New Pitching Mechanics

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  • stealyerface
    MVP
    • Feb 2004
    • 1803

    #1

    New Pitching Mechanics

    Okay, after watching the videos over and over, I am somewhat optimistic, and encouraged by some of the stuff I think I saw while breaking down the pitching portion of the videos. However, I have a few questions that might help make this system great, or be a total dud.

    1. I like how you get to see how the R-stick was manipulated on the last pitch. You can clearly see on some of the pitches, the stick was not brought back to the optimal spot to make the best pitch. In fact, on a couple of the pitches, you can see the path of the R-stick was way off-kilter, and if this is why the pitch became a "meatball", then I am optimistic that the risk-reward for making that tough pitch, and accurately mimicking the rotation will be a lot tougher than button mashing, and much more satisfying.....however....

    2. If you choose to pitch from the outfield view, i.e. the over-the-shoulder view of the pitcher, will the game reverse the view of the sliders and curveballs to accurately match up the spin to the new view? Or will a curveball be a curveball no matter what view you have, and more importantly, when pitching as a lefty, will you need to perform the opposite move on the R-stick in order to replicate the slider now shifting from a 2-8 spin to a 10-4 spin? I guess if 2K is really trying to incorporate a pitching model that is trying to make sure you are respectful of the pitch selection, as well as the pitch execution, they may as well get it right.

    3. Will I be able to manipulate the R-stick pitching model to get a desired movement on a pitch? What do I mean by that? Okay, I want to throw a change up to A-Rod, and I know that he does not like the ball to get in under his hands. In the game, a Change-up is thrown by pushing the R-stick forward to the 12:00 position, and then pulling it back for a 6:00 release. Now, if I am using the behind the pitcher view, and I want to throw a change up (as a righty) that starts on the inner half of the plate, and moves down and in under his hands, can I, ON PURPOSE, move the stick to the 12:00 position, and then, instead of 6:00, make the release point at say, 4:00? So, I effectively cut the change, and get the ball to move in on the righty. Same thing with someone who I have been throwing fastballs in to for the at- bat, now I want to start the ball on the outer black, but get the ball to move out of the strike zone to make him chase the 0-2 or 1-2 pitch that he recognizes as a fastball. I could easily just start it out of the zone with how I aim the pitch, but if the R-stick is really dictating the flight of the ball, I wonder that instead of it always being a "mistake" that causes the ball to move or wander, if I can do it purposely in order to give the pitch the movement I want? If so.... Then we are headed in the right direction.

    Thoughts? Comments?

    SYF
    "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD
  • Skyboxer
    Donny Baseball!
    • Jul 2002
    • 20302

    #2
    Re: New Pitching Mechanics

    As long as missing your mark doesn't always result in a "Meat" pitch it will be cool. That way we can easily get some walk stats.
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    • merff11
      Rookie
      • Jan 2008
      • 93

      #3
      Re: New Pitching Mechanics

      My guess is that they are not far along in terms of placing extra movement on the pitches. I love that idea and it may show its face in 2k9. I believe based on nothing but my gut, that like last years installment a cutter will cut based on rating of that pitch and effort. If you are off with the movement of the right analog stick it will be meat.
      My Friend Chris owns me in 2k8. Seriously, I suck.

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      Comment

      • stealyerface
        MVP
        • Feb 2004
        • 1803

        #4
        Re: New Pitching Mechanics

        Probably, but shouldn't there be at least varying degrees of "meat"? If I miss the mark by a little bit, the pitch ought not just sit fat in the middle of the dish to be swatted away like a salad at the Duke Cheerleader luncheon. They need to make the missed pitches an accurate simulation of just how badly you missed it. And again, if I am going to miss on accident, let me tweak the movement on purpose.

        SYF
        "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD

        Comment

        • merff11
          Rookie
          • Jan 2008
          • 93

          #5
          Re: New Pitching Mechanics

          Agreed, I think what you are saying would be awesome. Just not sure how long it will take them to make this system functional and realistic. Most major league pitchers don't miss there spot by a foot, at least not always. Not sure how they could replicate that.
          My Friend Chris owns me in 2k8. Seriously, I suck.

          Go Friars!

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          • maverick3176
            Banned
            • Mar 2005
            • 363

            #6
            Re: New Pitching Mechanics

            Originally posted by merff11
            My guess is that they are not far along in terms of placing extra movement on the pitches. I love that idea and it may show its face in 2k9. I believe based on nothing but my gut, that like last years installment a cutter will cut based on rating of that pitch and effort. If you are off with the movement of the right analog stick it will be meat.
            I think that is the way it should be. I otherwise you can make a guy who doesnt throw a 2-seamer be able to do that. or a guy who has a sweeping curve will have a dropping curve when in reality he doesnt have that pitch. I think that we should have the pitches the real-life counterpart throws. It would be interesting however, if EVERY pitcher was able to throw EVERY pitch...however, if you had Mariano throwing a curveball...it would just spin up there and get nailed.

            Also...dont think there should be meat pitches...maybe instead...pitches shoudl just miss their location...either to the center of the plate or out of the zone. Meat pitches in reality or pitches with little effort or effecitiveness thrown in the middle of the zone.
            Last edited by maverick3176; 01-28-2008, 03:15 PM.

            Comment

            • stealyerface
              MVP
              • Feb 2004
              • 1803

              #7
              Re: New Pitching Mechanics

              I am not saying that they give a pitcher a pitch he does not have. Just let us move that pitch around based on the release point. In real life, I throw a 2-strike curve ball, and a get-it-over curve when I am behind in the count. I hold the ball the same way, but I release it and snap it differently. What I meant in the post was that if the pitcher has a certain pitch, we should be able to at least dictate the movement without it either being:
              A: A perfectly executed pitch
              B: A meatball.

              I would like to see some variables go into the effectiveness, and thereby have the pitch react accordingly.

              The other thing that goes along with this is the Variable Strike Zone and badd calls on the basepaths. One of the GREAT features that I hope Benny-boy brought over with him was the possibility that that pitch on the corner could go either way. Plus, maybe that play at third was an incorrect one as well. This gave a great dynamic to the game that I sure hope is there for the 2k8 version. Variable Strike Zone is a feature that must not be overlooked.

              SYF
              "Ain't gonna learn what you don't wanna know"....GD

              Comment

              • CMH
                Making you famous
                • Oct 2002
                • 26203

                #8
                Re: New Pitching Mechanics

                Originally posted by merff11
                Agreed, I think what you are saying would be awesome. Just not sure how long it will take them to make this system functional and realistic. Most major league pitchers don't miss there spot by a foot, at least not always. Not sure how they could replicate that.
                Like the post you commented on, I think as we all learn to get better at mimicking pitches we'll see less meatball pitches. At least I hope that it works by throwing the pitch off by as much as your gesture is off.

                If that's true then the better we get the more likely we'll all end up missing spots by inches (like real life) rather than leaving meatballs over the plate.
                "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

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                • King Gro23
                  MVP
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 2548

                  #9
                  Re: New Pitching Mechanics

                  it doesnt matter the camera its based on a left hander or right handed pitcher righty curveball is a righty curball no matter the cam and same with lefty
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                  • King Gro23
                    MVP
                    • Jan 2008
                    • 2548

                    #10
                    Re: New Pitching Mechanics

                    I dont like how it becomes a meatball all the time is should just be wild because you mess up and its pretty much an easy home run meatballs are overrated how many times do you see real meatballs like 2k idk if yall caught on but in the TULO homer video on ign the pitcher throws a curve and it becomes a meatball and it looks like a chang/fastball low and it has no curve is should just become a hanging curve ...anyone agree?
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                    • CMH
                      Making you famous
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 26203

                      #11
                      Re: New Pitching Mechanics

                      Originally posted by King Gro23
                      I dont like how it becomes a meatball all the time is should just be wild because you mess up and its pretty much an easy home run meatballs are overrated how many times do you see real meatballs like 2k idk if yall caught on but in the TULO homer video on ign the pitcher throws a curve and it becomes a meatball and it looks like a chang/fastball low and it has no curve is should just become a hanging curve ...anyone agree?
                      Well, yea, but I think that's what we are waiting on. We don't know how badly IGN messed up the pitches. It looked to me like they had no clue how to play.

                      So we'll see if a meatball is the result of a bad pitch even if you miss slightly. If it is, there better be a slider to reduce meatballs because I wn't be happy.
                      "It may well be that we spectators, who are not divinely gifted as athletes, are the only ones able to truly see, articulate and animate the experience of the gift we are denied. And that those who receive and act out the gift of athletic genius must, perforce, be blind and dumb about it -- and not because blindness and dumbness are the price of the gift, but because they are its essence." - David Foster Wallace

                      "You'll not find more penny-wise/pound-foolish behavior than in Major League Baseball." - Rob Neyer

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                      • King Gro23
                        MVP
                        • Jan 2008
                        • 2548

                        #12
                        Re: New Pitching Mechanics

                        well if you check out the video when wang strikes out papi all his pitches are perfect the grey circle then the color circle the meatball pitches the entire circle blinks red the good pitches are yellow or green pending on how good and it is a super small color circle in the grey circle ... lol you get what im saying?
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                        • merff11
                          Rookie
                          • Jan 2008
                          • 93

                          #13
                          Re: New Pitching Mechanics

                          I agree on the whole meat ball issue. Just because you are off during the pitch mechanic doesn't mean you rpitch is weak, it means you missed your spot. A bad pitch can show up so the hitter knows the location, I'm fine with that punish a bad pitch, but that doesn't mean a Joel Zumaya 100+mph fastball is less effective because he missed his spot. Pitch should still have the same pitch rating, just reveal the actual location for punishment. Sounds like double dipping by revealing location and making it easier to hit a dinger.
                          My Friend Chris owns me in 2k8. Seriously, I suck.

                          Go Friars!

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                          • maverick3176
                            Banned
                            • Mar 2005
                            • 363

                            #14
                            Re: New Pitching Mechanics

                            Originally posted by stealyerface
                            I am not saying that they give a pitcher a pitch he does not have. Just let us move that pitch around based on the release point. In real life, I throw a 2-strike curve ball, and a get-it-over curve when I am behind in the count. I hold the ball the same way, but I release it and snap it differently. What I meant in the post was that if the pitcher has a certain pitch, we should be able to at least dictate the movement without it either being:
                            A: A perfectly executed pitch
                            B: A meatball.

                            I would like to see some variables go into the effectiveness, and thereby have the pitch react accordingly.

                            The other thing that goes along with this is the Variable Strike Zone and badd calls on the basepaths. One of the GREAT features that I hope Benny-boy brought over with him was the possibility that that pitch on the corner could go either way. Plus, maybe that play at third was an incorrect one as well. This gave a great dynamic to the game that I sure hope is there for the 2k8 version. Variable Strike Zone is a feature that must not be overlooked.

                            SYF
                            ok...i see what you mean...but think that we do have control over the effectiveness...but I think what you are talking about would make the control over effectiveness more like real-life pitching...which is a good idea.

                            as far the variable strike zone...i couldnt agree more

                            Comment

                            • I_Love_Piazza
                              Rookie
                              • May 2003
                              • 147

                              #15
                              Re: New Pitching Mechanics

                              My guess is that it's extremely difficult to throw a meatball if you only use half effectiveness. So if you want to throw a get it over curveball, you would just have to lose the effectiveness. Then if you wanted to throw a splitter in the dirt 0-2, you would throw a half-effective splitter so that you guarantee that it goes in the dirt. Less likely that they swing but make it impossible for you to hang it and get hit.

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