Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

[baa7]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

To me, a great baseball game, or sports game for that matter, has to incorporate both tight and fluid gameplay along with a robust and detailed statistical engine.

Robust? We talking baseball or fine wines? I agree HH has this cult following that doesn't necessarily make sense, given the game had many problems: the graphics were awful; the presentation was bad; I personally though the swing physics were poor -- clunky like 2K4 was; plus the game got pretty arcade in the end, between the dead-easy batting in 03 and the ported console version in 04.

Honestly, I think a lot of the attraction was the fact there was such an active mod community, rather than the game itself being all that much better than MLB The Show or MVP. I know the greatest video golf game I played was 13 years ago, so you got to know the game itself was a joke by today's standards. But it's the fun I had, and those all-night, all-weekend golf tourneys I had with my golfing buddies.

[capa]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

Robust? We talking baseball or fine wines? I agree HH has this cult following that doesn't necessarily make sense, given the game had many problems: the graphics were awful; the presentation was bad; I personally though the swing physics were poor -- clunky like 2K4 was; plus the game got pretty arcade in the end, between the dead-easy batting in 03 and the ported console version in 04.

Honestly, I think a lot of the attraction was the fact there was such an active mod community, rather than the game itself being all that much better than MLB The Show or MVP. I know the greatest video golf game I played was 13 years ago, so you got to know the game itself was a joke by today's standards. But it's the fun I had, and those all-night, all-weekend golf tourneys I had with my golfing buddies.

baa,

You make an excellent point. I remember the bunt bug in that game...bunting just flat out did not work. I also think there were other problems like pitch counts and lack of walks that people spent countless hours tweaking the INI file in order to fix, and make the game more realistic. Everything from ball physics to some of the animations as well if I remember right. It was the best game of its time, if you were not a graphics lover...but to me it wasn't the be all and end all. I went back to some old archive board posts on another site and started reading again about all the issues that plagued the game.

Don't get me wrong...I loved the first few HH's that came out. I did not buy the last they made so I can't comment on that one, but I do remember even the faithful followers were growing a bit disenchanted at that time as well.

I think it's like looking back on our youth or girlfriends we used to have when we were young. We remember the good times, candlelight dinners, romantic evenings by the fire, nipple clips and speculums...ooops...sorry...got carried away there...

; )

C

[baa7]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

I think it's like looking back on our youth or girlfriends we used to have when we were young. We remember the good times, candlelight dinners, romantic evenings by the fire...

I guess we are talking fine wines. Say, you never went out with the Lutz twins by chance, did you?

[capa]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

I guess we are talking fine wines. Say, you never went out with the Lutz twins by chance, did you?

No on the twins...but I vaguely remember sisters a year apart...does that count?

C

[acarrero]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

How can one answer the question when the game hasn't even come out?

[baa7]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

How can one answer the question when the game hasn't even come out?

Good point. And why did it take 34 posts before the obvious was finally asked?

[mjb2124]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

How can one answer the question when the game hasn't even come out?

Good point. Although he did ask if any former HH'ers thought this game would be the answer. I don't think it will be the answer, but I don't know for sure. Semantics at it's finest.

[mjb2124]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

Yes indeed High Heat was a good game but it certainly wasnt as great a game as many seem to think. The baseball sim engine was quite good indeed, but the gameplay was riddled with simplistic bargain basement progamming. that gave it a very cheap and amature feel. I remember the wiffle ball style pitching physics along with some very underdeveloped animations in comparison to it's competition.

Sliders and mods fixed many of these problems. On default the pitch speed/movement was horrible. Definately needed cranked up.

Of course the graphics/animations could not be fixed and that was certainly HH's biggest problem. I still love that I was actually able to walk a batter in HH without doing so intentionally. I haven't seen that since (and always play with all pitching aids off).

Then again, I've never played SCEA's offering as I haven't had a PS2 in 2-3 years. Since I purchased a 360 at launch and have little interest in a PS3, I don't think I'll ever play their game. I have heard it's good though.

In any case, the value of a game is in the eye of the beholder. We're all looking for that certain something. I still haven't found it since HH.

[hyacinth1]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

hh2003 was their peak. 2004 had too many bugs in it and they sort of ruined the gameplay that 02 and 03 had in that game. but overall, the HH series, especially 2003, was the best videogame baseball I've ever played.

[Keirik]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

i'm one of the HH players who used to mod the tune files a lot in the past......i still miss that game a lot. As to whether or not the 2k series can be the answer...........we can always hope i suppose.

i haven't played any other game that did it was well as HH did though yet.......

[baa7]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

I still love that I was actually able to walk a batter in HH without doing so intentionally. I haven't seen that since (and always play with all pitching aids off).

...and that drove me totally nuts about HH. If I want to throw a strike, I should be able to do it. Hard to believe that any MLB pitcher isn't capable of throwing a strike whenever he chooses.

2K5 tweaked is a much more realistic representation IMO. Yes, you have to lower many if not most pitchers’ Control ratings down into the 10-30 range, which is a pain obviously. But it’s a problem with the programming, not the game itself.

By doing that, if I try and hit a corner with a pitch, I have no idea if the pitch is going to hit its mark, or is going to be outside, or is going to catch too much of the plate. And that’s if I TRY and nibble at the corners, which is the way it should be. On the other hand, if I absolutely need a strike, I know all I have to do is fire it down the middle of the plate, and it’ll be a strike, every time.

I have no doubt that’s exactly the way it is for pitchers in the big leagues, and IMO much more representative of what pitching must be like.

[mjb2124]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

The problem I see with that is if an MLB pitcher aims for the corner and doesn't know if it will hit the corner, go outside or be right over the plate......well....he's not going to be an MLB pitcher very long. Those guys can pinpoint pitches most of the time....heck I could do that in high school and college as well.

Of course, HH wasn't much different in a sense. Walks seemed pre-determined at times. However, it also seemed like there was a fatigue factor thrown in and certain games pitchers just didn't have it. I always thought that was cool because there are days when a pitcher doesn't have it. It certainly wasn't perfect, but I liked it.

HH wasn't perfect, but I still think from a gameplay standpoint, it beats everything I've played to date - MVP and 2K's game.

[baa7]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

The problem I see with that is if an MLB pitcher aims for the corner and doesn't know if it will hit the corner, go outside or be right over the plate......well....he's not going to be an MLB pitcher very long.

That’s not exactly what I was describing. I’m saying a MLB P tries to hit a spot, and the pitch can end up anywhere within a 360 degree direction of that spot. The radius distance of that “miss circle” is directly related to the guy’s accuracy. But any and every P will sometimes miss inside, or outside, or high or low of that spot. Nobody is THAT good.

Likewise, every P in the Majors can no doubt pump strike after strike down more or less down the middle of the plate. So if I’m using a HH-type interface and choose to throw a strike, unless I’m nibbling at corners, that pitch should end up a strike. And that didn’t always happen in HH as I recall, and that’s what I feel was unrealistic.

If you tinker with the Control ratings in 2K5, what you start to see is that “miss circle” expands more and more the lower you drop the Control ratings. So a pitch that I’m trying to hit the black with, might end up 2 inches outside or inside, or a couple inches higher or lower than I aimed. And that “miss radius” as I said lengthens as I continue to lower Control. The problem with 2K5 – and I’m betting with 2K6 – is the average Control ratings for most P’s should be in the 20-30 range. But Kush programmed 2K5 so most P’s Control ratings are around 70. (If anyone tests this, be aware that the effect lowering Control has, is different for different pitches.)

I agree there was some sort of tangible pitching fatigue factor in HH that came into play. And I can’t say I’ve noticed the same thing in 2K5.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

...and that drove me totally nuts about HH. If I want to throw a strike, I should be able to do it. Hard to believe that any MLB pitcher isn't capable of throwing a strike whenever he chooses.

Disagree. There are a lot of pitchers with poor control who might have one pitch they can throw for strikes most of the time but a lot of the time they have another pitch or two which is effectively wild. If you tell them to hit the outside corner with their fastball then they're going to miss a lot of the time and this is exactly how it worked with High Heat. It was really refreshing to see how The Show dealt with this this year since MVP, the 2k game, and All Star Baseball were essentially pinpoint accuracy-fests the past few years.

[baa7]

Re: Any former High Heat players think that this is the answer ?

Disagree. There are a lot of pitchers with poor control who might have one pitch they can throw for strikes most of the time but a lot of the time they have another pitch or two which is effectively wild. If you tell them to hit the outside corner with their fastball then they're going to miss a lot of the time and this is exactly how it worked with High Heat.

You say MLB pitchers can be horribly inaccurate; joeboo says pitchers have to have pin-point accuracy or they’ll be out of baseball; I’m saying a pitcher's ability to throw a strike is entirely dependent on location. And if he chooses to throw pitches down the plate all game long, all of them should be strikes (and HR’s and stuff obviously) which doesn’t happen in HH.