Since I have to buy this game.

[Gagnon39]

Was 2K5 a good simulation as compared to MVP 05? I've picked MVP 05 back up and started another dynasty so I can play it for another year if I have to. However, I always buy a baseball game every year (its kind of a tradition, lol). I'm sure 2K6 on XBOX 360 will look awesome and that scares me in a way. I'm afraid that once I see it, I won't be able to play MVP 05 anymore. However, I'm just hoping that the gameplay is somewhere close to the level that MVP 05 had. For example...

Are there multiple, multiple types of hits?
Do unique things happen like the ball hitting the bases and taking funny hops?
Can you draw walks?
Is it too easy not to walk anyone when pitching?
Do the fielders throw it perfectly to the bases from the outfield every time?
Are there good variations in scores? Some games 1-2 others 10-12?

These are the details that MVP nailed perfectly in my opinion and I hope they will be in 2K6. I've not played a 2K baseball game for the past few years and haven't read much on it. For those who know much about it, I'd love to hear your input about the game. Being as how I'm an MVP die-hard, its going to be tough to transition to 2K6 but I'll try. I guess I'm in the same boat as NFL 2K5 fans that tried Madden Next Gen. I just hope I'm not 1/10th as dissapointed as those converts were.

[baa7]

Re: Since I have to buy this game.

Are there multiple, multiple types of hits?
Do unique things happen like the ball hitting the bases and taking funny hops?
Can you draw walks?
Is it too easy not to walk anyone when pitching?
Do the fielders throw it perfectly to the bases from the outfield every time?
Are there good variations in scores? Some games 1-2 others 10-12?

First, you don’t have to buy this game, even though I know what it’s like to be a video baseball addict And if MLB 2K6 is as bad out of the box as MLB 2K5 was, you’ll want to keep your wallet shut to stick with MVP.

Multiple hits: this is maybe the most underrated problem/issue with MLB 2K5. They had a slider called “AI Skill” which is basically a cheat that manufactures hits for the CPU. So if you shifted you D left, the CPU would hit the ball right and vice versa, which made IF-OF shifts pointless. Plus it reduced the hit variety to the same idiotic handful of seeing-eye line drives – very, very cheesy. The other problem here is the CPU batting is anemic to begin with, even with the AI Skill slider way up. Dropping it down produces a much greater variety of hits, but then the CPU strikes out way too much. It’s really, really bad, and whether or not they fixed this is the thing that’s going to make or break MLB 2K6, for me anyway.

No balls hitting bags; no funny hops. On the contrary, the infielders and pitchers in particular play like human vacuum cleaners, so bad hops etc mean nothing to those gold glovers.

Drawing walks is something that’s programmed properly. The CPU pitching sliders are very effective.

It’s way too easy as a User to throw strikes every time, yes. That can only be improved (and only somewhat) by editing player ratings, and cannot be fixed at all with sliders-only.

Fielder throws to bases do travel offline or miss the bag altogether. Generally though, the fielding ratings need lowering because players are simply unrealistically good.

The variations in scores are a positive thing about the game, and that has a lot to do with the Confidence feature. When players perform well their confidence goes up which in turn assists in improving their play. Conversely, a player having a bad game will lose confidence and will continue getting worse as the game progresses.

I’m not an MVP fan: I tried it a couple of times but couldn’t get into it. But I did notice the moment I started my first game that it plays a much smoother and tighter game of baseball than MLB 2K5. MLB is like a relationship where the sex is good but you spend most of the time fighting with each other. I’m going to guess most MVP fans are going to have a really tough time getting into MLB. Hopefully though, they’ve improved and balanced the game play for 2K6 – but personally I’m skeptical, given how poorly programmed MLB 2K5 was overall. And no: MLB 2K5 in no way, shape or form could be considered a “sim”. After dozens of hours of editing maybe, but certainly not out of the box.

[Blzer]

Re: Since I have to buy this game.

Are there multiple, multiple types of hits?

This is something that has been lacking in the series for quite some time now... ever since World Series Baseball 2K1 (which they had a pretty okay variety). VC is now taking over a little part of the game; I hope they have the sense in helping reproduce the same kind of contact (and realistic contact) variety that they do in... say... the ways the basketball bounces off of the rim or swishes through the net in NBA 2K6.

The problem isn't in the variety, though. There's plenty of variety. As a matter of fact, I've never seen a game have such a diverse amount of hits. I've seen many home runs realistically land as short porches (although the distance they give the home runs is freakishly large). That's not the problem. The problem is that there is a general sleu of infield bloops and choppers that are just unrealistic. What I mean by that is that it's impossible to get a kind of hit like that from the impact of the ball going at that speed vs the bat traveling at that speed. If you play MLB 2K5, you'll see what I mean. They are the strangest hits that I've just grown accustomed to... because they've been in the series for so long.

I am, in a way, fed up with them, but like I said... I'm so used to it, I now have to expect it. It's unfortunate, but if they can change the hitting model so that the bat is an entire collision detector itself, and different parts of the bat create different impulses, then it would be for the better.


What do I mean by this? Well, I've played this game for quite a while now, and I am pretty annoyed at how check swings are impossible to make contact with. I've gone through the replays... I saw how the ball went through the bat.





On one hand, there is a lot of eye candy in this game. However, EA does it with the gameplay, and 2K Sports does it with the presentation. Normally I would choose gameplay, but the whole package has to be there too... and I prefer MLB 2K5's package overall. It basically boils down to "which game could I potentially play 500 games of and still like it?" Answer: MLB 2K5.

Like baa7 said, a lot of MVP gamers will not enjoy trying to get into this game. It's a bad game to force yourself into... it really is. If you do, however, then you can give your realistic input. Way too many people make their excuses based upon the game's reputation, and that is that it's glitchy, buggy, and impossible to play or enjoy. I can call bull**** on two of the three, and the third is no worse than the offering that MVP Baseball 2004 gave us—but people enjoyed it anyway. I think that's something that I call "favoritism injustice".





Oh, and baa7, I know that the defense sometimes seems superhuman. I guess that's true in terms of the dives and the leaps (and the sprints to rob home runs). This is also the case for the CPU... they're too good. However, there are these predictable choppers where... it's strange, because it's like I know that it's coming... but where my fielders cannot field them. It's not like they're errors. The glove just doesn't go on the ball when they're rushing to it. Surely you've seen this many times before, and while I get frustrated at it, I can't help but admire the fact that the game isn't just a "vaccuum" kind of defense. It's nice to see that they actually have to lay the glove on the ball to catch it.

[baa7]

Re: Since I have to buy this game.

The problem isn't in the variety, though. There's plenty of variety. As a matter of fact, I've never seen a game have such a diverse amount of hits. I've seen many home runs realistically land as short porches (although the distance they give the home runs is freakishly large). That's not the problem. The problem is that there is a general sleu of infield bloops and choppers that are just unrealistic. What I mean by that is that it's impossible to get a kind of hit like that from the impact of the ball going at that speed vs the bat traveling at that speed.

My observations: I see hit variety, but only since I lowered the AI Skill to 25-35. Most people seem to play with it up in the 80+ range, and that’s when all the seeing-eye line drives happen. I don’t believe I’m mistaken here, because a complaint from a lot of people in the first month had to do with the lack of hit variety.

I think I know what you’re getting at with your “unrealistic hits” comments. There are times when the velocity and location of the hit does not compute with the pitch location. Again though, these are those pre-programmed auto-hits I was alluding to that I believe are a result of the AI Skill slider. Something is definitely not right there for sure, and they apparently cut some programming corners with that.

A good indication of the pre-programmed nature of the hitting game is how I can so often throw two strikes and the batter misses them by a mile, but then always manages to get wood on the third strike, regardless of where I pitch it. Same thing with bunting: with a guy on third, the CPU will often squeeze bunt him home. You can tell it’s coming by the way the batter even stands there in the box. And no matter where you pitch the ball – inside; outside; a foot high – the batter ALWAYS gets wood on it and ALWAYS scores the runner (in part because the programming doesn’t allow the User P to pick up the ball and toss it to the C in time).

However, there are these predictable choppers where... it's strange, because it's like I know that it's coming... but where my fielders cannot field them. It's not like they're errors. The glove just doesn't go on the ball when they're rushing to it.

The choppers are like playing the game in Matrix-like bullet time. Everything slows down and almost stops. The ball bounces like a super-ball in molasses. You can’t move your infielders to the ball. It’s like the game is running some “Time for infield single!” programming. More “pre-programmed hitting game” stuff.

[baa7]

Re: Since I have to buy this game.

I can't help but admire the fact that the game isn't just a "vaccuum" kind of defense. It's nice to see that they actually have to lay the glove on the ball to catch it.

True there. There's a real sense of having to position the fielder properly, before trying to field the ball, otherwise there's a good chance he muffs it.

[Blzer]

Re: Since I have to buy this game.

It’s way too easy as a User to throw strikes every time, yes. That can only be improved (and only somewhat) by editing player ratings, and cannot be fixed at all with sliders-only.

Man, and I'm telling you about that grandeur of mine about the strike zones. They must be adjusted for us to have less room for error.

I'm not going to say too much without you guys at Kush having to understand this, so I'll keep it short and sweet.

A major league strike zone these days is much lower, and much smaller. Corners are normally only given if it paints them while crossing the front of the plate (unlike how I know that ESPN Major League Baseball used a 3D strike zone interface).

Many strike zones these days go somewhere a little above the belt and just at or below the knees. Not only that... but it should adjust for EVERY batter. It should NOT stay the same. This is why guys like Rickey Henderson draw so many walks... because of the strike zone that he has when he bats being so low.

So, I ask you... if it's possible, do something similar to this:








The thin line is your guys' strike zone, and the thick line is my adjusted zone for Hatteberg in this shot. I'm not saying that the line has to be that thick, but I'm just showing you what I think it should be like.

Also, I remember how the later installments of All Star Baseball had faded corners... meaning at times those calls would vary for balls or strikes. That would be cool, too.

And one final thing... please add an option to turn off the strike zone as well.

Thanks for allowing me to input my suggestion at this time. Let's hope it's something that's changed for 2K6.




Here are a few more:













Here's why guys like Giles walk so much. He has a much smaller zone than Matsui.

ALSO, I think that mistake pitches should not only not always be strikes, but they also should not be previewable. Mistake pitches are not previewable.

[jpup]

Re: Since I have to buy this game.

Blzer, i appreciate you efforts to improve the game, but your logic if faulty. The reason guys walk more than other has nothing to do with the size of their strike zone. It's called plate discipline, see Adam Dunn.

[Blzer]

Re: Since I have to buy this game.

Well, there are two factors. You named one, and I named the other. Rickey Henderson and Brian Giles walk a lot for one reason, and their patience is also part of it.

However, we already have the Plate Discipline attribute. Well, sorta. We have a Walk attribute. That's taken care of... but I'm still not seeing many walks that are by a Human-controlled pitcher. One thing that would help is a realistic strike zone.

Besides, one thing that I realized makes swing animations look SO funny is because when they make contact, they are almost completely upright (and when they finish, they end down low). This is a result of the animators relating everything to the strike zone that this game has, and that they need to be that high and upright to hit the pitches from the top of the strike zone.

What's the problem here? It's that the strike zone is WAY too high. It MUST be lower, and my pictures prove it.



Besides, my strike zone rant was not as much about drawing more walks than just good ol' realism. I don't want fatter players so then they will be slower runners... I want them because it's realistic.

Make more sense?

[sask3m]

Re: Since I have to buy this game.

i myself don't think we will ever see a realistic # of walks by the cpu as long as the user himself is using a meter for pitching. There isn't a meter in any game that hasn't been mastered, the only way to have good walk #'s is by using the classic pitching, like this game has and also highheat, this game though does not have enough pitch variability built into it, last years game was better in that regard.