I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

[socalfan2708]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

I think the way hitting is going to work is based on timing and the players attributes. This is a good thing. you shouldn't be able to make rob quinlan hit better than vladdy over an entire season. It should be almost impossible. If you were able to influence swing placement, then you could make bad players play way better than they actually are. Now with this system it is going to make the good players do what they're suppose to do and bad ones what they're supposed to. So players like a-rod will have a better chance to hit
k-rods slider than say paul lo-duca or something. I dont know how this doesnt make it more "sim"? It may make it less fun but it will definately make it so you have players doing what they are supposed to do based on their hitting attributes.

[baa7]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

I think the way hitting is going to work is based on timing and the players attributes. This is a good thing. you shouldn't be able to make rob quinlan hit better than vladdy over an entire season. It should be almost impossible. If you were able to influence swing placement, then you could make bad players play way better than they actually are.

Every BB game since the dawn of time involves individual player attributes that affect the player's ability to make contact. That's a non-issue. Play 2K7 or play The Show 07. You'll be able to hit the ball a ton with the top players, whereas you'll have difficulty with the scrubs. So your theory here about zone hitting/influencing swing placement is incorrect, sorry.

[davewins]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

As for the hitting system, you can still make contact in The Show if you don't use the left stick. Trust me, I've tried and played many a game that way.

The problem is you have less a chance of making solid contact.

NoSkillz, the issue with no location over timing has nothing to do with hit placement. The Show does not try to replicate this falsehood in baseball. No one can place a ball where they want prior to a pitch. They can only influence it in a certain direction.

The Show's system is about placing the bat toward the location of the pitch to make more solid contact.

The system has it's strengths and weaknesses. Major strength is not making timing the only important factor. The major weakness is timing is not enough of a factor. Once you've become comfortable with placing the bat over the ball you make solid contact almost all of the time. That's my belief why hits become way too easy in The Show. But that's not a knock on the system. It's just a comment on what can be improved.

As for the comments on Mo's fastball. I'm going to argue that Mo's fastball isn't unhittable because it just moves. It's unhittable because it moves out of the strike zone and hitters don't adjust for that. So they end up getting jammed.

Basically, what I'm saying is that timing is still the most important factor in hitting. If you time your contact correctly with Mo's fastball you'll hit it on the good part of the bat without making too many location adjustments. It's either that or don't swing at all because it'll be a ball.

Obviously, his cutter looks like a fastball and that's why people swing. I'm not suggesting he's easy to face and figure out. But the principles are there. Similar to Maddux, it's not bat placement that hurts batters, it's the movement of the pitch that makes them believe he's throwing a ball to only see the two-seamer move back into the strike zone.

I guess what I'm saying is this. How much movement is a hitter really making to hit Brandon Webb's sinker? Not much. It's a matter of inches if they make solid contact or just hit the top of the ball into the ground. Either way, in video games you'll end up pressing down on the stick.

There's no way to clearly simulate location of the bat because it's not that extreme in swinging. Hitters will almost always generally swing the bat in the location of the pitch without thinking of where to place the bat. Timing is the most important aspect of hitting.


I know people usually bring up the curveball argument. Hitters with bad bat placement will swing over the top of the curve. True but not entirely true.

Think about it. If that hitter timed the curveball better what do you think will happen? The reason why the hitter swings over the curveball is because they swing early and their swing moves towad the start or mid-point of the curve's break. But you never see a hitter swing extremely over the top. It's always in the general area of the ball.

Now imagine this same scenario in video gaming. If the curveball is already moving toward the bottom of the strike zone you'll end up pressing down to make contact. No one sees how that's already an issue? If I press down I swing toward the curve. It's moving down. I'm swinging in the general area of the curve. Now it's up to timing and attributes to determine if I swung at the right time of that downward movement of my swing and whether or not the hitter is a good enough contact hitter to make solid contact rather than tipping the ball foul or missing it completely.

The point is simple. You'll still press down because the curve is moving down. Bat placement is a zone system that makes sense in the theory of it all but it doesn't make sense when thinking realistically. There is no hitter in the majors that will swing his bat upward to hit a curveball moving toward the dirt. It doesn't happen. Bat location is overrated in video gaming IF it doesn't make timing more important and include an attribute system that measures the ability to make solid contact.

That is why MVP 2005's system of contact (with the yellow balls that measure how long a player's bat can move through the zone and still make contact) was the best way to measure it. It wasn't perfect but they had the right idea.

Very well said.

I also agree with the last statement about MVP's "yellow balls". I thought for the longest time that they should simply increase the timing window ten fold. With the power of the next gen systems they could really make a realistic hitting engine with a series of various results based soley on timing if they of course increased the timing window ("yellow and green balls" MVP 2005). Also with using the analog stick for hitting there could in turn be different types of swings which opposed to button pressing there isn't. If say you are fooled on an offspeed pitch and you commit with the analog stick a little you will have more of a half swing (kind of like not keeping your hands back on the slow curve or offspeed). This could return in more realistic results as well and would be more rewarding when you do keep your "thumb" back on the stick on an offspeed pitch. An offspeed pitch can still fool a batter where he doesn't put his best swing on the pitch and still hit it very hard. Fastballs can't or at least can't as much.

[davewins]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

I just want to see some 2K videos so that we can see pretty much a final game and see what is REALLY in the game and what IGN just got to preview.

I want to play it myself LOL. Good videos will be better then those horrible ROOKIE level 1 on 1 kids throwing purpose meatballs up.

[davewins]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

i think it really needs to allow you to influence where you hit the ball.

dont you ever hear how many hitters try to pull an outside pitch when they should be going the other way with it? it happens all the time.

I think swinging early in a baseball video game is an attempt to pull the ball more so then pushing a left analog stick to the left or right depending on if the batter is righty or lefty.

It's simple. You swing early on pitches inside to pull the ball and you swing later on pitches outside to go the other way. If you are swinging too early on outside pitches you are too "pull minded".

[maverick3176]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

I'm not trolling I am a big fan of 2K baseball. Simply wondering if they even do have a system. Seems more so you just swing the bat and see where the ball goes.

this dude is right...its my biggest gameplay complaint

[NoSkillz50]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

First off, I'm not talking about aiming at where the ball is going to be in the zone, I'm talking about aiming where the ball is going to go. If you want to pull it you swing early, if you want to go opposite field you swing late, you don't angle your bat or anything weird to influence that. In MVP 05 you could pull a ball you did not get around on if you were hold the right direction. Sure it would be weak often times, but its not realistic to pull a ball you didn't even get around on. My point is we don't need anything to influence where the ball goes besides the timing. I said The Show the aiming was about how hard you hit it, not where you hit it. Where you hit it in The Show is still purely timing. The fact I forgot to say that where you aim can also influence if you completely miss the ball, but I think that detail is negligible and doesn't affect my argument really at all.

dont you ever hear how many hitters try to pull an outside pitch when they should be going the other way with it? it happens all the time.

Exactly, this is done through timing, not aiming/angling your bat that goes above and beyond the timing of your swing.

Can we all agree, at least for right now that which field you hit it to is soley based on timing. Forget about ground balls, fly balls, line drives, and just how hard the ball is hit. Does anybody think that hitting the ball left/middle/right should be influenced by anything else other than timing?

[maverick3176]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

I think the way hitting is going to work is based on timing and the players attributes. This is a good thing. you shouldn't be able to make rob quinlan hit better than vladdy over an entire season. It should be almost impossible. If you were able to influence swing placement, then you could make bad players play way better than they actually are. Now with this system it is going to make the good players do what they're suppose to do and bad ones what they're supposed to. So players like a-rod will have a better chance to hit
k-rods slider than say paul lo-duca or something. I dont know how this doesnt make it more "sim"? It may make it less fun but it will definately make it so you have players doing what they are supposed to do based on their hitting attributes.

this is silly we wouldnt use the same logic with pitchers...imagine if we only controlled pitch selection and let the computer determine location based on player ratings....user ability needs to play in otherwise I would just play a manager mode of a game. That way we would have very accurate results based solely on player ability ratings.

Also to address the issue about Mo's cutter. Mo barely walks peeps...his cutter is in the zone more often than not. With cursor hitting you could adjust for subtlies of bat placement...it wasnt just zone. True aim was cursor hitting but the cursor wasnt visible...just like pitching...there arent zone you are placing the pitch in a specific spot...just like in real life you swing at a specific spot...

now the argument about trying to pull the ball or not. with cursor and true aim...i could try to pull or go the opposite way on pitches by my timing and where I aimed the bat. I was very good in previous versions of the game at directing the ball. In real life...having a pull or opposite feild swing depends on where you make contact withh it.

Lets face it Swing stick is nice...but it needs more....if they just mixed swing stick and true aim...that would be the best all-around hitting system. I actually have another method using the rt trigger button that i think woudll be the most robust...but I know it will never happen at least anytime soon. If you are curious I will tell you.

[maverick3176]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

Noskillz I totally agree with your above comment. i think we as gamers should really make our complaints made very loud about hitting. It seems like they put alot of work into making it sim and giving the user control in every aspect pitching, feilding, throwing etc....but hitting, the most pivotal part of the game they totally disregarded. If there is ONE thing they change in 2K9 I hope its hitting...and we need to make that known. The hitting system is like putting a damn coffee stain on a new shirt...it just takes away from everythign else....especially because you spend about 1/2 the game hitting.

[davewins]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

First off, I'm not talking about aiming at where the ball is going to be in the zone, I'm talking about aiming where the ball is going to go. If you want to pull it you swing early, if you want to go opposite field you swing late, you don't angle your bat or anything weird to influence that. In MVP 05 you could pull a ball you did not get around on if you were hold the right direction. Sure it would be weak often times, but its not realistic to pull a ball you didn't even get around on. My point is we don't need anything to influence where the ball goes besides the timing. I said The Show the aiming was about how hard you hit it, not where you hit it. Where you hit it in The Show is still purely timing. The fact I forgot to say that where you aim can also influence if you completely miss the ball, but I think that detail is negligible and doesn't affect my argument really at all.



Exactly, this is done through timing, not aiming/angling your bat that goes above and beyond the timing of your swing.

Can we all agree, at least for right now that which field you hit it to is soley based on timing. Forget about ground balls, fly balls, line drives, and just how hard the ball is hit. Does anybody think that hitting the ball left/middle/right should be influenced by anything else other than timing?

I can agree.... See post #20

[PhantomPain]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

First off, I'm not talking about aiming at where the ball is going to be in the zone, I'm talking about aiming where the ball is going to go. If you want to pull it you swing early, if you want to go opposite field you swing late, you don't angle your bat or anything weird to influence that. In MVP 05 you could pull a ball you did not get around on if you were hold the right direction. Sure it would be weak often times, but its not realistic to pull a ball you didn't even get around on. My point is we don't need anything to influence where the ball goes besides the timing.

You are correct, timing is what should determine the direction of the batted ball. Unfortunately that only works in real life, or until they make hitting in a video game organic. What I mean is, in real life you can step up to the plate and think "I need to slap this to right so I can move this runner over" and then you look for that middle to outside pitch (righty batting) and then you swing slightly late so the ball has good contact on the wood and comes off solid. In a video game it is MUCH harder to do this for everyone. Sure some people may be great at timing their swing to the exact millisecond so they can slap that ball to right, but the majority of people don't have that kind of timing. So therefore there should be some sort of hitting aid if you truly want to push or pull the ball. Maybe even for grounders and pop-flies. But the penalty for the timing not being perfect should be greater if you are "trying" to influence the batted ball. In the Show you can use the right analog stick prior to pitch to say you want to slap that ball to right, then when the pitch comes you try and hit it with great timing. To me this is realistic in the fact that it is more of a mindset than an actual hitting aid. They will penalize you with soft hits, pop ups, or misses if your timing isn't correct or if you swing at an inside pitch and trying to send it to opposite field.

[socalfan2708]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

this is silly we wouldnt use the same logic with pitchers...imagine if we only controlled pitch selection and let the computer determine location based on player ratings....user ability needs to play in otherwise I would just play a manager mode of a game. That way we would have very accurate results based solely on player ability ratings.

Pitching is a completely different animal. You can't compare the two. Its like comparing field goal kicking to throwing to a receiver.

[PhantomPain]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

Can we all agree, at least for right now that which field you hit it to is soley based on timing. Forget about ground balls, fly balls, line drives, and just how hard the ball is hit. Does anybody think that hitting the ball left/middle/right should be influenced by anything else other than timing?

I agree with this statement completely but I also think there are situational times where you would come to the plate and "try" and influence the ball since the timing window is so small that not many people would be able to enjoy the game.

[davewins]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

You are correct, timing is what should determine the direction of the batted ball. Unfortunately that only works in real life, or until they make hitting in a video game organic. What I mean is, in real life you can step up to the plate and think "I need to slap this to right so I can move this runner over" and then you look for that middle to outside pitch (righty batting) and then you swing slightly late so the ball has good contact on the wood and comes off solid. In a video game it is MUCH harder to do this for everyone. Sure some people may be great at timing their swing to the exact millisecond so they can slap that ball to right, but the majority of people don't have that kind of timing. So therefore there should be some sort of hitting aid if you truly want to push or pull the ball. Maybe even for grounders and pop-flies. But the penalty for the timing not being perfect should be greater if you are "trying" to influence the batted ball. In the Show you can use the right analog stick prior to pitch to say you want to slap that ball to right, then when the pitch comes you try and hit it with great timing. To me this is realistic in the fact that it is more of a mindset than an actual hitting aid. They will penalize you with soft hits, pop ups, or misses if your timing isn't correct or if you swing at an inside pitch and trying to send it to opposite field.

Good post. I can agree with what you say. I think there should be 2 options. For the advanced gamers have it like it's going to be. Make it a challenge to hit it opposite field. So it's really rewarding. Things like LOOKING for a pitch in an at bat that you CAN go the other way with. And excecuting by swinging later. Actually doing it rather then pressing the right analog stick to the left with a right handed batter up and have something helping you. I do think that's good for the average and below average gamer but for someone that wants the true challenge I think it should be completley in the user's hand (no pun intended).

[NoSkillz50]

Re: I like the idea behind the hitting system for 2K8

Maverick, I don't see what your problem is. Do you think it will be too easy to hit a Rivera cutter for example because you won't have to guess where the break will be. Ultimately if you think it is going to end up one place and ends up another, you will probably time the swing improperly or just completely miss the ball or get jammed because it ends up on your hands. If Rivera doesn't get it out of the zone it can still be hit. The reason he can get away with doing it over the plate some times is also largely because not only is it a cutter, but it also serves as a high 90's fastball due to how hard he throws it.

I just think that overall it is more realistic to swing based on strike/ball and not based one where you think it is going through the zone. It isn't natural to hit like that, players automatically swing to the ball. Good hitters will adjust better mid-swing, bad players won't, hopefully the attributes will work appropriately. Even though Manny and Dunn may time a pitch exactly the same, Dunn might miss. The best way is too give them a timing window and just make bad contact players time the pitches better, in The Show it was still up to the player as much as the attributes to make contact by picking the right zone, it wasn't easier to read the pitch with a better player so that doesn't exactly seem like a more realistic option either.