How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

[Wootabilitydotcom]

Seeing as someone like Matsuzaka has a shuuto pitch and a possible gyroball and Maddux has a tailing shuuto-like fastball, wouldn't it be nice to be able to create your own pitch in these games?

Perhaps 2K & Kush could implement such a feature like this. We could control how much break the pitch is supposed to have and how much sink or rise or something.

I think it would be a neat little feature.

[Blzer]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

It is impossible for a pitch to rise. I don't care what people say. You'd have to have like 100x more backspin than pitchers actually get on balls to possibly create lift like that.

What I mean is that... take the derivative of the slope of the ball. Not once in that derivative does the height increase.


However, I understand what you want out of this, but I don't agree that this would be the best feature. How many more types of pitches can people create? If only there were more things to attribute a pitcher's pitch, that would be better (like time of break, left/right movement, drop, etc.). But "create-a-pitch" is actually just a very improbable feature.

[shttymcgee]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

It is impossible for a pitch to rise. I don't care what people say. You'd have to have like 100x more backspin than pitchers actually get on balls to possibly create lift like that.

What I mean is that... take the derivative of the slope of the ball. Not once in that derivative does the height increase.


However, I understand what you want out of this, but I don't agree that this would be the best feature. How many more types of pitches can people create? If only there were more things to attribute a pitcher's pitch, that would be better (like time of break, left/right movement, drop, etc.). But "create-a-pitch" is actually just a very improbable feature.

A sidearm pitch thrown with a slider motion rises and submarine style pitchers throw "rise balls." Even though an over the top delivery doesn't produce rise when throwing a baseball, fastballs thrown by over-the-top pitchers flatten out or lose some of their descent as velocity and rotation increases, this makes it harder to judge where a hard-thrown fastball will cross the plate.

[Blzer]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

A sidearm pitch thrown with a slider motion rises and submarine style pitchers throw "rise balls." Even though an over the top delivery doesn't produce rise when throwing a baseball, fastballs thrown by over-the-top pitchers flatten out or lose some of their descent as velocity and rotation increases, this makes it harder to judge where a hard-thrown fastball will cross the plate.

I think what I'm saying is that a baseball cannot... like... I know that I can make a ball go higher if I throw it upward. For instance, a submariner is able to throw a ball from 6 inches off of the ground, and the ball may end up 20 inches off of the ground. But it cannot begin to increase in height, if that makes sense. That's why I mentioned "derivative".

[shttymcgee]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

I think what I'm saying is that a baseball cannot... like... I know that I can make a ball go higher if I throw it upward. For instance, a submariner is able to throw a ball from 6 inches off of the ground, and the ball may end up 20 inches off of the ground. But it cannot begin to increase in height, if that makes sense. That's why I mentioned "derivative".

If the ball is thrown on a flat plane with high rotation, it will have lift and rise. Overhand pitches flatten out but don't rise because no one can generate enough rpm's to overcome the density of the ball and downard action of the throw. To see a downward thrown ball rise, get a beach ball and throw it at a downward angle out in front of you and it first flatten out and then rise. But you're right in your way, overhand pitches do not "break" upwards, but sidearm throws can start out flat and slightly rise on its way to the plate. This is how breaking pitches curve, the spin of the ball causes the air on one side of the ball to travel around the ball faster than the other side, causing the ball to move in the opposite direction. But I want to reiterate your point, overhand pitches do not curve upwards, but they most definitely flatten out a bit.

[Casino]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

isnt a shuuto just a slider?


and if it is then maddux's shuuto like fastball is just a cutter.

[Blzer]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

If the ball is thrown on a flat plane with high rotation, it will have lift and rise. Overhand pitches flatten out but don't rise because no one can generate enough rpm's to overcome the density of the ball and downard action of the throw. To see a downward thrown ball rise, get a beach ball and throw it at a downward angle out in front of you and it first flatten out and then rise. But you're right in your way, overhand pitches do not "break" upwards, but sidearm throws can start out flat and slightly rise on its way to the plate. This is how breaking pitches curve, the spin of the ball causes the air on one side of the ball to travel around the ball faster than the other side, causing the ball to move in the opposite direction. But I want to reiterate your point, overhand pitches do not curve upwards, but they most definitely flatten out a bit.

Well, I was going to see if anybody was actually going to bring up the beach ball example. The difference here is in the mass of the objects. A baseball is just too heavy to have any type of upward curve to it, or rise (or even flattening out, for that matter). Like you and I both said... nobody can generate enough rotation on the ball to allow it to rise.

It looks like you and I are on the same page, but what I think is that the ball cannot "flatten out" either. I mean yes, I agree that they can throw a straight flat pitch, but that's as "upward" as you'll get in a pitch. As a matter of fact, people probably believe that it rises because flat pitches are almost unnatural. Nearly every pitcher has some sort of sink action in their pitch, no matter how much it is.



Anyway, creating a pitch would, like I said, be too much. First of all, the pitches need to be possible. I still don't know if I can believe that the gyroball is a real pitch, because as far as I understand, it's a pitch with breaking ball/slider spin that won't break. I just don't see how that's physically possible, because the rotation of the ball and the way the seams cut through the air are pretty much what make the ball break. The "creating pitches" would also have to do with gripping it, as well. Overall, I just don't really see what more pitchers can create. But as an alternative, I did suggest more ways to individualize pitchers' pitches. Zito and Prior have different curveballs. No, I'm not just talking about the speed or the amount of break. There are many factors to how the ball breaks, when it breaks, and kind of instantaneous break it has, etc.

[Casino]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

I still don't know if I can believe that the gyroball is a real pitch, because as far as I understand, it's a pitch with breaking ball/slider spin that won't break. I just don't see how that's physically possible, because the rotation of the ball and the way the seams cut through the air are pretty much what make the ball break. .

when i was trying to learn how to throw a slider, my pitch would have the correct spin but no break. i cant explain it but i saw it, and my catcher would tell me it had no break. i gave up trying to throw it. maybe it didnt have enough spin, i dont know.

[shttymcgee]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

Well, I was going to see if anybody was actually going to bring up the beach ball example. The difference here is in the mass of the objects. A baseball is just too heavy to have any type of upward curve to it, or rise (or even flattening out, for that matter). Like you and I both said... nobody can generate enough rotation on the ball to allow it to rise.

It looks like you and I are on the same page, but what I think is that the ball cannot "flatten out" either. I mean yes, I agree that they can throw a straight flat pitch, but that's as "upward" as you'll get in a pitch. As a matter of fact, people probably believe that it rises because flat pitches are almost unnatural. Nearly every pitcher has some sort of sink action in their pitch, no matter how much it is.



Anyway, creating a pitch would, like I said, be too much. First of all, the pitches need to be possible. I still don't know if I can believe that the gyroball is a real pitch, because as far as I understand, it's a pitch with breaking ball/slider spin that won't break. I just don't see how that's physically possible, because the rotation of the ball and the way the seams cut through the air are pretty much what make the ball break. The "creating pitches" would also have to do with gripping it, as well. Overall, I just don't really see what more pitchers can create. But as an alternative, I did suggest more ways to individualize pitchers' pitches. Zito and Prior have different curveballs. No, I'm not just talking about the speed or the amount of break. There are many factors to how the ball breaks, when it breaks, and kind of instantaneous break it has, etc.

On sportscenter last night, they were talking about dice-k and the guy said that his "gyroball" was a changeup with with screwball action.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

I think if they really do a feature like that then there must be some restrictions. I mean you have to make the pitch realistic.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

A baseball just doesn't rise given how hard pitches can throw and how much backspin they can physically impart on the ball. A pitcher can flatten the trajectory but the ball will always be arcing to some degree. It may look like it's exploding upward at the last second but it's not. When thrown by a sidearmer or submarine pitcher the ball may be going up toward the plate but it's not CURVING up. It's not a golf ball folks. =P

Also, MVP had a sort of pitch editor and I miss it. Just because a pitcher throws from a certain angle doesn't mean his pitch has to break a certain way and the current system seems to force it. Having power/normal/12C options is nice but not quite what it needs to be... especially when it comes to a pitch like the slider or c-change.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

On sportscenter last night, they were talking about dice-k and the guy said that his "gyroball" was a changeup with with screwball action.

A changeup with screwball action is a circle change. Pedro Martinez has thrown one for years and it's sort of a hybrid pitch. Keith Foulke's was another good example. They're thrown with the thumb and index finger together when gripping the ball, like an okay sign, and the result is some sidespin and reduced velocity.

Matsuzaka throws some weird stuff but his gyroball is not his changeup. He does throw a shuuto too which is sort of like this odd hybrid sinker/reverse-slider pitch that a number of guys throw in Japan. It breaks down and in as well. That could be confused with one type of gyroball. Remember, the pitch can move differently depending on how it's released so there are a lot of conflicting reports on the net.

My understanding is that Pedro's fastball is also very gyro-ish in that you see an eye in the middle of it instead of the seams spinning backward. There's no double spin mechanic in that pitch though. Guys like Will Carroll are starting to say that the pitch has been overhyped in general, that it's real, but not quite as demon-like as the hype would have you believe.

[Sandman42]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

isnt a shuuto just a slider?


and if it is then maddux's shuuto like fastball is just a cutter.

A shuuto is like a sinker, but with more break. Basically a cross between a sinker and a screwball. It's thrown harder than a screwball and breaks more than a normal sinker.

[Alai]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

Daisuke throws about 7 different pitches, that in itself will confuse any hitter.

[Scottdau]

Re: How about a Create-Your-Own-Pitch Feature?

Daisuke throws about 7 different pitches, that in itself will confuse any hitter.

If he can throw them for strikes!