The Show is what most former MVPers are gravitating towards. 2k had a chance to step up to the plate and grab the huge portion of market share that was going to be without their favorite MVP game, but they failed and lost this market to Sony and MLB 06 mainly through delays in getting the game out and releasing a IMO poor quality game.

[no_homerism]

Re: Reactions to the games

I judge on game quality, and given the type of people that seem to post here (sports fans), I think that's what people go on. I don't care who makes it, this isn't a video game board where people say "I won't play an XBOX game because I hate the evil Microsoft", we're sports fans. The Show is the best baseball game I have ever played, period. 2K6 is one of the worst, and IMO is an embarassing pisspoor attempt to make a baseball video game. Also I think your theory is flawed because the 2K baseball series is hardly "popular" or well known with the average person, both games have been overshadowed by MVP the past 3 years and it just so happens that The Show is what most former MVPers are gravitating towards. 2k had a chance to step up to the plate and grab the huge portion of market share that was going to be without their favorite MVP game, and they failed and lost this market to Sony and MLB 06 mainly through delays in getting the game out and releasing a IMO poor quality game.

But 2K has made other popular games, like NFL 2K5 and the basketball series. What the heck has SCEA, under that name, done? EA and 2K are the two biggest sports video game companies out there, and until The Show, any third one was way too far behind. That's what I'm saying.

It's not really a theory, per se. I was just bringing this up for discussion. It's almost as though people don't let themselves enjoy the games.

[baa7]

Re: Reactions to the games

If, say, 2K or EA had made The Show, or if it had already made a name for itself, would we all be acting the same way? From my viewpoint, it seems as though people try their hardest to ridicule every single aspect of Madden every year, MLB 2K6, etc... all big-name games.

I see the opposite. I see people giving 2K a free ride. They release a buggy, glitch-filled game twice last year, a game that was weeks and even months away from being finished. This year, the game is missing new Busch, and many of the same glitches and lousy AI issues are starting to pop up, again. Yet people say “Who needs accurate sim stats?” or “Who really cares about the lack pitcher fatigue?” or “The lack announcing and presentation polish doesn’t affect game play.” Truly, I think expectations are so low because of the low quality of the baseball games they’ve been releasing. That’s often the way it works certainly.

I agree EA gets dumped on a lot here, but that’s to be expected in some ways, given the events of the last 18 months. But I will point out that the last two EA games I’ve bought were both incredibly polished games: no bugs, and no presentation or announcing issues. In that regard they make 2K’s baseball games look like they were programmed by inexperienced first year college kids just learning their craft, rather than working professionals.

And my understanding is people are praising The Show because it’s a great game. The day 2K puts out a great baseball game, people will no doubt be praising that game and them as well. So no… no conspiracy theory there from what I’m seeing

[no_homerism]

Re: Reactions to the games

And let me point out that I think it's fair that EA and 2K get "dumped on," for the reasons people have been mentioning, such as a lack of new innovations in Madden, etc.

[DMB82]

Re: Reactions to the games

But 2K has made other popular games, like NFL 2K5 and the basketball series. What the heck has SCEA, under that name, done? EA and 2K are the two biggest sports video game companies out there, and until The Show, any third one was way too far behind. That's what I'm saying.

It's not really a theory, per se. I was just bringing this up for discussion. It's almost as though people don't let themselves enjoy the games.

The average sports gamer knows EA sports, and that's pretty much it. 2K seems to have an internet fanbase, but I don't know any friends that own their games and they don't have great name recognition let's be honest. SCEA/989 is not know for really anything sportswise other than their baseball game which has had a following since the PS1 days due to it being the only game in town but it's only been over the past 2-3 years and especially this year where people are really becoming big fans of the series due to Sony bringing in some former High Heat and ASB developers who have done wonders for the franchise. Luckilly for us baseball gamers, SCEA hit their stride in baseball the year that MVP is no more.

[DMB82]

Re: Reactions to the games

And let me point out that I think it's fair that EA and 2K get "dumped on," for the reasons people have been mentioning, such as a lack of new innovations in Madden, etc.

I didn't see any real hatred towards 2K before they bought the MLB license, they had to know there were going to be legions of pissed off MVP fans due to this move and there's enough of them that's going to make 2k feel it by going to their competion or not buying a baseball game this year. I think you're giving the 2k baseball series too much credit, there's very few hardcore followers of this series. To compare it to Madden is absurd IMO, people have been playing and loving Madden for over a decade.

[baa7]

Re: Reactions to the games

And let me point out that I think it's fair that EA and 2K get "dumped on," for the reasons people have been mentioning, such as a lack of new innovations in Madden, etc.

I'd say "yes and no" to that one. Lack of innovation is simply not very inventive. It's then up to gamers to decide if they want to buy a new version of the same old game -- a roster update, in other words. That's why I haven't bought Madden for four years (that and the game play: not my cup of tea).

The problem I have is with companies who release games, fully knowing that aspects of the game are basically broken and unplayable. And that's what 2K's been doing with their baseball games for the last couple years. It's also what they did with NFL 2K5 IMO. That to me deserves "dumping on". It's dishonest. Lack of innovation isn't dishonest, just dull.

[Erv]

Re: Reactions to the games

The Show has two things in its favor, expectations aren't big and it has a smaller userbase, a few people make it out to be a huge accomplishment in baseball gaming. It isn't. I had the game, and it has quite a few blemishes, particularly on the hitting/fielding/ai area. you'd see these things pointed out if more people played the game. 989 has a big task ahead of them anyway, avoiding the PS2 launch debacle that nearly killed off the brand.

2K6 deserves it's knocks though, it sums up everything wrong with sports gaming today. If this were an EA product, the board would explode.

[nemesis04]

Re: Reactions to the games

The Show has two things in its favor, expectations aren't big and it has a smaller userbase, a few people make it out to be a huge accomplishment in baseball gaming. .

How do you come to this conclusion? This title has a pretty decent following. As far as a small userbase, the MLB series has outsold this series on the ps2 for the passed few years. This site tends to be xbox heavy, does not mean this is the norm. There are a lot of ps2's out there.

http://forums.operationsports.com/vB...56#post1439856

[DMB82]

Re: Reactions to the games

The Show has two things in its favor, expectations aren't big and it has a smaller userbase, a few people make it out to be a huge accomplishment in baseball gaming. It isn't. I had the game, and it has quite a few blemishes, particularly on the hitting/fielding/ai area. you'd see these things pointed out if more people played the game. 989 has a big task ahead of them anyway, avoiding the PS2 launch debacle that nearly killed off the brand.

2K6 deserves it's knocks though, it sums up everything wrong with sports gaming today. If this were an EA product, the board would explode.

1) The Show is selling extremely well, it's been a top 5 PS2 seller at Amazon since it came out.

2) I have played The Show for a month and don't have a single hitting or AI complaint. Yes the fielding could be slightly better (in comparison to MVP) but once you get used to it, it's solid.

3) How did the PS2 launch almost "kill off" SCEA/989? They are already developing MLB 07 for the PS3, if it's delayed again, I'd imagine they'd immediately stop and work on MLB 07 for the PS2 instead. Since they are Sony's inhouse producers, I am sure they hear from them often on the PS3 status.

4) EA would never release a game so full of bugs that renders it unplayable. Say what you want about the poor representation of baseball that was the Triple Play series, but at least it looked good, played good(for what it was), and wasn't buggy.

[LBzrule]

Re: Reactions to the games

I'd say "yes and no" to that one. Lack of innovation is simply not very inventive. It's then up to gamers to decide if they want to buy a new version of the same old game -- a roster update, in other words. That's why I haven't bought Madden for four years (that and the game play: not my cup of tea).

The problem I have is with companies who release games, fully knowing that aspects of the game are basically broken and unplayable. And that's what 2K's been doing with their baseball games for the last couple years. It's also what they did with NFL 2K5 IMO. That to me deserves "dumping on". It's dishonest. Lack of innovation isn't dishonest, just dull.

I agree and I'm getting sick of this BS. I want to give the 2k guys the benefit of the doubt but this BS I can't. People complain about EA simply releasing the same game with a roster update yada yada yada. Well, those people need to open their eyes. What are we getting from 2k? Maybe not the same look, maybe not the same exact game, but a trend has started here and we KNOW for a fact that we will be getting something that we do not like: A game full of OBVIOUS glitches and bugs. It's sad that they are becoming known for this

2k Sports has no one to blame here but themselves. What is going on management wise there, hint hint...

Sad, the company that is "known" to innovate is also the company that releases games with obvious bugs.

[slickdtc]

Re: Reactions to the games

The average sports gamer knows EA sports, and that's pretty much it. 2K seems to have an internet fanbase, but I don't know any friends that own their games and they don't have great name recognition let's be honest. SCEA/989 is not know for really anything sportswise other than their baseball game which has had a following since the PS1 days due to it being the only game in town but it's only been over the past 2-3 years and especially this year where people are really becoming big fans of the series due to Sony bringing in some former High Heat and ASB developers who have done wonders for the franchise. Luckilly for us baseball gamers, SCEA hit their stride in baseball the year that MVP is no more.

Eh, I think 2k Sports has some notoriety besides on the internet. I know a couple of people who love ESPN NFL 2k5 and play NHL 2k6 and NBA 2k6. I actually find it pretty surprising sometimes to hear people talk about the 2k Sports games, just because EA Sports is like, the iPod of sports video games.