Down with the Power Swing

Collapse

Recommended Videos

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Trevytrev11
    MVP
    • Nov 2006
    • 3259

    #1

    Down with the Power Swing

    I think they should get rid of the power swing.

    Think about it, most hitters try and hit the ball as hard as possible most of the time. Whether your the 2nd batter, the cleanup hitter or the 9th hitter, when your up to bat, your goal is to hit the ball as hard as possible (most of the time). If the pitcher hangs a curveball or serves a fastball down the middle of the plate, your going to try and hit the ball as hard as you possibly can.

    Because of this, I think they should drop the "power swing" and just make a slightly toned down version of it, the "normal swing".

    The swing David Ortiz uses when he grounds out on an 0-1 pitch has the same effort and force as the swing he uses when he hits that same 0-1 pitch out of the park. The difference is a result of aiming his swing and timing the pitch. The difference between a grounball and a HR is only an inch or two movement along the diameter of a baseball.

    Of course, there are some slap hitters in the game, but even they try to hit the ball hard most of the time, they just lack the power. A guy like Juan Pierre may not hit a lot of HR's, but he still tries to hit the ball hard, (most of the time).

    I say most of the time, because there are certain situations that dictate a more controlled swing; a swing that isn't as agressive. I'm talking about when most hitters shorten up with 2 strikes against them. Or when a hitter is told to hit and run and needs to put the ball in play. Or when there is a runner on second or third with less than two outs and your trying to advance the runner by hitting a groundball to the right side. These are situations when you would shorten up your swing and take a little off and sacrafice a little pop in order to put the ball in play.

    For this, I say offer a secondary contact swing. I say secondary, because it is not the default swing. However it is accomplished, it would require something different than the normal swing (either a different movement on the swing stick or it would require the press of a trigger while swinging).

    Risk vs Reward:
    Normal Swing:
    The obvious benefit of the normal swing is that when you make solid contact, you hit the ball harder than when you use contact. You get the benefit of extra bat speed which in turn leads to farther hit balls assuming equal contact. If programmed right, HR's would come at a natural rate and wouldn't require the use of a power swing to try and jack balls out of the yard.

    The Risk os the normal swing is your slightly less likely to make contact. You have less margin for error when compared to the contact swing. If your talking about zone hitting or cursor hitting or some combination, you would be required to be more exact with your aim in order to make solid contact. Also, when it comes to timing a pitch, you would have to be more exact in the window that exists of when you have to start your swing to make contact.

    Contact Swing:
    The benefit of the contact swing is that you are slightly more likely to make contact with the pitch. Again, using some sort of system, you would be required to be less exact on your aim of your swing in order to make contact. You'd still have to be close, but not as close as the normal swing. The same goes with timing. Would still be a window of when you have to start your swing to make contact, but you would have a slightly larger window.

    The risk is that you lose power. It would be very rare to hit a HR using a contact swing. My thought is that a contact swing is the swing you use when your just trying to put the ball in play. Your down 0-2 with a guy like Jason Kendall and your not trying to do anything but play a slighly advanced game of pepper.

    I would let the user have a few choices of how to differentiate the swings, but I was thinking
    a) Like the current SS's movements, Forward = Normal, let go=contact
    or
    b) SS forward for norma, R Stick + SS forward for contact. (I like this better because as a hitter you know ahead of time when your just trying to make contact and therefore can prepare yourself in advance).

    Agree/Disagree? Thoughts?
  • Trevytrev11
    MVP
    • Nov 2006
    • 3259

    #2
    Re: Down with the Power Swing

    To describe what I meant above about windows:

    There are 60'6" between the rubber and the plate.

    On a fastball, there is a certain point of where the ball is at when you have to start your swing in order to make contact. Say the window is from 40-50 (just making up numbers) on a typical fastball.

    If you swing before the ball reached 40' you will swing early and miss. If you swing after the ball is 50', you will swing late and miss.

    If you swing in the 40-45 range, you pull the ball, 46-54 range and you hit from gap to gap and 55-60 range you go opposite field.

    My thought is that this would by the range for a normal swing.

    With a contact swing, that range gets a little bigger, say 38' to 52'. This differentiates the two swings because you are now more likely to put the ball in play (the reward of using the contact swing).


    Now on the size of the cursor/hidden cursor, etc. It would be the same idea. When using a normal swing, your circle may have a 1' diamter. And when you use contact, it may expand to 1.5', again, making it easier to make contact.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I also thought that the window in which you swing would be determined by the pitch speed and slightly by the hitters ratings. A great hitter like Pujols would have the ability to adjust his swing to the pitch speed and therefor you would have a little more room for error.

    The size of the circle would be determined 50/50 on the rating of the pitcher and hitter. A great hitter vs a bad pitcher would result in the largest possible circle. A bad hitter vs a great pitcher would result in the smallest circle possible. Great vs Great or Bad vs Bad would result right in the middle.

    Again, this would then grow slightly bigger if you decided to use the contact swing.

    Final thought is that a contact swing would allow you to go out of the zone a little farther than a normal swing...but this would have to be programmed.

    Comment

    • Blzer
      Resident film pundit
      • Mar 2004
      • 42532

      #3
      Re: Down with the Power Swing

      I didn't get to read all of it yet, but I think there should just be one swing. No power, no contact, no normal... just one swing. That's all I have to say.
      Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

      Comment

      • deeman11747
        G-M*nnnn
        • Feb 2003
        • 3194

        #4
        Re: Down with the Power Swing

        Originally posted by Blzer
        I didn't get to read all of it yet, but I think there should just be one swing. No power, no contact, no normal... just one swing. That's all I have to say.
        I disagree. Blzer you should know as well as anyone that sometimes you just want to put the ball in play, such as in a hit and run, with 2 strikes on you, or with the infield back and a runner on 3rd.

        And since just releasing the stick feels kind of unnatural for a typical swing, the "pull back and push forward" mechanic should be for a normal swing and the "pull back and let go" should be for a "put the ball in play" swing instead of the useless defensive swing they have now. This way hitting will feel much more natural with the stick and we can get rid of the power swing.

        Comment

        • Blzer
          Resident film pundit
          • Mar 2004
          • 42532

          #5
          Re: Down with the Power Swing

          Originally posted by deeman11747
          I disagree. Blzer you should know as well as anyone that sometimes you just want to put the ball in play, such as in a hit and run, with 2 strikes on you, or with the infield back and a runner on 3rd.
          I understand, but you know as well as I do that 99.9% of all professionals do not begin playing pepper when they have two strikes. Yes, they may change their approach just the least bit, but nothing major. Some players will swing even harder.

          I just would prefer that we use one button, and that's it. I'd prefer letting go of the stick as being a check swing, like in MVP.
          Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

          Comment

          • Trevytrev11
            MVP
            • Nov 2006
            • 3259

            #6
            Re: Down with the Power Swing

            My whole thought was that you would use the regular swing 95% of the time. The only time you would really use that contact swing is when you are in those situations that I and deeman described with the player that you feel is appropriate.

            Bottom of the 9th, bases loaded with 1 out and your down 0-2. The last thing you want to do in that situation is strikeout, especially if you have a guy like Derrick Jeter at the plate. This is a situation where you sacrafice some power in fear of striking out. Also, this hit and run, the GB to the right side, etc.

            Blzr, worst case scenario for people who think like you do is that you just never use it. It's there for those that want it, but your're not losing out on anything. I still think for the fundamentals of execution, it's something that should be added.

            And I'd rather see this than the options they offer now.
            Last edited by Trevytrev11; 04-05-2007, 06:41 PM.

            Comment

            • Trevytrev11
              MVP
              • Nov 2006
              • 3259

              #7
              Re: Down with the Power Swing

              Originally posted by Blzer
              I understand, but you know as well as I do that 99.9% of all professionals do not begin playing pepper when they have two strikes. Yes, they may change their approach just the least bit, but nothing major. Some players will swing even harder.
              That is why it would be an option and not something done by the game. It's something you would use for a guy like Jason Kendall oo Juan Pierre or Joe Blow, the week hitting second baseman. It's not something you'd use with Frank Thomas or Albert Pujols. First, these are guys that aren't paid to just put the ball and second these aren't guys that are ever asked to hit and run or hit behind a runner.

              Comment

              • Blzer
                Resident film pundit
                • Mar 2004
                • 42532

                #8
                Re: Down with the Power Swing

                I just think that attributes should take the role in people doing this type of swing, and there should just be a rating that states how they change their approach with two strikes (like contact gain/power loss w/ 2 strikes attribute). One-button swinging and True-Aim hitting worked flawlessly (let me repeat... flawlessly) in ESPN MLB 2K4. That game most certainly needed more foul balls like every other game out there, but in that game I was very able to draw the walk, and hitters just plain hit like themselves.

                I still have yet to read what you said about the system though, I'm sorry. I did read the part about the zone at which you have to swing the bat, and I think that is sort of like what I wanted to have happen with a Patience rating, where a player with a higher rating would have a larger range (at least for an earlier swing) at which they'd be able to wait for the pitch just that much longer to hit it fair, hit it hard, or just hit it. A player with a 0 Patience rating is always swinging on the spot of when you press the swing button, and has no window but when you pressed the button. So Kendall, Vizquel, Blow, whomever... they can have higher ratings in this aspect I suppose.
                Samsung PN60F8500 PDP / Anthem MRX 720 / Klipsch RC-62 II / Klipsch RF-82 II (x2) / Insignia NS-B2111 (x2) / SVS PC13-Ultra / SVS SB-2000 / Sony MDR-7506 Professional / Audio-Technica ATH-R70x / Sony PS3 & PS4 / DirecTV HR44-500 / DarbeeVision DVP-5000 / Panamax M5400-PM / Elgato HD60

                Comment

                • baa7
                  Banned
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 11691

                  #9
                  Re: Down with the Power Swing

                  It's a fact that players can swing with power, or simply slap the ball in an effort to pick up a base hit, or move a runner over, etc. Getting rid of the power swing wouldn't be realistic. What needs to happen is Kush needs to program it properly. As it is now, it's an arcade feature, nothing more.

                  Comment

                  • Trevytrev11
                    MVP
                    • Nov 2006
                    • 3259

                    #10
                    Re: Down with the Power Swing

                    I just don't get the point of a "power swing" because that is just what happens most of the time. You try to hit the ball as hard as you possibly can. Griffey or Giambi don't come to the plate with anything else in mind. They don't try to slap a single through the 5 hole, they try to hit the ball hard and because of that they swing hard. It isn't something that they do only when they are ahead, it's what they do all the time even with 2 strikes. This is why these guys strike out 100+ times a year.

                    So call it what you want, but I want the default swing the one you use every time your not trying to shorten your swing. Call it normal, power, pro, hard, etc.I just think this accurately reflects what happens more realistically that what happens.

                    Comment

                    • Trevytrev11
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 3259

                      #11
                      Re: Down with the Power Swing

                      Originally posted by Blzer
                      I just think that attributes should take the role in people doing this type of swing, and there should just be a rating that states how they change their approach with two strikes (like contact gain/power loss w/ 2 strikes attribute). One-button swinging and True-Aim hitting worked flawlessly (let me repeat... flawlessly) in ESPN MLB 2K4. That game most certainly needed more foul balls like every other game out there, but in that game I was very able to draw the walk, and hitters just plain hit like themselves.
                      If you let the computer take over, then you're counting on them to accurately project what type of swing your trying to accomplish. In other words you may be trying to hit and run or choke up and poke a ball to the right side and the game decides that you will take your full swing.

                      Again, if you don't want to use it then you don't have to. No harm no foul, but if you want that extra control, then it's available.

                      Comment

                      • baa7
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2004
                        • 11691

                        #12
                        Re: Down with the Power Swing

                        Originally posted by Trevytrev11
                        So call it what you want, but I want the default swing the one you use every time your not trying to shorten your swing. Call it normal, power, pro, hard, etc.I just think this accurately reflects what happens more realistically that what happens.
                        Humm... now that's a great thought. You're right: having a secondary power swing is backwards. There should be a normal swing, and a second 'contact' swing for two strike situations and what have you. I agree I believe FPS baseball had that in 1998, BTW.

                        Comment

                        • bukktown
                          MVP
                          • Jan 2007
                          • 3257

                          #13
                          Re: Down with the Power Swing

                          I personally prefer 'one-swing' games, but if there has to be 2 swings, then the power swing should be less forgiving contact-wise then the contact swing. I dont really notice that in this game.

                          Comment

                          • Trevytrev11
                            MVP
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 3259

                            #14
                            Re: Down with the Power Swing

                            I just want to reiterate that you would use the normal/power/pro/what ever you want to call it swing 95% of the time. The contact/protect swing would be used in those special situations when your hitter is just trying to put the ball in play (protecting with 2 strikes, hit and runs, etc.)

                            It's not like 2K7 where you would power up in HR situations and use the contact type swing the rest of the time. Instead you would use the normal swing most of the time and only the contact in certain situations and even then it would come down to your philosophy.
                            Last edited by Trevytrev11; 04-05-2007, 09:16 PM.

                            Comment

                            • baa7
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2004
                              • 11691

                              #15
                              Re: Down with the Power Swing

                              Originally posted by Trevytrev11
                              I just want to reiterate that you would use the normal/power/pro/what ever you want to call it swing 95% of the time.

                              It's not like 2K7 where you would power up in HR situations and use the contact type swing the rest of the time.
                              Actually, from what I'm reading about the online crowd and from all the HR complaints, it sounds like most people swing using the power swing 95% of the time.

                              Comment

                              Working...